What if Evocation didn't suck?

[Brobdingnagian]

Exalted damage also exists.

[Judging__Eagle]

You know what?

Fvck you, with sexual harrasment on top.

I bet only cleric spells can deal Exalted damage, right?



Wait... it's like Vile damage, only you have to be in an unhallowed area to heal it, right?

That's uber lame.

[RandomCasualty]

1175903611[/unixtime]]Each of the energy types are supposed to represent one of the four classical elements, so Earth has to have something. Acid is stupid though. How about we just let Earth spells deal physical damage?

I'm all for that. I'd say earth should probably deal magic bludgeoning damage (and be subject to DR). On the good side, earth would also be immune to resistances, since it's just dealing physical damage.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

This is slightly off the subject, but I got into a long argument with someone on IRC who basically said if they made evocation any good, then that's the only school that anyone would ever take.

Note this was in response to me saying the orb spells should be evocation.

[Cielingcat]

So wait, he's saying if that Evocation was equal in power to the other schools, no one would use them? I mean sure, blowing shit up is cool, but what the fuck? That's like an argument once posted on WotC about why Fighters had to suck, which was that they had to because otherwise people would min/max them and be powerful.

Goddamnit, why'd you have to tell us that? Now I'm all angry and depressed.

[Brobdingnagian]

Sucker. I was depressed long before I heard that. I am unaffected by this news.

[User3]

I'm actually working on totally rewriting evocation right now, so expect a full evocation 0th-9th level spell list in a few days (motivation dependent). As I'm close to done with the standard 'element' spells at this point, I really just need to flesh out some force and sonic options before I don't care anymore.

I'm still sad that I'm taking Fireball as a paragon of 3rd level spell balance, but what can you do?

[Brobdingnagian]

Give Fireball the ability to bounce off walls.

It suddenly becomes much more useful in, say, a 10 x 10 room. I think that little boost makes it properly balanced.

[User3]

1175970167[/unixtime]]Exalted damage also exists.

Don't forget Light damage, which "overcomes damage reduction of any type". Way to go, Lantern Archon.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

1176064872[/unixtime]]So wait, he's saying if that Evocation was equal in power to the other schools, no one would use them? I mean sure, blowing shit up is cool, but what the fvck? That's like an argument once posted on WotC about why Fighters had to suck, which was that they had to because otherwise people would min/max them and be powerful.

Goddamnit, why'd you have to tell us that? Now I'm all angry and depressed.

I said that the orb spells should be in evocation since it's energy. I also said that Conjurations didn't need the orb spells because it was already one of the more powerful magic schools already.

He said that they were too good for evocation.

I said if they were energy themed spells (evocation's schtick), and they were too good for evocation, then they shouldn't exist at all by his logic.

He then started getting all pissy with me.

I don't talk to that person anymore.

[bitnine]

Eh, you could always cut out the middleman and just make damage itself mess you right the hell up. Penalties and fail chances and lost actions and all that jazz. Then people might actually care about things that deal hit point damage.

[Brobdingnagian]

But that doesn't make a real difference between the Fireball-tossing Wizard and the axe-wielding Barbarian. It's hard to make a difference and still be balanced.

[AlphaNerd]

Light Ray (Ex)

A lantern archon’s light rays have a range of 30 feet. This attack overcomes damage reduction of any type.

What type of damage do those deal? None. There is no "light" damage.

[Brobdingnagian]

They deal damage of the 'awesome' type. You know, 'cause they're Celestials.

[bitnine]

1176146721[/unixtime]]But that doesn't make a real difference between the Fireball-tossing Wizard and the axe-wielding Barbarian. It's hard to make a difference and still be balanced.

I imagine you'd use some sort of categorization. Least->Lesser->Greater or whatever you have.

Fire Least = Burning, Fire Lesser = Dazed, Fire Greater = Immolated

Axe Least = Bleeding, Axe Lesser = Chopped Up, Axe Greater = Decapitated

Or something like that.

[Brobdingnagian]

Is there a practical difference between "Chopped Up" and "Decapitated"?

I get your point, but your examples are a little silly. Chopped Up seems a trifle better (for the non-chopped person) than Dazed.

[Catharz]

Toasty->Burning->Immolated & Bleeding->Injured->Chopped Up

[Immortius]

"Chopped Up"? "Toasty"? Sounds like the recipe for Iron Chef D20.

[bitnine]

1176187791[/unixtime]]Toasty->Burning->Immolated & Bleeding->Injured->Chopped Up

Of course, that carries the negative factor of the wizard's player yelling "Toasty!" every time he casts a low-level fire spell. I was thinking of "Chopped Up" being more in the lines of covered in gashes and missing a toe or two than being cloven into a multitude, by the way.

Immolated: Yeah, being on fire is nice compared to this. Thick sheets of reaving flames are all up in your bidness, messing you right the hell up. There's something like 5d6 damage a round. Everyone else has the benefits of cover and concealment. Concentration is a bitch, even with your ridiculous skill-boosting item. Also, those spell components in your hand? Ash. On the plus side, give someone a bear hug and they'll take some fire damage too.

[Brobdingnagian]

Woot, let's immolate Zangeif.

[Prak]

1175923580[/unixtime]]

1175891867[/unixtime]]So let's list a few secondary effects for direct damage spells by type.

Fire

• Reflex save or catch on fire
  
• Will save or be blinded for 1d4 rounds
  
• Fort save or be somethinged

Fortitude save or you're overcome by the smoke. That's usually nausea, right? Or sickened?

1175891867[/unixtime]]Electricity

• Reflex save or be knocked prone
  
• Fort save or be stunned for 1d4 rounds
  
• Will save or be somethinged

Shaken might be a good condition for the will save.

1175891867[/unixtime]]Acid

• Fort save or be... turned into water and a salt?
  
• Reflex save or... be disfigured?
  
• Screw this, acid is a crappy energy type. It isn't even fvcking energy.

It doesn't matter that it isn't "energy," it's still direct damage. And yes, it's best thought of in terms of acid fogs. The 'elemental correspondances' were just dumb.

1175891867[/unixtime]]Cold

• Fort save or be slowed
  
• Will save or something
  
• Reflex save or be stuck in place for an amount of time

Something with shivering

or possibly something more conducive to Coldballs jokes...

[bitnine]

1176228064[/unixtime]]Woot, let's immolate Zangeif.

Heh, one of my previous characters was a Barbarian-type with Blazing Berserker who traveled with a Tiefling-type pyrokineticist. The party's metastrategy did routinely include pinning down enemies and lighting buildings on fire while laughing maniacally.

[User3]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... r][br]Just food for thought here...I guess this is the "official" line of WotC:

The warmage has ten dead levels, but remains unequalled in their ability to deal arcane damage. The warmage knows and can spontaneously cast virtually all of the most potent evocation spells. These are in turn augmented by bonus feats, extra damage per spell, and their ability to learn whatever new evocation spells strike their fancy. The intense specialty of warmages, however, comes at the sacrifice of a utilitarian purpose. Their dead level ability plays into their existing focus.

[Cielingcat]

Translated version:

We fucked up with the Warmage, but we don't want to admit it so we'll claim they're actually worthwhile.

[RandomCasualty]

Honestly I don't think WotC even understands the problem with evocation. These are the very same people who thought that specializing in divination was worse than specializing in any other school.

They still feel as though fireballing everything is the best tactic in the game. All I can think of is that they expect DMs to use a lot more hordes of weenies, which is where DD spells really come into their prime.