The Shadowrun Situation

[A Man In Black]

If they are not mounted on horses anymore, are they still called mounties? O.o

For the same reason that the United States Marine Corps still have that name despite no longer being (chiefly) naval infantry. Tradition.

You are being completely irrational in your assessment of horses. For fuck's sake, your from England right? Before you shoot your mouth off some more, read up on London's own explanation.

Hey, let's look at more than that site than just the first hit on Google for "mounted police", hm?

Turns out the Metropolitan Police Service is just shy of 33,000 strong, with more park rangers than mounted police. There's less than one mounted officer for each police station in London. Looking at duties, it seems that they're used as much for PR situations like school visits and ceremonial duties as much as policing, and that the mounted branch is chiefly known for a horse show that chiefly serves as a PR/recruiting tool.

Mounted police are marginal, and today seem to be chiefly used out of tradition as much as anything.

[Lokathor]

I've yet to meet anyone who has actually, seriously ran an adventure off of a PDF on a laptop, so we're going to gloss over that option.

I run pre-made adventures exclusively from PDF copies of the adventure...

Except The Sunless Citadel, which I purchased, and Return To The Temple Of Elemental Evil, which I got used but then never seriously ran.

[crizh]

Hey, let's look at more than that site than just the first hit on Google for "mounted police", hm?

Looking at duties, it seems that they're used as much for PR situations like school visits and ceremonial duties as much as policing, and that the mounted branch is chiefly known for a horse show that chiefly serves as a PR/recruiting tool.

Mounted police are marginal, and today seem to be chiefly used out of tradition as much as anything.

The same pages also mention that during the season they attend 2 or 3 football matches per week. I think 2 or 3 massive potential riots per week is a pretty hefty workload and is far from a ceremonial role.

They reckon that a mounted officer is as effective as a dozen officers on foot at such events. Which means the Met is capable of projecting a force of approximately 2000 coppers to such events without coming over like the fucking Gestapo turning up mob handed spoiling for trouble.

The footage I was talking about early included a football match and the presence of the horse actually seemed to diffuse tension. The punters like the horses, they bring them apples and sugar cubes and come over to pet them. I imagine they would react differently to a dozen plod in full riot gear.

Christ, I'm sure I had some sort of point to make. Crowd control is a big and important job and I don't think that this will be any less the case in the Sixth World.

And no you can't use Freeze Foam on a fucking crowd to prevent it kicking off in the first place. That sort of gear is for when the faeces has already struck the rotating blades.

[Doom]

Statistics in a vacuum are so dangerous. Now, they have 120 horses, and this is said to be too small a number to have any relevance, and use of horses is dying out.

In 1805 the police force had 50 horses....so much for dying out, I'll let someone else check to see how much more population London has now as opposed to then (but London's been a major city for a LONG time).

So, it's pretty clear to me that horses have always had some, limited, use in actual police work, although if nature of the work changes dramatically (eg, Mounties, or cavalry units that are now tank units), they might well be eliminated entirely.

There are 250 dogs in London's police force, up from 172 in 1914.

[Roy]

...I'm taking bets on how many pages it takes before the topic shifts to the (in)feasibility of using unicorn mounts inside.

...Oh wait...

[Ganbare Gincun]

Mounted police are marginal, and today seem to be chiefly used out of tradition as much as anything.

This article is a few years old, but I think it sums up why police departments want to retain mounted units fairly well. They aren't a magical panacea for crime, but they are a valuable law enforcement tool that shouldn't be dismissed.

[Lokathor]

Mounted police are marginal, and today seem to be chiefly used out of tradition as much as anything.

This article is a few years old, but I think it sums up why police departments want to retain mounted units fairly well. They aren't a magical panacea for crime, but they are a valuable law enforcement tool that shouldn't be dismissed.

All other things considered, it's very hard to argue with a simple 10 nuyen a day upkeep.

[Neurosis]

The whole situation is freaking insane, not even a fucking a wrist slap for stealing 1 million dollars? From outsider perspective, It seems almost certain that other members of the company are involved or they're gullible morons. To be honest I am leaning towards the latter, you've got to be a fucking moron to embrace a person who burned you so badly.

On a separate note, how would go about a job application for senior management position for Catalyst Game Labs? I've got a mortgage to pay off.

edit: Sorry to come back, but it fucking bugs me that Loren L. Coleman is still involved with company even after basically admitting to either embezzlement or criminal incompetence. Either fucking way, he shouldn't be anywhere near the fucking company.

This thread is about unicorn cops now, get back on topic.

[Zinegata]

Statistics in a vacuum are so dangerous. Now, they have 120 horses, and this is said to be too small a number to have any relevance, and use of horses is dying out.

In 1805 the police force had 50 horses....so much for dying out, I'll let someone else check to see how much more population London has now as opposed to then (but London's been a major city for a LONG time).

For someone who wails about "not using statistics in a vacuum", you're also falling victim to it.

Firstly, yes, the site states that they only had 50 horses in 1805. But how big was the London Police force back then?

Well...

http://www.met.police.uk/history/timeline1829-1849.htm

The total police force back in 1830 was just 3,300 dudes. And they only became 3,300 after a "considerable increase".

So while the number of horses have doubled, the number of police officers have increased tenfold since then (plus another 20,000 staff and support crews).

Really, you're now deliberately using statistics in a dishonest manner.

So, it's pretty clear to me that horses have always had some, limited, use in actual police work, although if nature of the work changes dramatically (eg, Mounties, or cavalry units that are now tank units), they might well be eliminated entirely.

Again, you're arguing against the people who are pointing out that mounted units only have limited use. In short, you're arguing against the people making the very argument you claim to champion.

Again, only Frank is arguing that they are currently hugely useful (proven totally and conclusively false). Stop sucking his cock.

[TheFlatline]

I've yet to meet anyone who has actually, seriously ran an adventure off of a PDF on a laptop, so we're going to gloss over that option.

I run pre-made adventures exclusively from PDF copies of the adventure...

Except The Sunless Citadel, which I purchased, and Return To The Temple Of Elemental Evil, which I got used but then never seriously ran.

I'll stand corrected. Some people do run adventures off of a laptop/PC.

But it makes my head hurt thinking about it. I have trouble using OCR/search-capable PDFs for reference during game time. I can just see the DM looking at what's behind the door we open, when he gets an IM from his girlfriend, and spends 3 or 4 minutes chatting with her while we wait.

[Pixels]

I'll stand corrected. Some people do run adventures off of a laptop/PC.

But it makes my head hurt thinking about it. I have trouble using OCR/search-capable PDFs for reference during game time. I can just see the DM looking at what's behind the door we open, when he gets an IM from his girlfriend, and spends 3 or 4 minutes chatting with her while we wait.

We have a lot of people in our games. The Storyteller has no time to dally when he's juggling eight runners. Plus we have some scripts for keeping track of rolls and initiative and all that jazz, so the computer actually speeds things up noticeably.

On the other hand, the players with laptops tend to be easily distracted.

[Neurosis]

I don't allow laptops at my table when GMing way too distracting, except for me (TO reference PDFs, and to track initiative/health during combat), and even then "nothing not related to the game on the screen, not even minimized" is a fairly firm rule.

[Otakusensei]

It all depends on the table. We used to have laptop issues, but when they went away people still talked. So I made an effort to focus on any character who's player was talking at least once per session, seems to keep things on track more. I don't mind laptops anymore than I mind cell phones, I just have to be more interesting.

Outside of games I run I keep my character sheets on my laptop and if you don't allow laptops, or an exception for me, I'm out. I feel it's the player's responsibility to pay attention and the GM's responsibility to make sure there's something interesting enough to warrant it. But no group is going to perfect every night and sometimes it's fun to have a brief interlude. However I'll admit that as soon as someone is turning the screen around to show everyone the hilarious thing they found on 4chan, you're basically fucked and need to change strategy.

[Lokathor]

I'll stand corrected. Some people do run adventures off of a laptop/PC.

But it makes my head hurt thinking about it.

Pixels plays in the games I do, and he summed it up pretty well.

Read the adventure once or twice, then note the page with appropriate stat blocks and reference them during the game. Also, read-aloud text can be read directly from the PDF in an accented/silly announcer voice as well. Laptop use is also for initiative management and rolling of dice pools (shadowrun) or step numbers (earthdawn). Pixels also GMs with a laptop, and he does similar things.

The players are easily distracted by their laptops though, so I think i'll be taking those away for a while.

[Stahlseele]

STURM! DRANG!

STOMM! DROKK!


Yes, i realize that this comes pretty late, but i just remembered this <.<

[Troll]

http://www.shadowrun4.com/wordpress/wp- ... ostage.jpg


Apparently "Not Getting rid of Coleman" wasn't enough. They're sending him to Conventions to continue "facing" for Shadowrun 4A.

Also, they've managed to be flippant with the companies current troubles, they thought it would be funny to post on the main page of their that they would consider spending money to get Mr. Coleman back from this team of cosplay Shadowrunnners.

Sorry to interrupt the Unicorn debates, I just found this amusingly inappropriate given the Coleman-mixed-finances-debacle.


*Edited because I use BBCode about as effectively as monkeys use hand grenades.

[Neurosis]

Troll: Beat me to it.

I was just about to link to/comment on the same thing.

I've been striving mightily hard not to condemn CGL but do they just not CARE about the segment of the player base who is at the very least extremely put off by this entire thing? I wouldn't think Coleman would be at the very least swept under the carpet for a year or so.

On a lighter note, that is a pretty sweet troll (in the picture).

[Stahlseele]

The guy in the hat reminds me of a buddy of mine somehow O.o

[Zinegata]

To be perfectly honest the Unicorn debates had pretty much been won and lost. There are just some insurgent hold outs .

Carry on with burning Coleman's effigy.

[Endovior]

I think the conclusion reached there was that, while there are certainly reasons that might come up in which Unicorns might be employed in a police capacity, the problems associated with their use, and the practicality of other easier methods, largely limit such use to ceremonial and specialty tasks. I could see a small mounted force being kept on hand to deal with mages or something, for example; given their anti-magical abilities... and if a given area needs that sort of magical security, perhaps they might do routine patrols in addition to conventional forces, as an obvious but more 'friendly' alternative to heavily armed and armored forces. After all, I'd imagine it's probably cheaper and easier to breed unicorns then it is to train and retain mages. Even so, I'd imagine that, as meta-creatures go, you'll see K9 units far more often; dogs (especially super-powered ones) are far more suited to your average police needs then horses are.

[Username17]

Giving Loren Coleman "face presence" for SR is pretty weird. He never contributed anything worthwhile to the Shadowrun franchise. He was just a corporate suit. His only job was to cut paychecks to people who were actually making SR go, and he didn't do that job acceptably at any point.

They could have him facing for Battletech, because he did write a bunch of Battletech material. It's arguable if it was any good, but it did exist. Having him facing for SR is just them wagging their penis in our faces.

As for Unicorns, no one is suggesting that the cop on a unicorn is going to replace the cop in a car or the cop on foot or the cop on a bicycle or the cop on a motorcycle. All of those will continue to exist. But the cop on a unicorn is going to replace a cop on a horse, because it is better than a horse. It is smarter, tougher, and has magic fucking powers. Horse cops will continue to exist and continue to have a purpose for as far as the future is foreseeable at all. Unicorns and Griffins and shit represent a technological advancement in horses, something that hasn't happened in our own world in five hundred years. But it would be pretty weird if the cops didn't make use of it.

-Username17

[Zinegata]

Wow. Frank actually backtracked. Now if he'd actually apologize to knasser for calling him a retard when "Unicorn cops are at best a niche and highly anachronistic unit in the face of the modern world" was knasser's entire point all along.

[Wesley Street]

http://www.shadowrun4.com/wordpress/wp- ... ostage.jpg

Props to the dude who made the full on troll outfit, complete with horns. That beats the lazy-ass "stick on some elf ears and don a leather jacket" approach of most SR costumers.

[Stahlseele]

Well, maybe they want to show the people who is at fault . .
Give the blame a face.

[Ancient History]

Back on topic, the motion asking for the bond(s) was withdrawn by CGL.