Some unpopular questions that need to be asked.

[tzor]

And the irony is, that's also the way George W. Bush does things. So much for McCain's "I'm not Bush" shtick.

Actually that's not the way Bush did things. Bush has a habit of letting things fly over his head like the space shuttle and then to fit in his previous ideas even when the facts no longer (if they ever did) suport it. After all, he was planning on invading Iraq long before 9/11. From 9/11 to Katrina we have a proven record of Bush taking "20" on all his rolls. (And then often failing because he choose the bard class and thus fails at everything.)

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I believe Colbert made a comment something along the lines of that Bush is a man who thinks the same things on Wednesday that he thought on Monday, regardless of what happened on Tuesday.

Or something of that nature.

[Absentminded_Wizard]

And the irony is, that's also the way George W. Bush does things. So much for McCain's "I'm not Bush" shtick.

Actually that's not the way Bush did things. Bush has a habit of letting things fly over his head like the space shuttle and then to fit in his previous ideas even when the facts no longer (if they ever did) suport it. After all, he was planning on invading Iraq long before 9/11. From 9/11 to Katrina we have a proven record of Bush taking "20" on all his rolls. (And then often failing because he choose the bard class and thus fails at everything.)

So the difference is that Bush makes decisions slowly and still doesn't do any analysis?

I believe Colbert made a comment something along the lines of that Bush is a man who thinks the same things on Wednesday that he thought on Monday, regardless of what happened on Tuesday.

Yep. At the Washington Correspondents' Dinner one year. And you got it pretty much word for word.

[tzor]

Yes I would say that it is a pretty good analysis. Only it's not exact to say "he" doesn't do any analysis, others do that sort of thing, but he's not listening. Eventually people realize this and feed him only the eye candy that he wants to see (like weapons of mass destruction).

McCain isn't like that. Simply put McCain isn't Bush. That doesn't make him better and it doesn't make it worse. Frankly everyone has their own brand of personal shit. The trick is to select a candidate whose shit doesn't smell as offensive to your nose. IF you think someone's shit doesn't stink ... GET A NOSE JOB!

[Crissa]

WTF are you on, tzor?

That Bush and McCain are different people has little to do with that their policies are exactly the same.

A blue sheet with white spots and a blue sheet with white flowers are both blue and get laundered the same way, even if they don't match on the bed.

-Crissa

[Calibron]

IF you think someone's shit doesn't stink ... GET A NOSE JOB!

Wow, you'll manage to cram wordplay in to your posts even if it kills you, eh? I hear ya though, there's a good reason to hate just about any political candidate.

[Neeeek]

WTF are you on, tzor?

That Bush and McCain are different people has little to do with that their policies are exactly the same.

He wasn't talking about policies, he was talking about thought and decision-making processes.

Both Bush and McCain have functionally insane decision-making processes: Bush fails to incorporate reality into his, McCain fails to take the necessary time to consider the consequences of his actions. They both suck, just in different ways.

[Crissa]

You'd have to be an idiot to vote Republican.

"You called me an idiot! You elitist! I won't listen to you!"

...And this breaks the point how?

-Crissa

[Calibron]

It's not a point, it's an unbacked opinion made by a narrow-minded party-line democrat.

[Crissa]

Narrow-minded. Party-line. Unbacked.

Is it, now?

Please, inform me how it's not backed. And then you can go on about how it's the party line. And lastly, you can get around to explaining how it's narrow-minded to exclude liars and criminals from one's leaders.

But you won't, because you're either an idiot or a troll looking for an argument.

-Crissa

[Prak]

Strictly speaking, if we want to be fair (yes, I know, I'm going to go get myself drug tested when I finish this post...), then one could vote republican based on strongly held beliefs, such as the wrongness of abortion, the foolishness of gun control, the lie of evolution, and not be an idiot because they are voting what they believe. Voting republican to try and end abortion isn't idiotic because it has it's own good end, it promotes life (yes, I know, it also makes some people miserable, but it does promote life). Voting republican to stave off gun control isn't idiotic because our own country's history has shown us the corruption of leaders and the neccessity of being able to fight back. Voting republican because you want schools to teach creationism isn't, again, we're being fair, idiotic, it's just ignorant and honestly an insult to the person's imaginary friend up in the sky.

Being party-line, voting republican because your spouse does, voting republican because you were raised to, etc, are all idiotic.

Technically "you'd have to be an idiot" isn't party line, but that's what Caliborn seems to think of you, and excluding liars and criminals from one's leaders isn't narrow minded because they've already shown a distaste for the laws of society, and so aren't fit to lead such.

[Koumei]

Voting republican to stave off gun control isn't idiotic because our own country's history has shown us the corruption of leaders and the neccessity of being able to fight back.

When was the last time that actually happened? Seriously, being allowed to own your own handgun, shotgun, assault rifle and gatling gun isn't going to save you if the leaders decide to curb-stomp you. See, it turns out they have a whole lot of people. With body armour and a variety of weapons. Heck, if you *really* pissed them off, they have tanks and missiles.

Having a gun seriously isn't going to protect you from the leaders. You'd need your own nation, basically. And I don't recall the populace rising up against their government, in arms, any time recently. And even if they did, I'll refer you to the bit about trained armies with expensive weaponry and tanks and shit.

Oh, and Criss said...

And lastly, you can get around to explaining how it's narrow-minded to exclude liars and criminals from one's leaders.

For a start, you wouldn't have a politician as a leader. Effectively, you'd be electing someone who doesn't want to run the country. Or, quite possibly, you'd be disqualifying every single person on the planet.

[tzor]

Believe it or not there are "honest" politicians. Too bad they only exist as rare examples on the local level and then probably for not that long.

[JonSetanta]

Democrats and Republicans both suck.
The difference is that Democrat decisions tend to sway in my favor, and as such, that gets my vote.

At this point I wouldn't care if Obama runs a brothel and deals crack, I'm still voting for him.
What's with the hype about Gen-X losing interest because suddenly he's a "brand"?

[tzor]

At this point I wouldn't care if Obama runs a brothel and deals crack, I'm still voting for him.

Well I'd care, although I'm not too sure how I would care. I mean both are generally illegal and since you have put it in the present tense it's not a good idea for a person who is running for office to be doing illegal things at the same time as that's practically insta impeachment or worse disqualification because you are serving in a federal slammer.

(It's like the problem with McCain, you would like to vote for a person who has a reasonable change of serving his full term in office.)

Don't forget the former has a whole lot of tax evasion problems. Al Capone was eventually caught on that, it's the nastiest law ever written.

Not that anyone is suggesting that the above two are true. If I don't vote for Obama it is mostly because in general I don't really agree with a lot of his ideas for what he wants to do with the country. (It also has to do with the fact that my state is so solidly Democratic that the thought it might tip towards Republican is actually an interesting notion to entertain.)

[Crissa]

If I don't vote for Obama it is mostly because in general I don't really agree with a lot of his ideas for what he wants to do with the country.

What things are you against, again? I mean, the real ones, not the rumors from fundieland.

Also, I'd like to amend my prior comment about Republicans to include their habit of only speaking to supporters and hiding from the rest of us. See Bush & Bubble or Cheney/Palin & Bunker. Oh, and making us foot the bill...

-Crissa

[angelfromanotherpin]

Also, I'd like to amend my prior comment about Republicans to include their habit of only speaking to supporters and hiding from the rest of us. See Bush & Bubble or Cheney/Palin & Bunker. Oh, and making us foot the bill...

-Crissa

I couldn't catch a ferry across the harbor this last Independence Day. The entire harbor of Boston was shut down. Because Dick Cheney was visiting the Constitution. This meant I also couldn't visit the Constitution.

The part that gets me is that the Vice-President was visiting Boston and the Constitution on Independence Day, and nobody knew about it. It wasn't in the press, there wasn't a speech, there was nothing. He came in, shut down the harbor and a major tourist point, and then buggered off again, almost no-one the wiser. What the hell?

[Koumei]

At this point I wouldn't care if Obama runs a brothel and deals crack, I'm still voting for him.

Well I'd care, although I'm not too sure how I would care. I mean both are generally illegal

Wait, brothels are illegal in America? *blinks*

Wow, sucks to be you.

[Calibron]

Well, thank you very much Prak, you said that very well and saved me the effort of having to further explain myself to Crissa.

And yes Crissa, from what I've seen, which I recognize is probably a very shallow layer of your personality since I only see you here, you are narrow-minded and when challenged you become immediately combative; presumably so you never have to look too closely and re-evaluate your views.

[Neeeek]

Wait, brothels are illegal in America? *blinks*

Outside of rural Nevada, yes.

[Crissa]

...you are narrow-minded and when challenged you become immediately combative; presumably so you never have to look too closely and re-evaluate your views.

Would you extend that to Frank as well, then?

-Crissa

[tzor]

If I don't vote for Obama it is mostly because in general I don't really agree with a lot of his ideas for what he wants to do with the country.

What things are you against, again? I mean, the real ones, not the rumors from fundieland.

It's late so I will only give a couple of reasons at the moment. Note that there is a vast difference between "I don't agree" and "Oh my God he's going to kill us all."

First I don't like his attitude towards Afghanistan. I think he is too gunge ho, too, dare I say this "Bush like" in his attitude. The implication is that he would push the problem into Pakistan. Last time I checked they are a nuclear power. Personally I don't trust civilians because they are too easy to go to the war solution for everything. Remember for all practical purposes Bush was a civilian; his military experience was all about avoiding actual combat.

Second I don't like his approach to global warming. Last time I checked the news the Cap and Trade system in Europe was raising yellow if not red flags. The capitalist in me rejoices in such a market but the empirical data brings parallels to the bizzaro world of Enron's energy trading. Just in the past few days a major commodity fund went belly up.

Third I don't like his approach to health care. One of the fundamental changes in the recent decades is the complete loss of the old notion of working in one place until you retire. People move from one job to another more frequently than they change houses. You don't tie your car insurance to your workplace, you don't tie your life insurance to your workplace, why do we still tie our health insurance to our workplace? Why should people be afraid of changing jobs because of the re-evaluation that they would get every time they changed jobs? We need to break these old chains. Obama still ties his plan to work plans. McCain, oddly enough doesn't.

I'm not sure but I don't like his plan on taxing the rich. It's sort of like the problem with corporate taxes, the really rich have the funds to hire the accountants to ensure that they can avoid paying their share. I don't trust the general numbers because everyone who gives them tends to have some sort of agenda or they are not looking at the total picture. With China taking a huge portion of our National Debt this has now become a national security issue. Chinese banks are starting to enter the US market ... in a decade or so they may completely own us.

And frankly I don't trust him on the aisle crossing and working towards compromise. I seem to recall Bush originally making that promise as well. In fact for all the jokes about McSame, I seem more in common with the attitudes and styles between Obama and Bush; for example his unwillingness to see that the surge actually worked. The thought that Obama may be the Democratic Bush worries me ... a lot.

[PhoneLobster]

Only a right wing nut job would declare he will be voting republican because the democrat candidates policies aren't left wing enough for his liking.

Unsurprisingly guess what Tzor just did!

[angelfromanotherpin]

The thought that Obama may be the Democratic Bush worries me ... a lot.

o rly?

[Optimator]

o rly?

Niiiice.