Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

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Lago_AM3P
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Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by Lago_AM3P »

Can't cleric archers use this as an extremely cheap version of Initiate of Mystra?

It'll block most attacks you care about and will also block spellcasting that doesn't affect you. On the other hand, your buffs will still apply and arrows you shoot through the anti-magic field will get all of their properties back as they sail to the target.
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

Where is it from?
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by Carcharoth »

It's from Complete Somethingorother. I'm pretty sure it's Adventurer but it could be Arcane.
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

Carcharoth at [unixtime wrote:1111720232[/unixtime]]It's from Complete Somethingorother. I'm pretty sure it's Adventurer but it could be Arcane.


Complete Adventurer. And Lago, you're right.
Damn' that is a poorly worded feat. Like it would have been that hard to say that the character's space is excluded from the spell's area...

Still, I know I'm going to abuse the heck out of this one. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

And strictly speaking, this feat is better than the Initiate for the AMF purposes, because (a) it doesn't require a caster level check for every spell you cast, and (b) all of your gear still functions.

This is even better then the AMF cleric archer with spell-storing arrows :D

Remember, it isn't that you have a special bubble in the spell's area. You can act as if the spell didn't exist!
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by Josh_Kablack »

I think I just figured out what Enalis is taking for his 12th level feat. Personal Immunity AMF and Personal Immunity Cloudkill running at the same time...:D
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by Boulie_98 »

If you use this feat to place an AMF on yourself, doesn't that mean that other spellcasters can target you with anything and everything as well? The effects are just suppressed in the squares you don't occupy.

And how would it affect someone trying to stab you with a magic weapon? Is the weapon nonmagical, or is it magical because it enters your square? :confused:
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by SuicideChump »

I agree with Boulie 98.
An Antimagic Field doesn't dispel, it interrupts all magical effects within its area: i.e. any spell takes place, but it has no effects.
If you are excluded from an Antimagic Field, then any spell will take effect within the place you occupy (though being suppressed around you).
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

AMFs block line of effect, but not area of effect. AoEs don't affect any area affected by an AMF.

So if you were in an AMF and not affected by it, you could be protected from a Charm(a targetted spell) but would be normally affected by a Fireball(an AoE).

Burst effects, however, would not affect you, since those are stopped in a line of effect.

The FAQ has a long section on this kind of thing.
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1111770008[/unixtime]]AMFs block line of effect, but not area of effect. AoEs don't affect any area affected by an AMF.

So if you were in an AMF and not affected by it, you could be protected from a Charm(a targetted spell) but would be normally affected by a Fireball(an AoE).

Burst effects, however, would not affect you, since those are stopped in a line of effect.

The FAQ has a long section on this kind of thing.


Here is the funny thing: You aren't affected by the AMF, but your space is.

It seems to be rather like Freedom of movement: You can act freely under water, but you're still under water.

Any spell cast in or into the space you occupy automagically fails unless you cast it. Which matters for LoE and AoE.

Unless they're using a Conjuration (creation) spell or similar Metacreativity power which creates a nonmagical effect.
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

Catharz wrote:Here is the funny thing: You aren't affected by the AMF, but your space is.

It seems to be rather like Freedom of movement: You can act freely under water, but you're still under water.

Any spell cast in or into the space you occupy automagically fails unless you cast it. Which matters for LoE and AoE.

Unless they're using a Conjuration (creation) spell or similar Metacreativity power which creates a nonmagical effect.


Right and wrong.

Yes, your space is affected. So, a dude grappling you in your space would be in the AMF.

However, AoE spells function normally when they intersect AMFs; however, the parts of the AoE that overlaps the AMF do not function.

Since there is no coverage on you(since you can obviously have buffs on, not being affected by the AMF), the AoE effects can affect you.

Targetted spells are blocked, however, since they must travel in a line of effect to the target to affect it.
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

K at [unixtime wrote:1111774541[/unixtime]]
Right and wrong.

Yes, your space is affected. So, a dude grappling you in your space would be in the AMF.

However, AoE spells function normally when they intersect AMFs; however, the parts of the AoE that overlaps the AMF do not function.

Since there is no coverage on you(since you can obviously have buffs on, not being affected by the AMF), the AoE effects can affect you.

Targetted spells are blocked, however, since they must travel in a line of effect to the target to affect it.


I'm having trouble convincing myself that I'm right, but is seems like according to the RAW the AMF passes through the unaffected character, such that if you stab them with a supressed Flaming longsword is stays supressed.

I don't think there is 'open space' in the AMF that the character occupies, it passes through him like a few billion neutrinos.

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'll admit I'm a bit confused by this feat.
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Boulie_98 at [unixtime wrote:1111761925[/unixtime]]If you use this feat to place an AMF on yourself, doesn't that mean that other spellcasters can target you with anything and everything as well? The effects are just suppressed in the squares you don't occupy.


You'd like to think that, but tjeck the actual wording again, as Catharz mentioned, "you can act as if the spell did not exist".

In HERO terms, this feat does not confer "Hole in the Middle", (as was probably the design intent), instead it confers "Personal Immunity" - you can ignore the effects of your own spells. You get to ignore the concealment normally provided by Fog Cloud, while your enemies don't, you get to walk through your own Walls of Force and so on - nonsensical in some cases, grossly overpowered in others and unfortunately supported by the RAW.
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by fbmf »

How is Extraordinary Spell Aim different from Selective Spell from Shining South?

Game On,
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

fbmf at [unixtime wrote:1112063499[/unixtime]]How is Extraordinary Spell Aim different from Selective Spell from Shining South?

Game On,
fbmf


Aside from being metamagic, casting time for a wizard, and using a higher level spell slot, Selective spell is exactly the same.
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

Lets me change that: Selective spell has no effect on "effect spells." I'm not sure what that means, buit it could be important. Don't all spells produce an "effect"?
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by Essence »

From the SRD, under "Aiming Spells":

3.5 SRD wrote:Effect: Some spells create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present. You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile it can move regardless of the spell’s range.

Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at.

If a ray spell has a duration, it’s the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists.

If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.

Spread: Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can’t see. Figure distance by actual distance traveled, taking into account turns the spell effect takes. When determining distance for spread effects, count around walls, not through them. As with movement, do not trace diagonals across corners. You must designate the point of origin for such an effect, but you need not have line of effect (see below) to all portions of the effect.



So there you go. An "effect" is "that which is not an alteration to an existing state".

You can tell what spells are "effect" spells because they have an Effect: heading in their entry (as opposed to a Target: heading).
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

Essence at [unixtime wrote:1112069927[/unixtime]]
3.5 SRD wrote:
So there you go. An effect is that which is not an alteration to an existing state


You can tell what spells are effect spells because they have an Effect: heading in their entry (as opposed to a Target: heading).


Ah, that makes sense. Apparently the SS version still works on AMF (which has an "Area").
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by Essence »

Right. I knew there was a third option. :blush:
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Re: Possible Broken Feat: Extraordinary Spell Aim

Post by User3 »

So, I was thinking...

If this feat actually existed in a campaign world, it would be every spellcaster's 12th level feat.

And every 12th level cleric would have and Extraordinarily aimed Divine Persistant Antimagic field up all the time. Wizards hopefully have another way (Incantatrix, etc.)

Which means that nobody gets within 10' of anyone above 11th level, and nobody uses targeted spells on anyone above 11th level.
And nobody attacks with magical weapons.

Which leads to a very interesting shift in tactics.

Of course, then the Initiate of Mystra comes along and kills everyone.
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