After Sundown: Printed

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:41 am

I got antsy at my lack of being able to refer to the After Sundown rules through paper, and using a library printer just isn't cutting it. As far as I'm aware, Frank's not in the market to print it himself, and thus I took matters into my own hands. It took a bit to make it properly, and I'm not going to be exactly reproduce this...

Front Coster

Back Cover

Interior Sample

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:15 am

How much did that run?

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:23 am

After it was all said and done; $25

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:53 am

...huh. That's food for thought

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:50 am

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:17 am

I want LeVar Burton to read that book to me.

Meikle641 · Post by **Meikle641** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:31 pm

I talked with Frank about publishing AS fairly recently in a PM. It'd be ages before I'd have the funds ready for it, though, but my main plans were to get paid artwork and get it professionally edited and stuff.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:21 pm

Oh yeah, the thing would be definitely improved with an editor and paid art. The main person I know for developmental editing would cost .05/word

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:25 pm

That's impressive.

-Username17

rampaging-poet · Post by **rampaging-poet** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:41 pm

I also had After Sundown printed recently, but my copies aren't nearly as impressive as that. I had five spiral-bound softcovers printed from the old PDF with the cathedral and floating heads on the cover, and they cost about $22 each after taxes. We haven't had a chance to actually play yet, but the rules are much easier to refer to this way.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:49 pm

About half a decade ago, I had the Tomes printed into spiral-bound softcover (F&K's work only). I can't remember how much that set me back, but that was something I used often in games. Obviously I've progressed in my production values

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:49 am

How far could you go with just public domain artwork? A lot of these monster concepts are rather classical.

Like a Dragon Slayer/Dragon from Peter Paul Reubens (for Marduk Society perhaps)

Or here's a vampire from 1899, and some B&W photo of a vampire

And movies like Metropolis and Nosferatu are public domain

A lot of current RPG artwork is worse in comparison.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:01 pm

I've kind of been wanting to kickstart a printing run of AS. It's an option, especially if we could poach some WoD fanboys with the right presentation.

TarkisFlux · Post by **TarkisFlux** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:58 pm

I'd kickstart a revised/second edition (like the one recently being discussed) print run... though I don't know how much traction you'd get for a one-off project like this with no pre-existing plans for future support or even future print runs.

codeGlaze · Post by **codeGlaze** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:22 pm

That's... really cool.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:18 am

TarkisFlux wrote:I'd kickstart a revised/second edition (like the one recently being discussed) print run... though I don't know how much traction you'd get for a one-off project like this with no pre-existing plans for future support or even future print runs.

Yeah, any Kickstarter for this would be for funding the most current version of the system; if the revised talk goes deeper, than we should wait until that one is done. As it stands, a professional editing would cost in the $8k range. Paying for professional art, even just the cover, is/should be in the $1-2 thousand range; interior pieces running from a quarter to half that depending on size/complexity. Then we need to get it properly formatted for print, which includes getting pieces hyperlinked within a PDF document; probably about $200. As much as I'm certain we will spread and market it ourselves for free, it can't hurt to get a professional for marketing and PR, which I would aim for about $5k since I'm including web-design.

That's $15.000 just to get it made for publication. Without a distribution deal in place, we have to presume print-on-demand (at least 3 I know of without thinking) is being used. If we got enough preorders, PoD can produce it for ~$20 (vs my $25) apiece. As there is certainly something missing in charges here, an After Sundown Kickstarter should aim for $20.000.

Obviously promises of releasing the other supplements as Frank's described (the world books, the past/future books, etc) would help. Supplements should require primary input/direction/approval from Frank himself, which is dependent on his own willingness/ability with whomever's contributing. I personally wish I was good enough that my writing contributions would be considered for such products (/self-deprecation).

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:30 am

So... I'm a professional copy editor now, and I'd be willing to do it for free. Or for money.

But it's true that you might be better off with an editor specialized in literature rather than technical manuals and tests.

And I think you might be underestimating the cost of good layout.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:49 am

CatharzGodfoot wrote:So... I'm a professional copy editor now, and I'd be willing to do it for free. Or for money.

But it's true that you might be better off with an editor specialized in literature rather than technical manuals and tests.

And I think you might be underestimating the cost of good layout.

Oh, the quote I have is from a professional RPG-book editor, so there's that. And yes, good chance I underestimated the layout, probably closer to the 1.5-2k range; I say that low because we can probably get the equivalent of a bulk rate by trying to keep page design on a template.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:13 am

Virgil, I forgot to mention: regardless of any kickstarting, that book you made is fucking awesome.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:48 am

I can make more, but I can't use the same cover image as above due to legal constraints. Any future copies would likely use the following image (left side is back cover)

Public domain images that are up to snuff AND suitable for an After Sundown book are really hard to find, by the way.

It would probably cost you guys about $30 per book if you want me to make some for you lot. You need to remember that that the interior will be the layout as set by Frank when he made the PDF, as I haven't messed with it in any attempt to clean it up. I can double-check to know which is the most up-to-date, as I know there are at least two versions floating around.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:55 pm

I'm interested. Who knows, might be an excuse to make a PayPal.

There's also a third version, one that I explicitly recall had a bunch of monster heads on the cover.

I also seem to remember Frank was the picture of the Leviathan--bugged his eyes out and such.

Edit: Knew it was around someplace. But the torrent's not up and you can't buy it anywhere. But I knew I wasn't crazy

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:55 am

After Sundown

As in the link above, the game is now available in glossy hardcover. The back cover will match the prior image's left side. The interior will be as seen in the most recent PDF made by Frank, unchanged from that layout, just as a warning for those who get anal. Realistically, it's going to be a number of months before we see After Sundown Revised complete and ready; but once that happens, I can do this again.

Yes, I cheated using Lulu, I don't care because I have a print copy of After Sundown

As an aside, the $30 price tag is because it cost me $25 to buy it for myself at cost, and Lulu/Paypal fees take more than I expected. As it stands, eventually it will pay for the art I bought for the cover.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:09 am

TarkisFlux wrote:I'd kickstart a revised/second edition (like the one recently being discussed) print run... though I don't know how much traction you'd get for a one-off project like this with no pre-existing plans for future support or even future print runs.

Stretch Goals then. Or just say that you'll listen to fan feedback for what's wanted next.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:27 pm

Allright, because it's cool, I ordered one.

codeGlaze · Post by **codeGlaze** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:41 pm

What happened to the cover art from your first post?
..that was cool. (I will order one as soon as I can get my account over $10

)