There are a lot of things we do differently than 3.x and while we've taken a lot of inspiration from Den ideals, there are things that we do differently than perhaps common wisdom would indicate - there are things that we do that may make a turn take longer but increase engagement at the same time (like rolling initiative every round). There are times where you might go last in a round, then go first the next round. A lot of the decisions that people make in 3.x knowing the turn order disappear; if your companion went before the BBEG in Round 1, you can't count on him to do so in Round 2, so you can't reliably just expect your companion to finish him off. Those types of things are only tangential to death and damage, but they do impact the way fights play out.ETortoise wrote:I wish you would have shared this in the "How Does Your Heartbreaker Handle Damage?" thread. Wait, there's still time!DeadDmWalking wrote:At 1st level, it is 50/50, and characters have roughly 2x as many hit points as their 3.x counterpoint. VP increases like 3.x (a fixed amount based on class plus CON); WP increase by WP only.
So if a class has 10 HP, and a character has a +4 CON, they'd have 14 WP/14VP at 1st level; 18/28 at 2nd level, and 22/42 at 3rd level. Damage scales faster than 3.x, but a character can expect to survive usually 2 of 3 hits in WP; they do suffer some combat penalties when wounded but we've tried to balance the 'death spiral' so it doesn't completely make you ineffective but it creates an incentive to withdraw from combat.
In all seriousness, if you have the time, I'd appreciate it if you'd do a deeper explanation of your damage system, the healing effects, and the ways the system has affected gameplay when compared with vanilla D&D.
Specifically regarding a character's ability to withstand attacks, we use a combination of VP (Vitality Points) and WP (Wound Points). VP is a fixed value based on class (6/8/10/12) with a bonus based on Endurance (equivalent to Constitution). We use positive values only so everyone gets extra VP; this is applied per level. If you received 12 VP at 1st level, you'll get 12 more at 2nd level (total 24), and 12 more at 3rd level (total 36). Wound Points advance more slowly, you get the same number of WP as you do VP at 1st level, but after that you just receive your CON bonus. If you received 12 VP at 1st level because you had a class that provided 10 VP per level and a +2 Endurance you would have 12 WP at 1st level; 14 WP at 2nd level, and 16 WP at 3rd level.
We're involved in several campaigns at a time, giving the GM a chance to take a break. For the campaign we played last the characters are 3rd level; they have: 22 WP/34 VP; 26 WP/42 VP;l 25 WP/41 VP; and 18 WP/30 VP. Compared to Vanilla D&D, that's a fair increase - a standard 3.x character probably has somewhere around 25 hit points.
Damage in our system increases relatively quickly compared to 3.x. Just about every class gets extra dice of damage (like Sneak Attack). We also have a few tweaks that potentially increase damage generally like weapons dealing a higher base amount, all characters having a positive attribute to weapon damage (we don't have negative modifiers). Characters are also more likely to hit than 3.x equivalents. In 3.x a 5th level rogue might feel pretty good with a +8 (I used this site and generated NPCs with a +2 to +8 bonus at 5th level). My 5th level two-weapon-fighting rogue has a +13/+9 dealing 1d8+4 without sneak attack and 4d8+11 with sneak attack (on each attack). Defenses are a little higher than 3.x (mostly because we have only positive attribute modifiers), but I'm much closer to 50% on a primary attack even before feints, flanking or other attack bonuses. Flanking is easier (each ally adjacent to your target provides a +1) and I have a feat that gives me a +2 for each flanker (up to a maximum of +8). There are fewer 'missed attacks' in our system than generally is true with 3.x.
At 1st level this character would have done 1d8+4 or 2d8+10 on a sneak attack. At 1st level she would have had 11 WP/11 VP; at 5th level it is 31/55. Assuming average sneak attack damage, in a mirror match she'd probably wound herself with a single attack at 1st level; but she'd be highly unlikely to take her out in a single blow. Despite the increased hit points and damage, surviving 1-2 sneak attacks is the best you could hope for. At 5th level with the average damage of 29 we're talking about taking 3 hits. We have a small amount of Damage Reduction from armor (2 in this character's case) so it often gets you 1 more hit that you can take. In this case, getting to a position where I can't get Sneak Attack is smart; in a mirror match without sneak attack she could survive 10+ attacks. Since damage generally increases in proportion to hit points, equal level opposition tends to feel about the same at low-levels and mid-levels. You quickly outclass low-level opposition - at 5th level I can reliably drop a 1st level character most of the time. A character with a bigger weapon, good strength and cleave will do a number on them. Across a variety of levels it means we can have appropriate numbers of mooks without having skeletal archers take over combat. However, even a relatively small number of opponents that are 2nd or 3rd level will 'slow us down'. This gives the GM more tools to design encounters to feel differently based on how tough they are, how hard they hit.
When someone attacks you, it typically applies to VP first. When you run out of VP it rolls into your WP. As soon as you take ANY WP damage, you are 'wounded' and generally suffer a -4 to every d20 roll including saves, attacks, initiative, etc. That's still significant for attacks, but it really makes a difference on saves. That's the worst effect you get from damage - there are no increasing penalties for various levels of wounded.
Most spell-casters have access to one or two schools of spells at low-levels, and not all of them choose to have access to the 'best healing school'. There are some healing spells in different schools (like a few in Necromancy). At 1st level, healing spells only provide a VP bonus - if you've been wounded it can give you the ability to stay in the fight without dropping, but it won't remove the Wound Penalty. At 2nd level there are spells that convert VP into WP; if you've been wounded in combat it typically requires giving you VP as a 1st step, then converting it to WP as a 2nd step. It's with 3rd level spells that you really begin to be able to heal wounds directly in combat.
Since VP are easy to heal and represent luck/fatigue but not REAL wounds, if your party survives a fight without taking Wound damage you're likely to be able to keep pressing on with either a short rest or no rest (we don't use short rest/long rest nomenclature - each hour of rest gives you a specific amount of VP, but you must rest 8 hours to heal any WP under normal circumstances). There are other resources you can expend in a fight including mana (the ability to cast spells and use certain class abilities for ALL classes) and Action Points (they basically let you take 10 on a failed check if taking 10 would let you pass). People often spend an Action Point to pass a saving throw, or to hit on their attack if they roll a 5 or a 6. Action Points can also let you heal WP with a heal check.
Even if a character is wounded, if they get full on VP it's probably worth adventuring - they're at a penalty on their actions, but they're not likely to die just because we get in a fight. Generally speaking, we don't have issues with the '5-minute day'. If a fight is particularly tough, multiple people are wounded and resources are low, it might be worth a longer rest, but there are certainly times and places where a longer rest isn't an option. Currently, it feels like we're at a 'sweet spot' for balancing these issues.
Even with the higher number of hit points, characters are never 'perfectly safe'. The 'extra damage' for a critical hit' is applied directly to WP. I mentioned my 5th level rogue dealing 4d8+11 damage with a sneak attack; if that attack was a critical, the base damage would be applied to VP as normal. The critical damage of 1d8+4 would apply directly to wounds. That's not GREAT damage, but a 5th level berserker in my party does 2d10+12 to your WP on a critical hit. That almost certainly would have dropped me outright at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level. At 4th level (26 WP) with a good roll I'd be in trouble.
With hits being significant, a fair bit of magic works by dealing hit point damage. A berserker and a wizard both attacking someone can combine damage to knock them out quickly. A lot of spells are also associated with making you more resistant to attacks (like providing temporary VP), giving you protection against criticals (Fortification), providing a temporary boost to Defense, or applying a penalty to your target. Picking one 3rd level spell at random, there's a Necromancy spell that can do 4d4 damage to WP when you get access to the spell (it scales) and a successful Endurance check converts that to VP damage instead. The target MUST have taken damage before you can cast the spell on them. At the same level there is a spell that does 6d8 damage with an Endurance check or be stunned.
We are trying to avoid 'caster edition', but we may not have approached it the way most people prefer. Every class, no matter how mundane, can get spells and spell casting based on their character level. At 3rd level, every class has a Caster Level of at least 1 - there are class abilities that raise your CL(so a 1st level wizard has a CL of 1). If you didn't take any Wizard levels you don't automatically learn any spells. There's a feat that gives you all the Cantrips of a particular school and 1 spell (and +1 CL to a maximum), so if you want to be a Gnome that speaks to animals, you take this feat, you get earth cantrips, and one other spell (maybe keen edge or a spell that lets you do acid damage with a touch). If you don't care about the cantrips, and you don't care about the CL boost, there's another feat that lets you learn 3 spells. My 5th level rogue doesn't have any magic, but at any point I could learn magic. At 6th level she'll have CL 2 if I don't do anything - if I wanted to spend two feats I could get a +1 CL and pick up Darkness, a 3rd level spell, and See in Darkness, a 2nd level spell, and a couple other spells. I'd have to 'retrain' one of my existing feats if I wanted to do that right away at 6th level, but that's the kind of option I have to make sure I can more reliably stab my enemies and they can't stab me... The fact that I can cross-train as a spellcaster with (a very small number) of level-appropriate spells at any time helps keep classes relevant. A number of our players have multi-classed wizard and another class; wizard gives you some of the feats and spell casting abilities for free, as well as more known spells as class-features.
Since Hit Points represent the major way a character continues to participate in an adventure, there are a lot of ways that things interact with them (giving/healing damage) but there are also a lot of things that directly deal with effects that are not damage specific (fear, stunning) or indirectly help (making you more likely to avoid an attack). Stabbing fools in the face remains the generally best course of action but we've tried to create a lot of tactical choices around that so very few characters do the exact same thing every round (or if they do, it feels like it's really effective and they're enjoying cleaving 6 enemies at a time).
I should also mention that we use AoO, and there are a number of ways you can get an out-of-turn attack. My rogue has a class ability (Dirty Fighting) that among other things (like blinding an opponent) can instead provoke from all of my allies. There are feats that give you an AoO under certain conditions (like someone hits you, or alternatively, someone MISSES you). Players tend to be engaged and look for opportunities to use special abilities. They do tend to change the way fights go...
For example, we recently fought an enemy with a Retributive Strike ability. One of our characters had the same ability. We could have tried to switched to range attacks (that would have prevented the BBEG from using his ability) or we could get him to use his AoO in melee and overwhelm him with MORE AoO from our side.
Happy to answer any additional questions.
