Mearls Speaks of 4E

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:41 pm

I love that in any given round half the charaters didn't even make an actual action.

Sprint, cast Cure Light Wounds, move to be flanking (and then not make a standard action attack or casting a spell). Ect.

I mean, I never saw the cleric cast anything offensive.

Amra · Post by **Amra** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:23 pm

The cleric does cast Searing Light at one stage. Deep joy.

ASEO wrote:Problems the party had:
The couldn’t get past the huge elemental to get into the room to attack the Salamander
The Elemental was immune to the critical hits from Marcus’ Order of the Bow ability.
The Elemental two +17 attacks with a 15 foot reach that do (2d8+4 plus 2d8 fire)
None of the PC’s had any fire protection since they were not expecting this type of being to be bound in a tomb of a Wind Duke. (Maybe the door to the room should be hot to the touch)
To attack the Elemental, they had to bunch up in the hallway where they were perfect targets for the Salamander’s three fireballs.
Even when they hit the elemental, they were unable to do much damage partly because of the DR 5/-

He missed one:

"We were all shit".

Seriously. That was a super-easy encounter, and I can't begin to count the number of ways in which even that turdflock party could have walked it. WoTC must have been using players like that to determine balance for classes in 3.x. If your idea of a good thing to do with your spells is spamming evocations (yeah, I know, Warmage FTW!) and your party's only other significant contribution to ranged attacking is a concept based entirely around the opponents being vulnerable to critical hits, you're screwed before you start.

They really were spectacularly dumb. If nothing else, having talked that cringe-inducingly awful dwarven bard character into staying with the Shadow Spider... who'd actually go back for him?!

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:56 pm

Lol. Age of Worms is the Natural Selection for horrible players. I've ran one before, and had a better party than this. I almost TPKed them in the very first fight of the campaign, then almost TPKed them again in the second fight... One actually died here, because the entire party tried to run across Brown Mold for some reason which resulted in him collapsing unconscious and being left behind while the rest of the group wakes up an enemy, and another enemy takes his sweet time strangling the straggler.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:34 pm

OK, I stopped reading the link because the characters were so horrible I couldn't see anything good coming from this, but...

12th level characters noticed DR 5/- ? What the hell?

I was always curious about the Order of the Bow initiate. I always kind of suspected that they were hidden crap- nice to see some verification. Given that for the first 5 levels, you do more damage by just making all your attacks rather than using your 'special' precision attack, it seems rather pointless.

And hurrah for someone posting a party that makes a huge distinction between 'unoptimized' and 'just downright stupid'.

Amra · Post by **Amra** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:10 pm

I couldn't agree more; dreadful though most of the characters were in their own right, it *still* staggers me that they were able to forge the results of some of those encounters from 18-carat fail.

As you say, 12th-level characters noticing DR 5/- is... odd. I reckon I've got characters in my 7th-to-8th-level group at the moment who could solo that encounter, without advanced warning; and they don't even have any items to speak of.

EDIT: I'm actually going to try that very thing, this week. Dollars to doughnuts nobody even ends up unconscious, let alone dead.

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:11 pm

Roy wrote:Fun fact: The 3.0 Druid got basically no screen time. Well, she got a little, but that's it. They shipped the PHBs, then realized 'Oops, the 3rd level Druid's Grizzly Bear is superior to Tordek the 3rd level Fighter in every way!' and tried to fix it in the DMG.

Despite that, in 3.5 they fucked up in much the same way again because their playtest druid was meleeing on 10 strength with a WF and Imp Crit backed Scimitar, as well as PBS and Far Shot to support throwing spears and Scribe Scroll and Track to round it off. No wonder they missed that even weaker ACs were still superior to certain entire classes, not to mention the fun of spells and/or Natural Spell and so forth.

With a history of blatant, repeated mistakes is it really any surprise 4.0 is comprised of Epic Fucking Fail?

Yeah, honestly I'm kind of surprised that 4E went in a completely different direction than 3E.

Instead of just vomiting up any idea they can think of on a page without any remote concern whether it's balanced or not, they ended up giving the axe to everything that was even remotely complex.

Of course, I figure 4E is totally going into the ground when the splatbooks start getting released. WotC eventually will go back to its old ways of just writing super imbalanced material. And in a padded sumo environment, those imbalances are going to totally destroy the game.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:52 pm

The playtest link seems to have been broken. If yes, does anyone have a copy?

Talisman · Post by **Talisman** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:43 pm

Playtest Link

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:07 pm

Don't click it. It causes much pain.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:12 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:Don't click it. It causes much pain.

The failtest. It has scarred my eyes. I feel like a Greenland shark.

http://www.uni-oldenburg.de/zoomorphology/NGS2.html

Talisman · Post by **Talisman** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:31 pm

Oh gawd...I have to call out the highlights. Maybe that will make the screaming stop.

Round 1 of dragon combat wrote:Huckabee Leafbiter poured a potion of ‘Cure Light Wounds’ on his mount

Round 2 wrote:The Dragon uses its Frightful presence which leaves Sarah and Raven shaken.

Umm...doesn't that happen automatically when the dragon attacks, flies overhead, or roars?

Shelly vs. the Ghoul wrote:Shelly tries to turn the Ghoul and fails
*
Shelly fails a second turning attempt
*
Shelly moves to flank the Ghoul with Raven
*
Shelly moves, avoiding an AoO to set up Huckabee for the flank attack

Shelly: the pacifist cleric.

Sarah the Obsessive Mage wrote:Sarah casts ‘Magic Missile’ but fails to overcome the SR
Sarah hits the Ghoul with ‘Magic Missile’ (for 25 pts)
Sarah hits the ghoul with another salvo of ‘Magic Missiles’ (for 20 pts)
Sarah follows that up with a salvo of ‘Magic Missiles’ that fail to overcome the ghoul’s SR
Sarah kills one of the remaining Belkers with ‘Magic Missile’
Sarah uses her Wand of Magic Missiles and picks off one of the two remaining Belkers (6 pts damage)
Sarah blasts one of the shadows with ‘Magic Missiles’ (for 18 pts)
Sarah ‘Magic Missiles’ the Fleeing shadow and moves into the north west corner of the room to keep line of sight.
Sarah casts ‘Magic Missile’ hitting the wounded Xorn for 21 points and killing it.
Sarah peppers the Xorn with ‘Magic Missiles’ (for 19)
Sarah fires a ‘Magic Missile’ from a wand to see if it will hurt the whirlwind… it does (for 5)
Sarah finishes off Mohrg 3 with a ‘Magic Missile’ salvo
Sarah hits Moreto with ‘Magic Missiles’ (for 17)

Homebrew AD&D magic items FTW!

Huckabee electrifies his axe and shield (some magical items I created, for this character I changed the war hammer into an axe. The people at The Forge website illustrated them for me)

“Lightning” Battle Axe, +1/+2 vs. Evil Humanoids
&
“Thunder” Medium Steel Shield +1

When “Lightning” is struck against “Thunder” (standard action) a loud thunder clap sounds (-20 to move silently, unless in the middle of a thunder storm). This effectively blinds any creature within 60ft with Tremor Sense, or any creature that relies on sound as sight for 1 round.

Additionally, when “Lightning” strikes “Thunder”, both the war hammer and the shield obtain an electrical charge. This charge lasts for 3d4 rounds. The charge on “Lightning” will be released with a successful hit with the weapon. This does an additional d10 points of electrical damage to the target.
The charge on “Thunder” will be released if a foe strikes at “Thunder's” wielder and misses by 3 or less. This charge does d10 damage to the attacking foe. The wielder of “Thunder”, if fighting defensively or using Expertise, may add the +AC bonus to the 3 miss range as it is supposed that they are actively defending with “Thunder”. (example: A fighter taking a +2 AC bonus through the Expertise Feat would dissipate the charge on “Thunder” if he is missed by 5 or less).

These items may only hold one charge at a time. Should the charge on one of these items be dissipated, the charge may be transferred from the other item by touching the two items (this does not generate the thunder clap, and counts as a standard action).

Should the charge on one or both of these items not be discharged before the 3d4 rounds, the wielded of these items takes d10 damage from the electrical charge as it dissipates on its own. The charge may only be discharged on living matter and does not affect undead or other non living creatures (Constructs for example).

The wielder of “Lightning” and “Thunder” receives Resist Elements Electricity 12 against lightning bolts as long as both items are in hand.

Ahh...no more.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:52 pm

Shouldn't Sarah be, you know, using useful spells? Not that magic missile is bad, but there are 5th-level spells and stuff she could be casting. I think. Unless that commoner level pooped all over her. Let me check...

Well, it pooped on her, but she has 5th-level spells.

I'm really tempted to threadnecro, but I know it's wrong.

Talisman · Post by **Talisman** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:58 pm

Sarah also cast Orb of Force a bunch of times, and Fireball, Lightning Bolt and Arc of Lightning once or twice.

And magic missile...magic missile...magic missile...

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:02 pm

Sarah could have been casting 6th-level spells if she weren't a douche.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:07 pm

Thanks. Fvck.

Tydanosaurus · Post by **Tydanosaurus** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:15 pm

Why harsh on Sarah? At least she did something. I might have missed it, but I don't think the Ninja and the Bard did anything at all, except give the Cleric people to heal.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:17 pm

Because she's a warmage.

Hey_I_Can_Chan · Post by **Hey_I_Can_Chan** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:40 pm

I read that entire crap about the homebrew magic item, and I just about died. Just give the poor dude a +3 thundering warhammer and pretty +3 shield, for fuck's sake. I felt like I needed a spreadsheet to keep up with that goddamn, fucked-up magic item combo.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:55 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:Shouldn't Sarah be, you know, using useful spells? Not that magic missile is bad, but there are 5th-level spells and stuff she could be casting. I think. Unless that commoner level pooped all over her. Let me check...

Well, it pooped on her, but she has 5th-level spells.

I'm really tempted to threadnecro, but I know it's wrong.

Feel free. Its particularly bad with the 'big road block' of the fire elemental and salamander encounter, since there are a good handful of cold-typed spells to throw at the fire monsters. Two orbs of cold will put down a noble salamander with average die rolls.

Even if the player isn't game savvy enough to know that, pulling out the cold spells seems an obvious response to fire monsters.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:59 pm

Being a Commoner/Warmage is not acceptable.

-Username17

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:01 am

FrankTrollman wrote:Being a Commoner is not acceptable.

-Username17

Fixed.

Talisman · Post by **Talisman** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:08 am

FWIW, it looks like the commoner levels were "free"...this was effectively an 11th-level party.

Note the class breakdown:
Fighter 5/Bard 6 = 11
Commoner1/Fighter 1/Cleric 10 = 11 + commoner
Commoner1/Warmage 11 = 11 + commoner
Ninja 11
Warrior 1/Fighter 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 7 = 11 + warrior

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:27 am

Ironically enough, the crapitude of the party actually made it more like a seventh-level party.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:58 am

There is a thread on party composition (as in, actual parties people are running through the adventure path). Its... pretty bad.

http://paizo.com/dungeon/messageboards/ ... omposition

The first page includes gems like:

Elf monk lvl 5 - from the Twilight Monastary and the main fighter of the group

and

two mage types from the Emporium.
The first is a hermaphrodite 1/2 elf who is a healer using a slightly different form of magic than most and the second is an over-sexed prostitute who uses the same form of magic.

And I'm not even going to ask.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:58 am

Talisman wrote: Fighter 5/Bard 6 = 11

How the fuck it this suppose to work? Adding Dwarf is just plain weird.

Commoner1/Fighter 1/Cleric 10 = 11 + commoner

A band-aid...great, well it doesn't like this character is hurting for work.

Commoner1/Warmage 11 = 11 + commoner

Even without the commoner level this character is still being played dumb (cast fucking cold spell on the fire creatures)

Ninja 11

Like a rogue but you pay dearly for looking cool

Warrior 1/Fighter 4/Order of the Bow Initiate 7 = 11 + warrior

It's pretty bad when a character needs free BAB and hp.