Still more Threads that make us Laugh, Cry, or Both

Tydanosaurus · Post by **Tydanosaurus** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:24 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:
Tydanosaurus wrote:We're going to have to disagree here. I don't see them as at all the same.
"This game has no GM."
"Cool."
"Now, my piece is this adventurer, and his piece is this adventurer, and her piece is this adventurer."
"Where's my adventurer?"
"Oh, you (and only you) aren't part of the adventuring team. You play the opposition. Your pieces are all these monsters. Plus, you'll be in charge of the dungeon's traps. And you keep certain information secret from the rest of the players."
"But that's a GM. You said there was no GM."
"Nope, that's an Overlord. Overlords have more limited authority and compete with the adventurers for points."
"That's still a GM."

"OK, in this adventure, you two play good characters. You run an adventuring team:
"Cool!"
"And you two play evil PC's who control a dungeon. YOu'll play various monsters and other creatures."
"Gee, am I the GM?"
"No. I'm the GM."
"Wow, I thought the GM only ran the monsters."
"No, it turns out the GM does more than run the monsters. In this adventure, I'm going to interpret the rules and tell you what happens, and you're going to run the monsters. And there may be random events that disrupt all your plans. That's the role of the GM in D&D. "

* * *

I've played adventures like that. You, obviously, haven't. Do you think, maybe, the problem is that you don't actually know the difference between a player and a GM? Actually, now that I think about it one of the classic stories in D&D lore is the Head of Vecna, based on competing groups of PC's.

You're just wrong here. I was willing to let it go and write it off as a differnce of opinion, but if you want to keep harping on it, though, I can keep showing you why you're wrong.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:54 pm

Wow. Okay.

Listen, I've worked in a game store for the past ten years, and I can tell you without reservation that if I sold people Descent as a GM-less game, they'd come back in and complain to me that I had lied to them. I could bust out the technical differences that make a fundamentally bullshit distinction, but they would be correct to punch me for doing that.

Technicalities aside, if people say they want a GM-less adventure game, they mean Talisman, or Arkham Horror, or Shadows Over Camelot, or something of that ilk. If they're into the indie RPG scene, they want something like Polaris or Universalis or Capes.

Those are games which do not have a GM. Descent just has 'GM-lite, crystal-clear like domestic beer.'

Tydanosaurus · Post by **Tydanosaurus** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:04 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:Wow. Okay.

Listen, I've worked in a game store for the past ten years, and I can tell you without reservation that if I sold people Descent as a GM-less game, they'd come back in and complain to me that I had lied to them. I could bust out the technical differences that make a fundamentally bullshit distinction, but they would be correct to punch me for doing that.

A different gamestore employee might say "Nobody's the GM, but one player controls the monsters," but then that's a "bullshit distinction." I dunno, for a "bullshit distinction" just about everybody who plays D&D would know exactly what you're talking about. And since that's how the game is described on the box, it's pretty unlikely anybody would think you lied to them.

Like I said earlier, you can let this go as a difference of opinion, or you can continue arguing that being a GM means "playing the monsters." Since, unlike you, I think "playing the monsters" is, uh, just "playing the game," we're unlikely to come to agreement here.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:30 pm

It's a thread that's starting to make me cry.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:42 pm

Tydanosaurus wrote:Like I said earlier, you can let this go as a difference of opinion, or you can continue arguing that being a GM means "playing the monsters."

I have never argued that. I can see why you disagree with the moronic thing that you seem to think I have said, but I did not say it. And since what I actually say seems to have little to do with what you think I said, yeah, I'm not interested in continuing this.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:58 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:I don't think it was ignored.

OTOH, no response to it either. You seem to imply "it wasn't poked because it wasn't retarded", though.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:02 pm

Bigode wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:I don't think it was ignored.
OTOH, no response to it either. You seem to imply "it wasn't poked because it wasn't retarded", though.

I think it's distinctly unreasonable to get a specific response to any particular post on a thread that is ~820 posts long. The entire thing would double (at least) and explode into something even more unmanageable than it is.

-Username17

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:17 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:I think it's distinctly unreasonable to get a specific response to any particular post on a thread that is ~820 posts long. The entire thing would double (at least) and explode into something even more unmanageable than it is.

Certainly. But I meant it was weird to see people say "person X's retarded for specific claim Y", someone else support claim Y, and it go undiscussed - almost always, that generates responses (often it generates even more than - I think - it should), and then, it generates ... 0. But whatever.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:50 pm

More links, less bitching.

Caedrus · Post by **Caedrus** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:57 pm

Yeah, I'm for more links, less bitching.

Talisman · Post by **Talisman** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:16 pm

Caedrus wrote:
Bigode wrote:We draw the type?
Absolutely. I would describe many of the posters on TGD as arrogant, and I don't see that as a bad thing.

I'd definitely agree with this.

I'd rather deal with people who are arrogant, intelligent and logical, given the chance. That describes most of the folks here.

...I'm not arrogant, of course.

Neeeek · Post by **Neeeek** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:34 pm

Bigode wrote: Neeeek (That's 4 e's, right? ): Talisman's not saying to shut it down or anything, just saying it's boring, and I disagree with that too.

3 e's or 4 e's work. When the switch over happened, the email with my old account's new password never showed up, so I just added another "e" and made a new account.

Vindiction7 · Post by **Vindiction7** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:41 pm

Talisman wrote:
Caedrus wrote:
Bigode wrote:We draw the type?
Absolutely. I would describe many of the posters on TGD as arrogant, and I don't see that as a bad thing.
I'd definitely agree with this.

I'd rather deal with people who are arrogant, intelligent and logical, given the chance. That describes most of the folks here.

Gotta add another "I'd definitely agree" here. I would take the arrogant "intelligent and knows it" crowd any day.

...I'm not arrogant, of course.

Of course!

Note: Also, this board got recommended to me after "the BrilliantGameologists Incident, and I like what I'm seeing. So... I'm a newbie here

Post by **fbmf** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:09 am

Meg wrote:It's totally off topic for me to reply here though, so I won't.

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
No matter what sinister motives you ascribe to her, I really do appreciate Meg not using my board to continue an argument that started on her board. I have just spent an hour removing "The great BG Debate" from this thread and that did not put me in my happy place. It stops NOW. If a fight breaks out on another board DO NOT bring it to my board. Period. [/TGFBS]

Talisman · Post by **Talisman** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:52 am

Thank you, fbmf. Thou art a king among mods.

I don't have crown, so...have a Viking hat

Vindication: Welcome aboard. Don't be a dick and we'll get along fine.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:04 am

Sorry for my part in that, fbmf.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:09 am

Shit, I missed all the e-drama.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:26 am

Seemingly you deleted my posts as having a part in it, which I didn't think was the case. You have my apologies.

A feeble attempt to redeem myself. Unfortunately, the replies are from pretty much the standard WotC idiot roster, and still look pretty sensible compared to the OP.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:19 am

Bigode wrote:Seemingly you deleted my posts as having a part in it, which I didn't think was the case. You have my apologies.

A feeble attempt to redeem myself. Unfortunately, the replies are from pretty much the standard WotC idiot roster, and still look pretty sensible compared to the OP.

My eyes!

They cannot stand the site of Capital Letters of Importance!

It buurrrrns!

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:31 am

Maxus wrote:My eyes!

They cannot stand the site of Capital Letters of Importance!

It buurrrrns!

What? Your eyes are burning just because it's at WotC?

Anyway, I can claim myself atoned now that I burned someone's eyes without getting into politics.

Talisman · Post by **Talisman** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:53 am

Rogues are too weak!

(At least the OP's GM seems to think so.)

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:07 am

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1069261

YOU'RE A BAD DM FOR USING SKILL CHALLENGES!1!!!

FUCK YOU FOR USING A FAIL SYSTEM IN A WAY THAT THE FAIL DMG DESCRIBES

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:17 am

Crap, I used to respect Crimson Concerto, and he seemed an example that not all Brazilians on the Internet are retarded.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:20 am

I know a guy on Smogon who isn't retarded. It's a really weird contrast between him and all the other "Barilians" who have weird Babelfished English that made for hilarious Netbattle userinfos and trolling.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:23 am

FBMF totally just pulled a Midnite scene from the movie Constantine.