Weird Builds (Initially Pokemon Based)

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Prak
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Weird Builds (Initially Pokemon Based)

Post by Prak »

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Artist: Lluis Abadias

I saw this image on Twitter today and.... I wanna play a Beedrill in D&D. So I started looking into how to do that.

The first thing I looked at was the lance, and whether there was a one-handed lance-like weapon that would mean you don't need Monkey Grip. I found that, if you're mounted, the lance is a one-handed weapon. Obviously this is based on the fact that, when a knight was using a lance, they would rest the business end of it on their mount. But the rules don't say anything about that, they just say that if you're mounted, the lance is a one handed weapon.

So now we need a mount, preferably something bee-like, and even more preferably, not actually a mount, just something that lets you interact with those rules.

There are a few ways to do that. One is to have a magic item you ride, such as a totally-not-a-broom of flying. Or maybe you enchant your pants with phantom steed and argue with your GM.

But, I would argue that the best way to do this is to be a centaur, because the centaur rules actually specifically say that centaurs deal double damage on a lance charge, as if they were mounted. This basically implies that centaurs count as being mounted. You can point to further rules reflecting this, such as Savage Species p109, which says "even centaur characters benefit from the later feats (of the Mounted Combat feat tree)" and Races of Faerun p132, which says "(...) centaurs can acquire the Spirited Charge and Trample feats (ignoring the prerequisites) and apply the benefits to their own melee attacks."

Ok, but that doesn't fit the aesthetic, now does it? So instead of literally being a centaur, you play a apitaur. That is to say, you use the Tauric template to be a bee-centaur. Or a wasp. If you want speed, you go with the giant bee and never use your stinger (or you argue with the GM about it), if you want a usable stinger, you use the giant wasp. The Giant Bee will give you 3 HD, while the Giant Wasp will give you 5 HD. You can get your hymenoptera on a couple of ways. One is wish, it's probably the simplest way. You just use your preferred method of getting a wish (summon an efreet, sacrifice some schmuck and get a 50 Kn. Religion, whatever). Another way is to use a Ritual of Unlearning/Vitality to swap your levels/XP for the ECL of a Bee/Wasp Tauric creature. This has the complication of needing to know what the hell the ECL of a Bee/Wasp Tauric creature is. So, if you can get it, wish is your best option. If you can't, because your GM is a dick and you know he'll twist your wish, or they're just reticent to let you get a wish, then, let's say that being a giant bee or giant wasp tauric creature has an ECL of CR+1. This means that it'd cost you 1000xp to become a giant bee taur, or 6000xp to become a giant wasp taur. It'll be easier to compare the two in a table:
Giant BeeGiant Wasp
SizeMediumLarge
Speed20 ft, Fly 80 ft (Good)20 ft, Fly 60 ft (Good)
Natural Armor+2+4
AttackSting 1d4, poison*Sting 1d3**, poison
Poison1d4 Con1d6 Dex
Ability Mods+4 Dex+8 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con
Skills (if you care)+4 Spot+8 Spot

*and argue with your GM about your badass adventurer not auto-dying because they stung someone
**Iunno why a larger bug has a smaller damage die

Giant Wasp is honestly probably more worthwhile overall. 20 ft of fly speed isn't really a big deal.

Ok, so now, you're an adventurer with a giant wasp for an ass. And you argue with the GM about how your centauroid body lets you use lances one handed for double damage on a charge. You, of course, take two-weapon fighting, and have two big-ass lances. You take Spirited Charge and Ride-by Attack, and now you're charging people, dealing two 3d8+~12 attacks, flying past them, and doing that every round.

What class are you? Well, Knight would fit the aesthetic, but I feel like the Knight Code doesn't fit a beedrill inspired character. Beedrills are totally pack ambush attackers. Duskblade would not be a terrible class choice, and when you can afford it, it lets you wear mithral full-plate and have no arcane spell failure. I'd forgive someone for wanting to go Cavalier, but... I just don't think it actually does enough for this character. Deadly Charge is nice, but... it just gives you an extra multiplier on your lance charge over Spirited Charge, a few times a day, and it doesn't stack with Spirited Charge, it requires you to have mounted combat feats, rather than helping you get them instead of spending your limited feats, is very focused on having a literal mount, and, again, it doesn't fit the whole Beedrill thing. Honestly, going Duskblade, then prestige classing into Abjurant Champion is... not a bad idea. You fly around, hitting people with your shocking grasp channeling lances, and you get slightly better abjuration armor buffs.

Also, I could totally see just being a barbarian. It seems really fitting.

Outside of martial classes, I could also see just being a warlock, even if it means spending another feat for lance proficiency. Quicken Spell-like Ability is amazing for a warlock and... well, it does interesting things when you're quickening Hideous Blow, because Hideous Blow specifically says that you make an attack. So you charge, cast a Quickened Hideous Blow for 3(lance)+Eldritch Blast damage, and then use a normal casting of Hideous Blow for... 3(lance)+Eldritch Blast damage. This presents the interesting question of what you're doing before you get your wasp-ass, but, I mean, you could just be a spear-wielding warlock who stabs people with evil fire until you can beseech the bee-gods to gift you a wasp-ass. I feel like there are some strong aesthetic options here. Baleful Utterance becomes an evil buzzing that shatters shit. Hungry Darkness becomes a cloud of unusually large wasps, bonus points if you unhinge your jaw and disgorge the swarm for ~Aesthetic~. Giant wasps and bees weirdly don't get a climb speed, so you use Spiderwalk. Devil's Sight and See the Unseen give you crazy bug eyes for their durations. About the only Greater invocation I consider fitting for this concept is Vitriolic Blast, so jumping out of Warlock after level 7 is a very defensible choice. If your GM will at least consider Tome stuff, Lurker in the Swarm would be quite fitting, if you can meet the spellcasting requirement. Perhaps making Vampiric Touch a lesser invocation (if you need to convince a GM that an invocation which mimics a specific spell is the same as being able to cast a spell for requirements, Complete Arcane p72 explicitly says this). If you're in a game using tome stuff, you also take the Veteran of the War background so you don't have to use a feat to get lance proficiency and some better armor.
Last edited by Prak on Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Archmage »

I found this concept hilarious enough that I don't mind how much GM fiat/cooperation it would take to make it work. A+ wasptaur.
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Post by Prak »

Haunter Mage

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Ok, so, one of my favorite pokemon is Haunter. The aesthetic is pretty easy to accomplish, you just have a character that uses Graz'zt's Long Grasp. Preferably, you have a magic item that gives you the spell as a permanent effect. I suggest a shrug that basically makes your arms disappear/ethereal leaving you with empty space between the shoulder and hand. But people might find that dumb. Warlock could be a candidate, but the Disembodied Hand invocation specifically says you can only have it active on one hand. You could, hypothetically, ask your GM for a Deformity feat which says you cut off your hands and bound them to you in a manner similar to GLG, but, meh.

So, class-wise, I say either Sorcerer or, if Pathfinder's on the table, Witch. You focus on debuffs, especially fear. For prestige classes, Nightmare Spinner is a good option, as is Dread Witch if you can secure frequent exposure to fear effects for yourself. Maybe your Haunter Shrug also continually casts Fear on you. You just have to be exposed to a fear effect, so being a Nightmare Spinner/Dread Witch is a valid option, even tho Nightmare Spinner gives immunity to fear.

There is the potential for using Tainted Scholar, too. This is not supposed to be used by PCs, but that's pretty much only enforced by the fact that too much taint gives you a terminal case of The Deads. And Undead and creatures with the Evil subtype are immune to the negative effects of taint. After digging around, it looks like the most optimal choice for this is the Necropolitan from Libris Mortis. Apparently they don't want you getting the (Evil) subtype from templates. The most aesthetic choice is to be a Mortis deathtouched from Drg313. It makes you a Native Outsider with no subtype, but you might be able to argue with your GM that it should have it, or that half-undead and deathtouched should be considered undead for Taint purposes.

You might also be able to convince your GM to just let you pick up immunity to the negative effects of taint for a feat or something. There is already the Pure Soul feat which makes you completely immune to taint, so something like Damned Soul or Baleful Soul that just lets you accumulate taint as if you were an evil outsider would be pretty in-line.

If breaking the game with taint is off the table, then just being a Sorcerer/Nightmare Spinner/Dread Witch is still pretty damned good.

Another option that occurs to me is to be a spellcaster that focuses on the "*ing Hand" spells, and maybe other spells that specifically conjure hands. This is less a specific build than an esoteric spell selection, but it's not a bad idea (and it shouldn't be mutually exclusive to the above fear caster). You'd be looking at the following spells:

1st
Bigby's Helpful Hand (PHB2)
Bigby's Tripping Hand (PHB2)

2nd
Bigby's Slapping Hand (CM)
Bigby's Striking Fist (PHB2)
Bigby's Warding Hand (PHB2)
Spectral Hand (PHB)

3rd
Bigby's Disrupting Hand (PHB2)

5th
Bigby's Interposing Hand (PHB)

6th
Bigby's Forceful Hand (PHB)

7th
Bigby's Grasping Hand (PHB)

8th
Bigby's Clenched Fist (PHB)

9th
Bigby's Crushing Hand (PHB)
Crushing Fist of Spite (BOVD)

If you're particularly interested in the Bigby spells, I suppose you could take Argent Savant, but you're better off taking Dread Witch or Nightmare Spinner, imo.
Last edited by Prak on Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Prak »

Archmage wrote:I found this concept hilarious enough that I don't mind how much GM fiat/cooperation it would take to make it work. A+ wasptaur.
I mean, if you want to go with absolutely no "mother may I?" then I suppose you could pick up a couple of punching daggers, fluff them appropriately, and go to town as an esoterically flavored two-weapon fighter.

As a side note, I personally love the beedrill knight idea so much, along with the Haunter Witch idea I just added, that I'm now going to be trying to convince someone to run a game where everyone's just pokemon-inspired characters.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Iduno »

Prak wrote: As a side note, I personally love the beedrill knight idea so much, along with the Haunter Witch idea I just added, that I'm now going to be trying to convince someone to run a game where everyone's just pokemon-inspired characters.
Optimally, you'd want a GM who would encourage you to go weirder, instead of less weird. The wasptaur is inspired. Having flight early means the wasp looks overpowered, but that's effectively negated (in combat, where it matters most) by making a melee character, so the ECL shouldn't need to be too punishing.
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Re: Weird Builds (Initially Pokemon Based)

Post by Emerald »

Prak wrote:Ok, but that doesn't fit the aesthetic, now does it? So instead of literally being a centaur, you play a apitaur. That is to say, you use the Tauric template to be a bee-centaur.
[...]
Another way is to use a Ritual of Unlearning/Vitality to swap your levels/XP for the ECL of a Bee/Wasp Tauric creature. This has the complication of needing to know what the hell the ECL of a Bee/Wasp Tauric creature is. So, if you can get it, wish is your best option. If you can't, because your GM is a dick and you know he'll twist your wish, or they're just reticent to let you get a wish, then, let's say that being a giant bee or giant wasp tauric creature has an ECL of CR+1. This means that it'd cost you 1000xp to become a giant bee taur, or 6000xp to become a giant wasp taur. It'll be easier to compare the two in a table:
If your DM is leery about the craziness and vagueness that is the Tauric template and is willing to extrapolate the counts-as-mounted rules to other hexapodal creatures, you could play an abeil, which is an existing variety of apitaur:
Image
The Abeil Vassal has LA +4, comparable to your Giant-Wasp-CR-plus-1 suggestion, and comes with Poison Improved Grab, and Wing Drone abilities to match the theme.
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Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

This reminds me of a fakemon I saw written up for PTU once.

Image

I don't think this art is actually meant to represent it, though. Here's the actual description:
Swarmori are not one being, but rather, a swarm of incredibly small ghostly insects, each with its own painful stinger. Though you'll never find one of Swarmori's insects alone, they can stretch and compress their buzzing hive-form with ease.
It's an even stupider and crazier version of what you're going for. I doubt you'll be able to get away with playing a swarm of bug ghosts, though.
Last edited by The Adventurer's Almanac on Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koumei »

I totally get that this is about jumping through weird hoops to make things, as part of an interesting exercise, but I'll point out that an Abeil Soldier is "probably around level 7, especially if you do the thing where you pretend the monster had the Elite Array and thus its ability scores are 'only' +6 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis" and the Advespa is "around level 6 but note that it has a kind of annoying Regeneration".

They both have a prestige class available to take them to the hypothetical 20th level in some document made by someone who is awesome and stylish and has great taste in music. The former gets to be a big flying fighter with some rage-type stuff, Beedrill's Fell Stinger attack, powerful venom and the ability to fuck with ghosts a bit. The latter gets to summon legions and cast group buffs/healing and a couple of "fuck your army" attacks, as well as growing tyranid bone swords. It's the bee's knees wasp's shins, I tell you.
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