The Story of BattleTech: What's wrong with it?

[Centurion13]

...but my solution would be to ...

Stand in line and take a number. You are not the only one to come up with plans which at least sound better for the continued existence of the game than the current path it is actually taking.

My friend Bill used to be quite the BT gamer, but his interest waned when the CGL people wanted to fuck him on the cheap for the display tables at GenCon 2008. Ancient history now, but it became clear to him that they weren't interested in anything they couldn't get for free. That meant fanboy labor and fanboys paying for it. And we are talking about a measly $1500 at most for a really killer table display (I know - I was going to build the electronic portion of it, complete with Z-scale elevated train). Measly for a successful game company, that is - not for the average gamer.

Of course, we didn't know the reason behind the stinginess at that time.

Anyhow, their business tactics will never make sense as long as they have egomaniacs in charge. And they always will, because the egomaniacs are also empire builders who have tied up most of the intellectual property in their heads. They are employed for life, whether we players like it or not.

I am hoping for fresh blood with a fresh attitude, but it certainly seems like they are determined to keep the status quo. And that includes obtuse marketing strategy which appeals to no one but the members of the BT Inner Ring.

Cent13

[Juton]

What's keeping HeavyMetal Pro from being updated is that the programmer doesn't have time to do so.

He doesn't have the time because, besides dealing with some serious personal life issues, he has had to contend with constantly changing variables. 'Feature creep' is a very real problem with HMP 6.0 and I am not at all surprised Rick has not finished it. It won't be done until those... wonderful people at CGL have finished making up the rules... and after the players pay for the privilege of debugging said rules.

... which is just another reason why a new player would be reluctant to purchase the game cold off the shelf.

Cent13

I'm a computer programmer by trade, all the new toys could be added quite quickly (several hours if you are familiar with the code). Software could be patched, he could release a version that complies to where Battletech was in 2008 and then patch it when he has the time to do so.

I don't have anything against Rick, from what I've read he's had his hands full with important things in real life.

A fan made project Solaris Skunk Werks has most or all of the features of HMP and all the experimental technology from the game. So it's possible to include it all in a program right now and when you need to add something new just issue a patch. It's possible but it's not getting done officially.

[Centurion13]

I'm a computer programmer by trade, all the new toys could be added quite quickly (several hours if you are familiar with the code).

I have no idea where Rick is in the project, but I am sure that if he could, he would take the quick, simple route. He certainly would be familiar with the code. So my guess (and it is only a guess) is that he decided to go with something which was a bit more expandable (by him or others) and at the same time could accomodate the exploding plethora of features available to a 'Mech manufacturer in 3085.

I believe the core was supposed to support most levels of play - meaning building infantry all the way up to creating fleets of warships. Other than that, I have no clue. However, it would seem for his own financial well-being that Rick would have taken the short route.

I can only conclude that this is not an option which is open to him.

Cent13

[Kithkanan]

I note the company shills over at the BattleTech site are busy patting themselves on the backs for getting their PDFs out for several large pubs, as opposed to the nickel-dime writing they've been doing recently. Good for them. I hope the artists and writers get paid.

I notice you are bravely avoiding going back and eating the crow you said you would when you said that TRO 3085 wouldn't be completed.

I know the SOBs have to go back to court on 9 August. But is anything else developing?

Delayed until October 12th.

[Centurion13]

I note the company shills over at the BattleTech site are busy patting themselves on the backs for getting their PDFs out for several large pubs, as opposed to the nickel-dime writing they've been doing recently. Good for them. I hope the artists and writers get paid.

I notice you are bravely avoiding going back and eating the crow you said you would when you said that TRO 3085 wouldn't be completed.

I know the SOBs have to go back to court on 9 August. But is anything else developing?

Delayed until October 12th.

October 12th?! Awww... well, patience is a virtue.

Oh, Kith. I went out on Saturday (after I got my copy of the 3085), sat at my table out on the lawn and smoked a cigar whilst updating the TRO:3063 Table of Contents. I waited for you to come by so I could shake your fanboy hand and tender my apologies for ever doubting the integrity of The Powers That Be. The TRO did in fact hit the stree... well, the internet, anyway. It has yet to be in dead-tree format, but who knows?

You never showed up.

I thought for sure someone would take me up on this, and PM me for my address. I would have given it freely - as I stated way back when I first suggested the TRO:3085 would likely be vaporware due to certain larcenous hearts.

No one PM'd me. No one came by. And it was such a nice day, too.

However, I did attract a bunch of the neighbor kids, who rode their bikes right up to my table but had no idea what I was talking about. They thought Eric Ou's work in our TRO was really 'cool', however.

I would visit the company forums and tender my apologies there, but I believe they have a no-smoking ban in force. And I've had my fill of their brand of fanboy love.

Throw the rascals out!

Cent13

[Clutch9800]

The absolute last thing this game needs is another Technical Readout. Fan-Produced or otherwise.

But then again, I've always despised custom designs outside of battlefield jury-rigging and Solaris VII. So, it's a personal bias.

I'm a miniatures guy. I enjoy assembling and painting miniatures. I think BattleTech should lean more in the miniatures game direction, but there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth with the older phans when anything like this is brought up. They seem to think it's one of the franchises strengths that is can be played with pennies and pocket lint to represent units.

As far as the Flatlines problem. That's across the board. It's tough to find fans and players.

I would venture to guess that the closest we ever came to re-capturing the "Golden Age" of BattleTech was the "Battle of Monte Diablo" where we had over 1000 players worldwide play the "same" scenario on the same Saturday.

That was pretty flash.

Clutch

[Centurion13]

The absolute last thing this game needs is another Technical Readout. Fan-Produced or otherwise.

Clutch

See, now that's just the balanced, carefully considered statement I have come to expect from you, Clutch.

You wouldn't be Clutch, former head of the FanPro Commandos, would you? With the basement full of miniatures in the foothills of San Diego and the air pistol? I remember La Croix, pal. You can call me The Butcher.

Technical Readouts are another product - just about the most popular one, in fact - that keeps CGL in business as a business. Unlike me, they are not producing it to gratify their personal desires (though it can work that way, too). They are doing it to earn a living.

As much as I would like to see Loren L Coleperson and Random Bills take a hike (throw the rascals out!), I do not want the company to go under because they stopped selling product. I sometimes think folks like you settle on a single aspect of the hobby to the point where it disturbs your reason.

Either that or you are trolling strictly for thrills today.

As for fan-produced Technical Readouts... what would you have folks like me do? We like to write, we like the setting, we like making tankie pitures. It has nothing whatever to do with the needs of the game and everything to do with my needs and those of people like me. Like Devo says, it is a triumph of the will.

Ours, not yours.

If you don't like TROs, don't buy them. Don't download them, either.

Mwah! Happy Tuesday, you random git.

Cent13

[Juton]

I'd love to see another Martial Olympiad. There hasn't been one in years, supposedly it's being held up because they can't ship any software to handle the new mechs. But it would be trivial to set it during the Star League or one of the Succession Wars, hell set it in the Clan homeworlds before the invasion. Any of those would be better than the nothing we have now.

And to Cent13, by all means if you like to write then write. TRO 3063 has that sexy new wraith right, I'd love to see a write up of that. And maybe an Albatross that doesn't suck.

[Clutch9800]

You can call me The Butcher.

Ah yes.

The man who ordered the destruction of a marked ambulance full of wounded....."Just in case."

Anyway, I think I qualified my statement as to why I think there is "too much mech" in BattleTech. I know that statement seems counterintuitive, but I just think there are too many models of BattleMech in the universe. There are more individual chassis of BattleMech than there have been models of Tanks in human history.

I get that they're the best selling product type in BT except for basic rule books, but it gets to be a bit much for me sometimes.

Clutch

P.S. Plus, I really don't like Plogs art.

P.P.S. All of the aformentioned is my personal opinion, your mileage may vary.

[Stahlseele]

As for fan-produced Technical Readouts... what would you have folks like me do? We like to write, we like the setting, we like making tankie pitures.

WEBCOMIC!

[Centurion13]

You can call me The Butcher.

Ah yes.

The man who ordered the destruction of a marked ambulance full of wounded....."Just in case."

Ordered?!

Ordered!?

Hahahahahaha! You funny, you very funny man!

I personally shot the piss out of that fleeing vehicle - yes, clearly marked - with a Mantis and I liked it.

Do you want me to tell folks why I liked it, Senior Chief?

Oh wait, you probably aren't one any more. Well, I have been out of the service for a while too. So you can't use your paygrade to tell me what to do - like, shut the fuck up.

Would you like me to tell them exactly what you did to a couple of sailors who'd literally just pulled in from a ten-month cruise and were in for a friendly game? Whose dedication to the game of BattleTech and admiration for folks like you kept them going despite being separated from friends and family and stuck on a floating airfield for nearly a year?

I don't think you would, Clutch. Because if I did, I think every swinging dick on this forum would hit the Ignore button on you in one hell of a hurry. Your ego had already taken over a lot of your life by May of 2003 - it doesn't appear things have improved since then.

My GOD. We trusted you, looked up to you, and you used us. You fucked us real good to serve your own god-damned ego and amuse your gaming pallies. You still haven't apologized and you probably never will.

Have you no shame at long last?

Cent13

[Centurion13]

As for fan-produced Technical Readouts... what would you have folks like me do? We like to write, we like the setting, we like making tankie pitures.

WEBCOMIC!

Good! Someone tried that with Traveller and I watched the poor sumbitch drown in the number of people who thought it unlikely the ship's crew could actually see their opponents so far away. He never did anything else like that again, and he was an accomplished artist, too.

I will stick to TROs. I am beginning to learn which reviews matter and which are best ignored just from the tone of the writer. Constructive criticism I can use. But someone acting like a human vuvuzela? Like this? Right. The tone is unnerving but I don't have to try reading anything of meaning into it.

Actually, that's a lot like Clutch. Huh. Maybe I should follow my own advice...

Cent13

[Gnosticism Is A Hoot]

Well, this thread just took a turn for the batshit crazy.

[Clutch9800]

I don't think you would, Clutch. Because if I did, I think every swinging dick on this forum would hit the Ignore button on you in one hell of a hurry. Your ego had already taken over a lot of your life by May of 2003 - it doesn't appear things have improved since then.

My GOD. We trusted you, looked up to you, and you used us, fucked us real good to serve your own god-damned ego. You still haven't apologized and you probably never will.

Have you no shame at long last?

Heh,

That was a good scenario, wasn't it. I still have that Mech Base terrain somewhere.

How's your boy? Growing up fast? Mine are.

Clutch

P.P.S. And by the by, I wasn't the only one that used you that weekend to satisfy my Ego. If memory serves GBII involuntarily extended your cruise by a day or two to declare, "Mission Accomplished".

[Centurion13]

Well, this thread just took a turn for the batshit crazy.

This ain't crazy. A little pissed off, yeah. But not crazy.

If you don't like it, just hit the ignore button. I promise it will make me go away.

Cent13

[Centurion13]

I'd love to see another Martial Olympiad. There hasn't been one in years, supposedly it's being held up because they can't ship any software to handle the new mechs. But it would be trivial to set it during the Star League or one of the Succession Wars, hell set it in the Clan homeworlds before the invasion. Any of those would be better than the nothing we have now.

And to Cent13, by all means if you like to write then write. TRO 3063 has that sexy new wraith right, I'd love to see a write up of that. And maybe an Albatross that doesn't suck.

I am not sure they have the infrastructure left to do that anymore. Which is too bad, because from what my friend Chris says, events like Martial Olympiad were one of their strong points. He still talks of it today, along with Mount Diablo. More recent efforts just don't have the same feel and I am not sure why.

[edit] Maybe... maybe it's us who've changed. The more I consider it, the more that seems to be the case. Huh! (looks in the mirror with mild shock) I'm getting old.

Ah! the sexy Wraith only works if I take parts exclusive to three different Houses and put them together in a one-off design (who could produce it?). That is what it would take to improve on the stock Wraith, sorry to say.

I offered an improved Albatross and Eric was going to illustrate it, but folks wanted canon commemoration for that forum member of the same name over at the company site.

BattleTech. You can tell canon is popular with those guys - they're just dying to get into it.

Cent13

[Clutch9800]

Maybe it is time that the truth was brought out. The story isn't pretty though, as it involves:

1. BattleTech
2. A sociopathic egomaniac
3. A sealed basement
4. Two lonely sailors on shore leave
5. Target Practice
6. A fellow with "Crazy Eyes".
7. A twitchy oriental
8. Murder

Clutch

[A Man In Black]

I have no idea what's going on in this thread.

[Gnosticism Is A Hoot]

Well, this thread just took a turn for the batshit crazy.

This ain't crazy. A little pissed off, yeah. But not crazy.

If you don't like it, just hit the ignore button. I promise it will make me go away.

Cent13

Hey, I think it's hilarious. The less context the better!

[Centurion13]

I have no idea what's going on in this thread.

Eh, it drifted into old territory.

We were discussing what was keeping BattleTech from being a roaring success. Someone took a swipe at me for not apologizing publicly for doubting TPTB at CGL could get TRO:3085 out.

And like a fool, I bit.

Then Clutch Cargo comes along and starts in with his babbling and before you know it, I am unloading on him. And he earned every bit of it. Just, this wasn't the plce for it. The event is seven years gone and to be honest, I have forgiven the man for what he did - then, and today.

I apologize for de-railing the conversation and the thread.

I'm sorry, guys.

But - you know? Clutch is another reason the game is not a roaring success. What is wrong with BattleTech? Well, one thing is the hubris of the High Priesthood, those heads having been turned by fanboy worship. The game goes from what is essentially an enjoyable hobby into Ego Food for a select few - and a mansion for certain others.

And people accept it. It's normal. There are certain players who don't want to upset the applecart, not because there's nothing going on, not because the game might disappear, but because if they did, they might not get their turn.

The same thing which led Coleman to loot the company is what led Clutch to his downfall. It's behind every cold shoulder, every snooty gamer who looks down his nose at you and quotes from some obscure House Handbook... and snorts when you don't immediately agree. Or sneers at your unpainted minis or your tattered fourth-hand rulebooks. Or greets your rules questions with uncomfortable silence.

It's the same thing that breaks up established gaming groups over seemingly petty squabbles, the thing that makes it so darned hard to stay the course when making good product in the company or even just organize a game down at the local shop.

And with that I hope I have returned you all to your regularly scheduled thread. Sorry for the interruption.

Cent13

[Clutch9800]

Clutch is another reason the game is not a roaring success. What is wrong with BattleTech? Well, one thing is the hubris of the High Priesthood, those heads having been turned by fanboy worship.

That's kind of insulting F.T. I was never in any "High Priesthood". The sole reason I founded and ran the Commandos was to take the game out of what I refered to as the "GenCon Crowd" and put it back into the hands of local gaming groups. That's what I tried to make the Marauders at FASA.

Did I fail? Fuck yeah I failed. But it wasn't for a lack of trying. Shit Chris, you were there, you know how much shit I took. (Not that I didn't give as much right back. Mea Culpa). As far as "splitting the community", people I didn't even know used to track me down and call me at my home. (My Home! Where I sleep! Where my children come to play, with thier toys.) To ask me to ban this or that player, or adjuducate some "petty squabble" in a gaming group in Dallas, or something. As if that was something that I could do even if I wanted to.

Nope, you got me all wrong. You don't understand my motivation, what drives me, or what I really care about. Not that it matters a rats ass these days, because I'm as far outside the circle that I will never ever see the inside again. Not that such things matter.

I'm not really sure what it was I did to piss you off, but let me assure you it was not intentional. I honestly thought you enjoyed that game.

Clutch

P.S. If you're just fucking with me. That's okay too.

And I take great umbrage at the insinuation that I would ever look down on a gamer because they were new to the game, didn't understand a concept, weren't good at painting, et.al. I've never done that and I never will.

[Stahlseele]

As for fan-produced Technical Readouts... what would you have folks like me do? We like to write, we like the setting, we like making tankie pitures.

WEBCOMIC!

Good! Someone tried that with Traveller and I watched the poor sumbitch drown in the number of people who thought it unlikely the ship's crew could actually see their opponents so far away. He never did anything else like that again, and he was an accomplished artist, too.

I will stick to TROs. I am beginning to learn which reviews matter and which are best ignored just from the tone of the writer. Constructive criticism I can use. But someone acting like a human vuvuzela? Like this? Right. The tone is unnerving but I don't have to try reading anything of meaning into it.

Actually, that's a lot like Clutch. Huh. Maybe I should follow my own advice... :wink:

Cent13

aw poo ._.
i really would have liked an webcomic in the battletech universe in the art style of the old unseen pictures in the back of the older novels . .

[Crissa]

Everyone likes that art style. That's why it was sold so well and defended.

-Crissa

[Stahlseele]

Everyone likes that art style. That's why it was sold so well and defended.

-Crissa

Yes, the Models WERE awesome, but that's not what i meant . .
In the back of most of the older battletech novels, there were pictures of some Mechs, usually the now unseen ones, but not only those, made in simple black and white style which looked very much like pencil drawings.
And that's what i meant with the art style. minimalistic, nothing too fancy.
No colours needed in most cases, grey-scale would suffice . . of course, seeing the old mechs in there would be nice too ^^

[Clutch9800]

Duane Loose was responsible for a lot of that art. He had (has) a very distinctive style that makes the drawings look like they were done on a drafting table.

I am a big fan of his work.

Clutch