Chris Pramas wrote:Now the anecdotes I hear are sometimes interesting, but I try not to read a lot into them. I had a retailer at the Alliance Open House in Las Vegas, for example, tell me he stopped carrying 4E because his customers tried it, didn't like it, and went back to playing 3E. I can believe that happened in his store, but I don't think such an extreme reaction is common. The only commentary I have taken seriously has come from the two halves of the distribution system: the game trade and the book trade. In separate conversations, an executive in the game trade and the former RPG buyer for a major chain of bookstores both told me the same thing: 4E sold in well but follow-up sales were slow. One of them told me that 4E supplements were selling at the same level as 3E supplements at the beginning of this year (i.e. 8 years into 3E's lifecycle).
Well, I can say I haven't bought any 4th. Nor supplements. Tho my buying is seriously down from previous years (I no longer work in a store, Comics and Games Retailer no longer prints, etc, etc).
How many of you bought 4e? Supplements? I've bought a couple FRED books, and a couple d20 books (used).
Crissa wrote:How many of you bought 4e? Supplements?
Nobody in my gaming group has bought anything 4e. For comparison, my Dm has every Dnd 3.x hardcover book that has been printed (I think. I may be off by one or two. But then again, he has duplicates for a few books). The players 3.x books add up to probably a little over a dozen.
There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
One guy in my game crew bought the core three for 4e (he's kind of crazy), and another bought the PHB. Two of us bought nothing. Another is just now buying his 3.5 stuff, and he refused to learn a new system. The sixth is new to RPGs in general and we're not playing 4e, so...
For comparison, I have over 50 3.x hardbacks and at least as many softcovers. Two of my buddies have at least 20+ 3.x books.
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Of the people I know IRL, name here and I have chosen not to buy it and use 3.x and Tome, our cousins are sticking with 2e and 3.x, and some guys at my school are playing with 1e or oD&D PDFs. I'm thinking of picking up some more 3.x - we only have the 3.0 class series, Races of Stone, and the Fanboyonomicon.
I wasn't asking about your installed base of d20 books. I own six core 3.0 books (two PHB editions), three+ d20 books (hardcovers), nine 2ed books, eight AD&D books, four Hackmaster, the D&D Rules Cyclopedia... C'mon, installed base is known. (I have, ninety plus shelf inches of game books, so I was talking about what's been bought in the last year.)
I know several groups playing 4e instead of 3rd, and it's very strange because they're all basically playing the same exact campaign. More same than listening to people talk about playing Warcraft, even. And the one guy I do game with anymore has bought two sets of 4e books, but that's because one set was snatch-and grabbed from his car and he's the DM. That's just six books, tho.
But the one group I know that embraced 3.5 bigtime were also really terrible players - they refused to use game shops (bought everything through Wal-Mart!) saying they didn't need to know anyone around them to game. They don't game anymore, duh, no players 9-9
-Crissa
Last edited by Crissa on Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
DeadlyReed wrote:In Enworld's WotC layoffs thread, Sean K. Reynolds chimes in on 4E sales at the very end of this post right here.
Ha! Sean Reynolds says that Wizards is their one profitable division.
Hasbro 3rd quarter 2008 Corporate Report wrote:[*] Boys, Girls, Preschool and Games up globally compared to a year ago, with growth driven by strong performances from STAR WARS, PLAYSKOOL, FURREAL FRIENDS, LITTLEST PET SHOP, NERF, BABY ALIVE, and in both board and trading card games;
[*] Balance sheet remains strong, with operating cash flow of $579.0 million over the last 12 months.
To be fair to SKR, I think he was talking about the time of the 2003 layoffs when he lost his WotC job.
And I've only bought the 4e PHB, so I'll have a hardcopy just in case I stumble across a 4e game and it's my only gaming option.
Then again, I only own maybe a half dozen 3.5 books, since my job was getting in the habit of consistently overworking me about the time that came out. I own just about every generic rules supplement made for 3.0 though.
I bet that the OGL is squeezing the life out of 4E.
Serves them right.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
And it's been four months since the last errata even though there are still many unresolved issues and problematic areas from the books.
What the fuck are they doing over there?
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Crissa wrote:I know several groups playing 4e instead of 3rd, and it's very strange because they're all basically playing the same exact campaign. More same than listening to people talk about playing Warcraft, even.
Nothing to do with them playing the same WotC adventures, maybe minorly modified?
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I bought the 3 core books of 4E to make an informed decision, and bought the FR campaign guide in the (disappointed) hope that it could be mined for ideas.
My 3E/3.5E stuff (I tend to use them all in my house ruled game) takes up a lot more room.
