Meh, more stuff
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Frank wrote:
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Catharz wrote:
Finally, have serpent men dropped off the world? Because, honestly, I think that snakes eat moles and should therefore have precedence
My personal preference is starkly pro serpent men. I mean, I played a Follower of Set as a LARP character for years. I like serpent men quite a bit and want to put them in somewhere. But the question is where? While serpent men show up fairly frequently in WoD material, they show up as minor characters most of the time because the serpent man shtick got hacked up between a whole lot of different serpent people.
So here's places they can be put:
Vampires: The Ventrue could plausibly get a more Settite vibe and just be serpent men in addition to Draculesque aristocrats. That would do a nice tie-in with Lair of the White Worm and remains highly plausible.
Lycanthropes: No fucking way. Mokole were stupid, and the idea of a weresnake is stupid even by were-reptile standards.
Prometheans: While at first it seems completely implausible to fit serpent men in here, you actually could go in on Androids. After all, primary inspiration source is Metropolis, and we could emphasize the whole demonic temptress robot angle. Mix in some Mona Lisa Overdrie voodoo programming, and you have some genuine (if weird) cross generational mythic resonance. Still, probably not.
Transhumans: Maybe the Fallen could all be given their metaphorical apples by snake demons? Fuck, I got nothing.
Leviathan: Well the obvious place to put them in is the Naga. Semi aquatic snake men literally descended from the dragon god slain by Marduk. Doesn't get much better than that. Except that there's already a semi-aquatic scaled Leviathan group that has first dibs. The Creature From The Black Lagoon shares identity with the Deep Ones from HP Lovecraft, and those are collectively the same as Naga close as makes no odds. Indeed, a fair number of people are confused as to whether the Creature is a fish or a reptile, so if we were to squeeze serpent men in here we wouldn't give them their own place we'd just broaden the focus of the deep ones slightly.
Witches: We have pretty clear skies as far as magical special effects. Necromancy could be all Conanesque or Voodoo and have snakes everywhere. Or Illusion could be all Chandurific and be covered in snake charming all the time. Or Demonology could be totally Jafar and go serpenty and make demonic snakes out of shadow and fire. The thing with Witches is that they don't have an established set of must-haves, nor do they have a set of consistent special effects. Mages in WoD hae always done "everything" which means that by the time you nail them down to anything you've pretty much created a flavor. And that flavor could be whatever you wanted.
So I feel confident that snake men can fit in somewhere. But care has to be taken that it doesn't end up with snake men everywhere like in both of the WoD variants.
-Username17
aWoD: Continued
Moderator: Moderators
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Catharz wrote:
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The 'flavor' of snake I'm looking for is dry and ancient. Something that slides down old stone passages and across crumbling tomes (yes, "tomes", although "tombs" work too). Something, perhaps, that can shed its skin, leaving behind the dusty wrappings.
I can see that fitting, as you suggest, with the Ventrue, although with an altogether more Egyptian feel. They would also work well as leviathans, but aquatic is entirely the wrong feel. They would have to be replacement mole people, which would force mole people into the transhuman category. I think that mole people fit better as transhumans anyway, assuming you really want to keep them. In most cases, ghouls and other troglodytes are viewed as "degenerate" humans.
Finally, Egyptian-flavored magic was suggested from the beginning, and I think it's an awesome idea. While Egyptian magic of Darkness doesn't need to have any snake flavor what so ever, it does fit quite nicely. Even as religions go, the Egyptian is fairly death obsessed, and that fits well with the gloom.
While The Followers of Set offer an easy way to create Egyptian snake-flavored necromancer witches, I don't think that snake-flavored quite fits the "serpent people" bill. My vote, assuming votes mean anything, goes to serpent gloom leviathans. Failing that, serpent Ventrue are a good backup.
Catharz wrote:
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The 'flavor' of snake I'm looking for is dry and ancient. Something that slides down old stone passages and across crumbling tomes (yes, "tomes", although "tombs" work too). Something, perhaps, that can shed its skin, leaving behind the dusty wrappings.
I can see that fitting, as you suggest, with the Ventrue, although with an altogether more Egyptian feel. They would also work well as leviathans, but aquatic is entirely the wrong feel. They would have to be replacement mole people, which would force mole people into the transhuman category. I think that mole people fit better as transhumans anyway, assuming you really want to keep them. In most cases, ghouls and other troglodytes are viewed as "degenerate" humans.
Finally, Egyptian-flavored magic was suggested from the beginning, and I think it's an awesome idea. While Egyptian magic of Darkness doesn't need to have any snake flavor what so ever, it does fit quite nicely. Even as religions go, the Egyptian is fairly death obsessed, and that fits well with the gloom.
While The Followers of Set offer an easy way to create Egyptian snake-flavored necromancer witches, I don't think that snake-flavored quite fits the "serpent people" bill. My vote, assuming votes mean anything, goes to serpent gloom leviathans. Failing that, serpent Ventrue are a good backup.
Again, Frank probably has this
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More from Frank:
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FrankTrollman wrote:
TA wrote:
Clan... Weakness?
This is a great idea. Putting the Nosferatu deal in as a social advantage when they want to be scary instead of as a penalty when they don't is perfect.
Keep in mind that they can face a penalty of some sort... especially if they then attempt to be fluffy right after scaring the shit out of everyone. The appropriate response that people should have is staring blankly at them and going "what." That won't work. But the penalty must be an opt-in event, because that is seriously one of the few ways we'll make the player actually remember it (and abide by playing to it). Here, I'll demonstrate.
The Vampire Clans
So, nWoD attempted to pare the numbers of vampires in fiction and mythology down to five, and did so with ease. However, honestly, some of those were still a little superfluous, especially if we're trying to make our vampire archetypes as broad as possible, so let's be honest. Frank is right, there are basically three vampire archetypes extant.
Nosferatu
"I'm gonna mongle your cock!"
These are the vampires that no one likes to think about, because they're ugly. Or at least terrifying. They originate from the old, old myths about vampires, the ones which didn't talk about the vampire as a creature of romance, but instead insinuated that they were slain werewolves, or just revenant corpses, who returned to the grave each night. The fact that many seem to look like tuberculosis victims, or rather, the corpses thereof, is not accidental. They are still lords of darkness in their own way, but it is in the most raw, terrifying manner possible. This is Count Orlok, from the movie Nosferatu itself.
The most seemly of these creatures still looks the most like a corpse, even amongst beings that are walking corpses. The rest are often bestial... not animalistic in a kind, gentle way, but rather possessed of abominations of traits seen elsewhere. Some lose any hair they had, and instead grow a greasy or even lurid green mat over the rest of their form. All radiate a disconcerting mien, for they are unable to entirely conceal the Beast's hunger within them, and even when they manage to hide it in appearance, it often shines through in their demeanor.
Because of their strong affinity with the monster inside them and its feral qualities, they can also communicate with less undead beasts well, and even assume their forms with a certain readiness. There are legends, after all, of vampires rising from the corpses of werewolves who were not properly disposed of. As far as the Nosferatu of today, know, however, they're only legends, confused ramblings, and you would be best off ignoring Elder Uncle Smashface. The Nosferatu prefer Protean and Animalism, though they're by no means the only practitioners thereof. They also typically master Obfuscation in order to conceal their horrific miens... or just ambush prey.
As a consequence of the grisly metamorphosis that the Embrace of the Nosferatu introduces, all Nosferatu, including their Spawn, acquire the Basic Protean ability of Body Weaponry, often as it rips through their flesh, their teeth lengthen into a bloody maw of fangs, and claws sprout from their digits. Often Nosferatu find the more challenging lesson is how to retract these and look relatively normal again. All Illuminated Nosferatu also possess a stronger personality. When making an attempt to intimidate or terrify someone, they may add 3 dice. This explicitly may apply to uses of Animalism which cow or terrifying beast, but not soothe or merely interact, and likewise to any hunting-related rolls where the Nosferatu is stalking and harrying prey into terror and exhaustion. After using this advantage, however, a Nosferatu subtracts 3 dice from any attempt to make them appear polite, friendly, or otherwise anything but the horrific monster they just revealed themselves to be.
Daeva
"They had forgotten the first lesson, that we are to be powerful, beautiful, and without regret."
These vampires are sexy, but also vaguely infernal, the most likely to be akin to fallen angels, because if Nosferatu are the incarnation of the worst aspects of humanity, and Ventrue are the mind thereof, they are essentially the sexualization of those. These vampires are terrible people because they can do awful things to you and you often will enjoy it, and that is exactly why Lestat has so much appeal.
Accordingly, the Daeva are beautiful and terrifying. Each one of them looks perfectly eerie and enchanting. You cannot escape it. You cannot escape them. Whereas others are dominating or overpowering, they are hypnotic and graceful. Looking upon one of them is often rather akin to gazing upon a marble sculpture. In spite of this unnatural quality, no one seems to question their nature. They belong, even if only in the darkness of your own soul.
With their strong attunement to the energies of Pandemonium, they favor the Discipline of Celerity, which allows them to move in the fluid, timeless, yet madly disjointed manner that is the normal passage of things in Hell. This section needs more nuance, but mostly more Disciplines for me to consider for them.
All Daeva are proficient in Basic Celerity, which grants them Nimble Feet. With this they may move in the way the denizens of Pandemonium are accustomed to, skipping along past unnecessary seconds in order to more rapidly close on their prey. In addition, they are supreme predators and understand their prey untuitively. If an Illuminated Daeva has taken to hypnotizing their prey with their fine appearance, then when called on to make any check to understand or out-think their target, albeit not persuade or seduce, they gain a 3 die bonus. However, they suffer a 3 die penalty on any attempt to make themselves concealed in any which way for the remainder of the scene, and while they may mislead others as to who they are this will also hinder any attempt to disguise themselves. This obviously requires them to interact with their subject.
Ventrue
"Welcome to my house! Enter freely and of your own free will!"
Ventrue are those vampires who are often seen in movies. They are the master vampire, the lord of the undead. They are Dracula. They are implacable, and difficult to strike down. As a consequence, they must be presented as domineering overlords. However, since they are a Clan of vampires, we must be able to present them in a fashion consistent with that. Accordingly, more "introductory" level characters should still feel overwhelming even though they're in fact just a midboss at best.
Be they warlords cursed by God, or mages who sold their soul for eternal life, the Ventrue are vampires as nothing more or less terrifying than dead people walking again. Emphasis on people... cunning, ruthless people. Many Ventrue are so power hungry that it was they who made themselves vampires instead of simply being chosen by an elder, though reports of this being achieved without another vampire being involved in some regard are largely apocryphal.
They are closest to the energy of death itself, and it gives them a certain gravity. Exposed to it, the mortal mind is crushed, allowing the vampire to easily reorder their thoughts according to their will. Supernaturals are rarely so fragile, but can still be manipulated similarly. Their bodies are seemingly immune to injury, as well, as they are most keenly aware of how already dead they are, and easily may shrug off pain.
Insert line about automatic Discipline here. Probably Awe or Fortitude or something.
Ventrue are often singleminded, obsessive maniacs. Even the more calm, collected individuals who usually keep things in perspective eventually snap and acquire some obsession which can someitmes gnaw on them for the rest of their existence. When an Illuminated Ventrue decides to fixate on a single point of obsession in a scene, whoever or whatever that is, she gains 3 dice on any roll to resist any attempt to stop her, including physical restraints, grapples, and even breaking down stationary obstacles like walls, although not fighting through enemy combatants, as except for escaping holds, they are only barriers in the most figurative sense. They subtract 3 dice from any attempts to retreat from their objective, however, including doing other things which require a retreat or even postponing pursuing it.
Some Notes
I structured these the way I did so as to try to emphasize what I felt were advantages the Clan should have while not giving them direct benefits to the "stereotypical" focus. This is why I avoided giving Daeva a bonus on seduction, Nosferatu a bonus to stealth, and Ventrue a bonus to any kind of Dominate action. I wanted to give them benefits that could help them in the kinds of actions they're likely to get into even without reinforcing those stereotypes, but instead reinforcing mostly negative stereotypes. The +3/-3 choice was because from what I remember of Shadowrun that is enough to just about always make people sit up and take notice without overshadowing every other modifier ever, although it is quite large.
I handed out a freebie Discipline to everyone partially because I consider vampirism to be equivalent to magical initiation (because in a sense it is) and as a consequence they'd gain at least one point of Magic. Accordingly there was room to preselect one of those points of kewl powerz, which I did to reinforce Clan traits a bit more and also give an identifying characteristic to Spawn vampires of that Clan, which would be consistent.
Also, I think Illuminated is a good word to use.
Feel free to throw things at me for any or all of this. It's just a (really rough, unfinished) draft.
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More from Frank:
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FrankTrollman wrote:
TA wrote:
Clan... Weakness?
This is a great idea. Putting the Nosferatu deal in as a social advantage when they want to be scary instead of as a penalty when they don't is perfect.
Keep in mind that they can face a penalty of some sort... especially if they then attempt to be fluffy right after scaring the shit out of everyone. The appropriate response that people should have is staring blankly at them and going "what." That won't work. But the penalty must be an opt-in event, because that is seriously one of the few ways we'll make the player actually remember it (and abide by playing to it). Here, I'll demonstrate.
The Vampire Clans
So, nWoD attempted to pare the numbers of vampires in fiction and mythology down to five, and did so with ease. However, honestly, some of those were still a little superfluous, especially if we're trying to make our vampire archetypes as broad as possible, so let's be honest. Frank is right, there are basically three vampire archetypes extant.
Nosferatu
"I'm gonna mongle your cock!"
These are the vampires that no one likes to think about, because they're ugly. Or at least terrifying. They originate from the old, old myths about vampires, the ones which didn't talk about the vampire as a creature of romance, but instead insinuated that they were slain werewolves, or just revenant corpses, who returned to the grave each night. The fact that many seem to look like tuberculosis victims, or rather, the corpses thereof, is not accidental. They are still lords of darkness in their own way, but it is in the most raw, terrifying manner possible. This is Count Orlok, from the movie Nosferatu itself.
The most seemly of these creatures still looks the most like a corpse, even amongst beings that are walking corpses. The rest are often bestial... not animalistic in a kind, gentle way, but rather possessed of abominations of traits seen elsewhere. Some lose any hair they had, and instead grow a greasy or even lurid green mat over the rest of their form. All radiate a disconcerting mien, for they are unable to entirely conceal the Beast's hunger within them, and even when they manage to hide it in appearance, it often shines through in their demeanor.
Because of their strong affinity with the monster inside them and its feral qualities, they can also communicate with less undead beasts well, and even assume their forms with a certain readiness. There are legends, after all, of vampires rising from the corpses of werewolves who were not properly disposed of. As far as the Nosferatu of today, know, however, they're only legends, confused ramblings, and you would be best off ignoring Elder Uncle Smashface. The Nosferatu prefer Protean and Animalism, though they're by no means the only practitioners thereof. They also typically master Obfuscation in order to conceal their horrific miens... or just ambush prey.
As a consequence of the grisly metamorphosis that the Embrace of the Nosferatu introduces, all Nosferatu, including their Spawn, acquire the Basic Protean ability of Body Weaponry, often as it rips through their flesh, their teeth lengthen into a bloody maw of fangs, and claws sprout from their digits. Often Nosferatu find the more challenging lesson is how to retract these and look relatively normal again. All Illuminated Nosferatu also possess a stronger personality. When making an attempt to intimidate or terrify someone, they may add 3 dice. This explicitly may apply to uses of Animalism which cow or terrifying beast, but not soothe or merely interact, and likewise to any hunting-related rolls where the Nosferatu is stalking and harrying prey into terror and exhaustion. After using this advantage, however, a Nosferatu subtracts 3 dice from any attempt to make them appear polite, friendly, or otherwise anything but the horrific monster they just revealed themselves to be.
Daeva
"They had forgotten the first lesson, that we are to be powerful, beautiful, and without regret."
These vampires are sexy, but also vaguely infernal, the most likely to be akin to fallen angels, because if Nosferatu are the incarnation of the worst aspects of humanity, and Ventrue are the mind thereof, they are essentially the sexualization of those. These vampires are terrible people because they can do awful things to you and you often will enjoy it, and that is exactly why Lestat has so much appeal.
Accordingly, the Daeva are beautiful and terrifying. Each one of them looks perfectly eerie and enchanting. You cannot escape it. You cannot escape them. Whereas others are dominating or overpowering, they are hypnotic and graceful. Looking upon one of them is often rather akin to gazing upon a marble sculpture. In spite of this unnatural quality, no one seems to question their nature. They belong, even if only in the darkness of your own soul.
With their strong attunement to the energies of Pandemonium, they favor the Discipline of Celerity, which allows them to move in the fluid, timeless, yet madly disjointed manner that is the normal passage of things in Hell. This section needs more nuance, but mostly more Disciplines for me to consider for them.
All Daeva are proficient in Basic Celerity, which grants them Nimble Feet. With this they may move in the way the denizens of Pandemonium are accustomed to, skipping along past unnecessary seconds in order to more rapidly close on their prey. In addition, they are supreme predators and understand their prey untuitively. If an Illuminated Daeva has taken to hypnotizing their prey with their fine appearance, then when called on to make any check to understand or out-think their target, albeit not persuade or seduce, they gain a 3 die bonus. However, they suffer a 3 die penalty on any attempt to make themselves concealed in any which way for the remainder of the scene, and while they may mislead others as to who they are this will also hinder any attempt to disguise themselves. This obviously requires them to interact with their subject.
Ventrue
"Welcome to my house! Enter freely and of your own free will!"
Ventrue are those vampires who are often seen in movies. They are the master vampire, the lord of the undead. They are Dracula. They are implacable, and difficult to strike down. As a consequence, they must be presented as domineering overlords. However, since they are a Clan of vampires, we must be able to present them in a fashion consistent with that. Accordingly, more "introductory" level characters should still feel overwhelming even though they're in fact just a midboss at best.
Be they warlords cursed by God, or mages who sold their soul for eternal life, the Ventrue are vampires as nothing more or less terrifying than dead people walking again. Emphasis on people... cunning, ruthless people. Many Ventrue are so power hungry that it was they who made themselves vampires instead of simply being chosen by an elder, though reports of this being achieved without another vampire being involved in some regard are largely apocryphal.
They are closest to the energy of death itself, and it gives them a certain gravity. Exposed to it, the mortal mind is crushed, allowing the vampire to easily reorder their thoughts according to their will. Supernaturals are rarely so fragile, but can still be manipulated similarly. Their bodies are seemingly immune to injury, as well, as they are most keenly aware of how already dead they are, and easily may shrug off pain.
Insert line about automatic Discipline here. Probably Awe or Fortitude or something.
Ventrue are often singleminded, obsessive maniacs. Even the more calm, collected individuals who usually keep things in perspective eventually snap and acquire some obsession which can someitmes gnaw on them for the rest of their existence. When an Illuminated Ventrue decides to fixate on a single point of obsession in a scene, whoever or whatever that is, she gains 3 dice on any roll to resist any attempt to stop her, including physical restraints, grapples, and even breaking down stationary obstacles like walls, although not fighting through enemy combatants, as except for escaping holds, they are only barriers in the most figurative sense. They subtract 3 dice from any attempts to retreat from their objective, however, including doing other things which require a retreat or even postponing pursuing it.
Some Notes
I structured these the way I did so as to try to emphasize what I felt were advantages the Clan should have while not giving them direct benefits to the "stereotypical" focus. This is why I avoided giving Daeva a bonus on seduction, Nosferatu a bonus to stealth, and Ventrue a bonus to any kind of Dominate action. I wanted to give them benefits that could help them in the kinds of actions they're likely to get into even without reinforcing those stereotypes, but instead reinforcing mostly negative stereotypes. The +3/-3 choice was because from what I remember of Shadowrun that is enough to just about always make people sit up and take notice without overshadowing every other modifier ever, although it is quite large.
I handed out a freebie Discipline to everyone partially because I consider vampirism to be equivalent to magical initiation (because in a sense it is) and as a consequence they'd gain at least one point of Magic. Accordingly there was room to preselect one of those points of kewl powerz, which I did to reinforce Clan traits a bit more and also give an identifying characteristic to Spawn vampires of that Clan, which would be consistent.
Also, I think Illuminated is a good word to use.
Feel free to throw things at me for any or all of this. It's just a (really rough, unfinished) draft.
...more of the same...
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I don't think that having Fortitude as a key ability is at all out of character for Vampires. I mean honestly isn't the whole deal where they can die and then come back to life by using or being given power points later on is a pretty impressive deal. I could easily see that as an Intermediate or even Advanced Fortitude discipline, and they get it just for getting up in the evening. The thing where they can heal wounds in combat should probably be a Fort power too (Basic compared to the Werewolf's higher level version where they just heal for no reason, assuming we want to keep that, which we might not). In short, vampires are crazy resilient all the time, and having that be what it looks like when you check most of the pre-expansion Fortitude boxes off is actually a pretty sound way of doing things.
As for Daevas and bats, I thought we were going with literal succubi. As in seriously I was templating them off of Dark Stalkers or Bloody Roar. Where they were literally succubus vampires and probably had little non-functional bat wings like Disgaea characters.
So anyway, here's a possible Fortitude. Vampires get both the Basic and Intermediate Disciplines automatically and for free. Werewolves only get one of the Basic ones, but they are free to buy up other ones if they want to become the werewolves from Werewolf in London/Paris who come back from the dead when the moon rises.
Fortitude
Endure. And in enduring, grow strong.
Fortitude is the power to resist destruction. Some powers of Fortitude are continuously in operation, while others must be activated with power points. What makes Fortitude special is that it does not require the active choice to activate it. A character may activate their Fortitude powers passively while unconscious, or in some cases even while dead. A character with Fortitude is generally resilient even when their powers are not being activated, gaining a bonus on physical Resistance rolls of +3 dice. If they have Intermediate Fortitude this bonus increases to +4, and if they have Advanced Fortitude it increases to +6.
Basic Disciplines
* Patience of the Mountains The character does not need to eat, drink, or breathe. They persist night after night as the mountains and valleys do. Never aging, never changing. Such a character can hold any position no matter how awkward without cramping or moving. This ability is continuous.
* Revive the Flesh The character can heal their wounds by drawing upon their magical power. By spending a Power point, the character's wounds suture themselves, restoring their body to its original condition without mark or scar. Each power point heals one box of Lethal or two boxes of Nonlethal damage. Wounds healed in this manner are gone in one round. Any wounds short of death can be healed in this manner. Aggravated damage is harder to heal, and takes two Power points and an hour per box.
Intermediate Disciplines
* Restoration Death is no longer an insurmountable obstacle. While the character is dead, they may spend 2 Power points plus an additional Power point per point of Potency they possess and four hours to reduce the amount of damage on themselves to one less than Lethal. If the character lacks the Power points to use this discipline, they may yet get a chance if the vast majority of their body is placed together and invested with sufficient Power by others.
* Indomitability Wounds do not hamper the character. This discipline is continuously active. The character suffers no wound penalties and does not go unconscious from injury before they die.
Advanced Disciplines
* Endless Persistence By spending an Edge, the character becomes literally invulnerable for a brief period of time. For one round per Potency, the character ignores all damage, whether aggravated or not. This discipline can be activated reactively when damage would be sustained.
* Skin of Night This passive discipline converts all aggravated damage to normal damage.
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I don't think that having Fortitude as a key ability is at all out of character for Vampires. I mean honestly isn't the whole deal where they can die and then come back to life by using or being given power points later on is a pretty impressive deal. I could easily see that as an Intermediate or even Advanced Fortitude discipline, and they get it just for getting up in the evening. The thing where they can heal wounds in combat should probably be a Fort power too (Basic compared to the Werewolf's higher level version where they just heal for no reason, assuming we want to keep that, which we might not). In short, vampires are crazy resilient all the time, and having that be what it looks like when you check most of the pre-expansion Fortitude boxes off is actually a pretty sound way of doing things.
As for Daevas and bats, I thought we were going with literal succubi. As in seriously I was templating them off of Dark Stalkers or Bloody Roar. Where they were literally succubus vampires and probably had little non-functional bat wings like Disgaea characters.
So anyway, here's a possible Fortitude. Vampires get both the Basic and Intermediate Disciplines automatically and for free. Werewolves only get one of the Basic ones, but they are free to buy up other ones if they want to become the werewolves from Werewolf in London/Paris who come back from the dead when the moon rises.
Fortitude
Endure. And in enduring, grow strong.
Fortitude is the power to resist destruction. Some powers of Fortitude are continuously in operation, while others must be activated with power points. What makes Fortitude special is that it does not require the active choice to activate it. A character may activate their Fortitude powers passively while unconscious, or in some cases even while dead. A character with Fortitude is generally resilient even when their powers are not being activated, gaining a bonus on physical Resistance rolls of +3 dice. If they have Intermediate Fortitude this bonus increases to +4, and if they have Advanced Fortitude it increases to +6.
Basic Disciplines
* Patience of the Mountains The character does not need to eat, drink, or breathe. They persist night after night as the mountains and valleys do. Never aging, never changing. Such a character can hold any position no matter how awkward without cramping or moving. This ability is continuous.
* Revive the Flesh The character can heal their wounds by drawing upon their magical power. By spending a Power point, the character's wounds suture themselves, restoring their body to its original condition without mark or scar. Each power point heals one box of Lethal or two boxes of Nonlethal damage. Wounds healed in this manner are gone in one round. Any wounds short of death can be healed in this manner. Aggravated damage is harder to heal, and takes two Power points and an hour per box.
Intermediate Disciplines
* Restoration Death is no longer an insurmountable obstacle. While the character is dead, they may spend 2 Power points plus an additional Power point per point of Potency they possess and four hours to reduce the amount of damage on themselves to one less than Lethal. If the character lacks the Power points to use this discipline, they may yet get a chance if the vast majority of their body is placed together and invested with sufficient Power by others.
* Indomitability Wounds do not hamper the character. This discipline is continuously active. The character suffers no wound penalties and does not go unconscious from injury before they die.
Advanced Disciplines
* Endless Persistence By spending an Edge, the character becomes literally invulnerable for a brief period of time. For one round per Potency, the character ignores all damage, whether aggravated or not. This discipline can be activated reactively when damage would be sustained.
* Skin of Night This passive discipline converts all aggravated damage to normal damage.
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TavishArtair wrote:
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So your Gloom-based Witches. They're based on Houngan serpent-charms, Egyptian mummy magic, they have an association with death, rather than infernalism... and considering other serpents around the world... Croikey, it looks like you've got a nest of Ouroborans on your hands. Don't worry, the buggers are mostly harmless, they spend most of their time eating their own heads.
In order to feel like Death mages, they're going to need a power by which they can make things rot. In fact, it'd probably be their signature effects by which they can exhale corruption at something and have it wither. Remember, many dragons breathed contagion, not fire. They'll also probably want the ability to turn their staves into serpents, at the very least. Based on the mythology, these would be the Witches most likely to have a decisive plan to become immortal, and accordingly would study all kinds of mystic alchemy in order to create the necessary potions (or embalming fluids) to preserve themselves. Aesculapius (and likely Hippocrates, by extension) would also be an inspiration to their number.
I would in fact go so far as to say, while they might be inclined to make corpses (or even statues) walk at their command, they would be one of the groups less inclined to necessarily talk to ghosts, even if it was within their capability. Most of it would be a more physical sorcery, though of course they need the ability to use mystic amulets inscribed with sacred cartouches in order to invest a person with the name and thus soul of their dearly-departed consort or whatever.
TavishArtair wrote:
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So your Gloom-based Witches. They're based on Houngan serpent-charms, Egyptian mummy magic, they have an association with death, rather than infernalism... and considering other serpents around the world... Croikey, it looks like you've got a nest of Ouroborans on your hands. Don't worry, the buggers are mostly harmless, they spend most of their time eating their own heads.
In order to feel like Death mages, they're going to need a power by which they can make things rot. In fact, it'd probably be their signature effects by which they can exhale corruption at something and have it wither. Remember, many dragons breathed contagion, not fire. They'll also probably want the ability to turn their staves into serpents, at the very least. Based on the mythology, these would be the Witches most likely to have a decisive plan to become immortal, and accordingly would study all kinds of mystic alchemy in order to create the necessary potions (or embalming fluids) to preserve themselves. Aesculapius (and likely Hippocrates, by extension) would also be an inspiration to their number.
I would in fact go so far as to say, while they might be inclined to make corpses (or even statues) walk at their command, they would be one of the groups less inclined to necessarily talk to ghosts, even if it was within their capability. Most of it would be a more physical sorcery, though of course they need the ability to use mystic amulets inscribed with sacred cartouches in order to invest a person with the name and thus soul of their dearly-departed consort or whatever.
Another good conversation snippet
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Frank wrote:
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Vnonymous wrote:
Would adding a temporary bonus to certain auspicious events work?
Sure, Dracula can just suck down a few hobos, but if he really wants to get down to business, he's going to find the pure and beautiful virgin luminary and suck her dry or turn her into a vampire or something, and the werewolf is going to be strong when the moon rises, but when the full moon rises, they turn into Wolfzilla etc etc.
Yes, that would work. I mean it does open the door for people to keep virgin girls in cages to pop the top off when it comes time to throw down and then the team just waits for a full moon during a thunder storm so that they can do the ultimostrike. But to an extent, that's kind of OK. Even potentially a good thing if there are some sort of real-world concerns that keep people from just pressing the "next" button day after day under they get the right stellar conditions. Provisionally, I'm in favor.
Grek wrote:
From what been described so far, a werewolf has three forms, human looking, animal and an animal-human hybrid. Each of these different forms should have different effects and be useful for different things. If a vampire gets "Transform into wolf" He should get exactly that. The wolf form. The wolfman is oneup on the vampire because he can also turn into a wolfman in addition to the other two forms.
Yes, but those are two powers that the Werewolf starts with. If it is your goal in life to play a Tzimisce you're going to be playing a Ventrue who buys a lot of Protean powers. And you'll probably end up with Beast Form and Monstrous Form. And Flesh Crafting, and Form of Mist, and Body Weaponry, and so on. If you sink enough points into Protean, you'll be better at transforming yourself than the Werewolf will be. Because the Werewolf will be sinking his points into other powers. And then he'll end up being able to teleport through mirrors and shadows or cloud peoples' memories (assuming for the moment that he wanted to replicate an oWoD Garou).
The preselected powers are just powers on the basic lists. And if you walk in as special type A and take your optional powers as the ones that special type B happens to start with you may well be able to do a passable job impersonating the other critter. But yeah, your power schedule and your magic weaknesses aren't going to change. If you're a "real" werewolf you're always going to discolor salt and if you're a "real" Ventrue you're always going to offend cats and babies. Specific limitations/advantages are also going to apply. So the real werewolf is going to have anger management issues.
-Username17
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Frank wrote:
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Vnonymous wrote:
Would adding a temporary bonus to certain auspicious events work?
Sure, Dracula can just suck down a few hobos, but if he really wants to get down to business, he's going to find the pure and beautiful virgin luminary and suck her dry or turn her into a vampire or something, and the werewolf is going to be strong when the moon rises, but when the full moon rises, they turn into Wolfzilla etc etc.
Yes, that would work. I mean it does open the door for people to keep virgin girls in cages to pop the top off when it comes time to throw down and then the team just waits for a full moon during a thunder storm so that they can do the ultimostrike. But to an extent, that's kind of OK. Even potentially a good thing if there are some sort of real-world concerns that keep people from just pressing the "next" button day after day under they get the right stellar conditions. Provisionally, I'm in favor.
Grek wrote:
From what been described so far, a werewolf has three forms, human looking, animal and an animal-human hybrid. Each of these different forms should have different effects and be useful for different things. If a vampire gets "Transform into wolf" He should get exactly that. The wolf form. The wolfman is oneup on the vampire because he can also turn into a wolfman in addition to the other two forms.
Yes, but those are two powers that the Werewolf starts with. If it is your goal in life to play a Tzimisce you're going to be playing a Ventrue who buys a lot of Protean powers. And you'll probably end up with Beast Form and Monstrous Form. And Flesh Crafting, and Form of Mist, and Body Weaponry, and so on. If you sink enough points into Protean, you'll be better at transforming yourself than the Werewolf will be. Because the Werewolf will be sinking his points into other powers. And then he'll end up being able to teleport through mirrors and shadows or cloud peoples' memories (assuming for the moment that he wanted to replicate an oWoD Garou).
The preselected powers are just powers on the basic lists. And if you walk in as special type A and take your optional powers as the ones that special type B happens to start with you may well be able to do a passable job impersonating the other critter. But yeah, your power schedule and your magic weaknesses aren't going to change. If you're a "real" werewolf you're always going to discolor salt and if you're a "real" Ventrue you're always going to offend cats and babies. Specific limitations/advantages are also going to apply. So the real werewolf is going to have anger management issues.
-Username17
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TarkisFlux
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You pulling that from the google cache of the thread Nihlin?
The wiki you should be linking to when you need a wiki link - http://www.dnd-wiki.org
Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
Ant: "Ethically, a task well-completed for the good of the colony. Experientially, endorphins."
This was pretty funny, actually...
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Frank wrote:
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Boolean wrote:
I just think, in a World of Darkness with a variety of supernatural beings and forces, at least one group ought to be able to imitate Abrahamic miracles and powers well enough to get some mileage out of pesudochristian imagery in their cult.
I definitely don't. This is the World of Darkness, not the World of Good ersus Evil. There are vampires and ghosts and demons. There are no angels, apsaras, or unicorns. The supernatural stuff is bad, and it's the protagonists, because there isn't anything else.
Hunter was a shitty game. The Osirians were a shitty clan. And the Lancea Sanctorum was a shitty Covenant. Having people who even look like they are white hats is like the worst buzz kill ever in the World of Darkness. The player characters are performing weird political maneuvers involving trying to secure votes of confidence from tentacled monsters that live in pools of feces and have brainwashed human slaves throw babies into their spiny maws. You're supposed to be groping to find a silver lining in an expanse of clouds so dense you can't even see your hands. Which is good, because your hands are covered in blood. Having a guy in this setting be a literal glowing paragon of virtue who has some sort of bullshit personal flaws on the side isn't biting social commentary it just bites.
Which is not to say that Catholicism isn't awesome. It is. Their priests dress in black, their symbol is a torture device, their main ritual is symbolic cannibalism, and they ran quasi-official rape camps for children for sixty years in the Republic of Ireland before they were shut down by the EU. There's a lot of stuff you can do with Christianity - especially the idea of Christian government, because that shit is fucking insane.
So here's the deal with the Sabbat, and they're important because they're the biggest covenant in Europe. They are based on the power structures of the early Holy Roman Empire. And being as they are way more conservative than humanity (being as how a lot of guys from 1000 CE are still alive and unwilling to hand over power), they're basically still doing that crazy stuff.
So the Sabbat don't have lawyers. They have Glossators. It is their job to come up with the elaborate dialectical and quasi-theological reasoning required to simultaneously believe two things that are logically incompatible. They use this as a core legal principal to maintain a body of canon law handed down by the cardinal's council over a thousand years of changing moods and tides without actually admitting that any ruling ever becomes obsolete or conflicts with another.
Basically, you want to go look at the rituals and political structure of the Sedevacantists and then crank that back five hundred years. So you have people who have the rank of "Saint" that entitles them to something kind of like tenure where they are allowed to show up and pontificate in any church meeting of any size and weigh in on any side of any issue. And then actual administration is down by Judices Palatine who use the Glosses produced by Glossators to interpret the rulings of church conclaves to produce actual policy. And it's all done in pen and paper where the ink is human blood.
There are mandatory church services where priests who are hundreds of years old get up and rant. And yeah, they've lost a lot of ground since World War II, because you know they backed Slovakia and Croatia.
And that's how you put Christianity into the World of Darkness. Not by putting guys in white glowing armor into the game - because Christians never did that. But by digging up the batshit stuff they actually did do in the 11th century and then just using that pretty much straight.
-Username17
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Frank wrote:
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Boolean wrote:
I just think, in a World of Darkness with a variety of supernatural beings and forces, at least one group ought to be able to imitate Abrahamic miracles and powers well enough to get some mileage out of pesudochristian imagery in their cult.
I definitely don't. This is the World of Darkness, not the World of Good ersus Evil. There are vampires and ghosts and demons. There are no angels, apsaras, or unicorns. The supernatural stuff is bad, and it's the protagonists, because there isn't anything else.
Hunter was a shitty game. The Osirians were a shitty clan. And the Lancea Sanctorum was a shitty Covenant. Having people who even look like they are white hats is like the worst buzz kill ever in the World of Darkness. The player characters are performing weird political maneuvers involving trying to secure votes of confidence from tentacled monsters that live in pools of feces and have brainwashed human slaves throw babies into their spiny maws. You're supposed to be groping to find a silver lining in an expanse of clouds so dense you can't even see your hands. Which is good, because your hands are covered in blood. Having a guy in this setting be a literal glowing paragon of virtue who has some sort of bullshit personal flaws on the side isn't biting social commentary it just bites.
Which is not to say that Catholicism isn't awesome. It is. Their priests dress in black, their symbol is a torture device, their main ritual is symbolic cannibalism, and they ran quasi-official rape camps for children for sixty years in the Republic of Ireland before they were shut down by the EU. There's a lot of stuff you can do with Christianity - especially the idea of Christian government, because that shit is fucking insane.
So here's the deal with the Sabbat, and they're important because they're the biggest covenant in Europe. They are based on the power structures of the early Holy Roman Empire. And being as they are way more conservative than humanity (being as how a lot of guys from 1000 CE are still alive and unwilling to hand over power), they're basically still doing that crazy stuff.
So the Sabbat don't have lawyers. They have Glossators. It is their job to come up with the elaborate dialectical and quasi-theological reasoning required to simultaneously believe two things that are logically incompatible. They use this as a core legal principal to maintain a body of canon law handed down by the cardinal's council over a thousand years of changing moods and tides without actually admitting that any ruling ever becomes obsolete or conflicts with another.
Basically, you want to go look at the rituals and political structure of the Sedevacantists and then crank that back five hundred years. So you have people who have the rank of "Saint" that entitles them to something kind of like tenure where they are allowed to show up and pontificate in any church meeting of any size and weigh in on any side of any issue. And then actual administration is down by Judices Palatine who use the Glosses produced by Glossators to interpret the rulings of church conclaves to produce actual policy. And it's all done in pen and paper where the ink is human blood.
There are mandatory church services where priests who are hundreds of years old get up and rant. And yeah, they've lost a lot of ground since World War II, because you know they backed Slovakia and Croatia.
And that's how you put Christianity into the World of Darkness. Not by putting guys in white glowing armor into the game - because Christians never did that. But by digging up the batshit stuff they actually did do in the 11th century and then just using that pretty much straight.
-Username17
And on a related point...
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Heath Robinson wrote:
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What I believe Frank intends to say is that putting Angels into the game looks sympathetic to Abrahamic ideals. Really, it is sympathetic - unless you also throw in all kinds of extra shit to "include" other religious traditions for the sake of being fair, and averting a terrible prospect.
Any game that so much as seems sympathetic to Abrahamic religions (over all the others) draw that player. The one who wasn't allowed to associate with people who listen to rock music when they were younger, and who agrees with the reasoning behind that kind of thing. That player tends to be a buzzkiller because they often can't separate ingame and out-of-game morality sufficiently.
So, basically, if we include things that are actual bona fide purely supernatural beings that we associate with anything from Abrahamic mythology (even in an out-of-game context) we will see the game attract an extra breed of player that tends not to play well with the diverse group of people you see at the table. Or you include all kinds of extra supernatural elements that we don't need in an attempt to include religiouslike elements whilst also immunising the game against poisonous players.
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Heath Robinson wrote:
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What I believe Frank intends to say is that putting Angels into the game looks sympathetic to Abrahamic ideals. Really, it is sympathetic - unless you also throw in all kinds of extra shit to "include" other religious traditions for the sake of being fair, and averting a terrible prospect.
Any game that so much as seems sympathetic to Abrahamic religions (over all the others) draw that player. The one who wasn't allowed to associate with people who listen to rock music when they were younger, and who agrees with the reasoning behind that kind of thing. That player tends to be a buzzkiller because they often can't separate ingame and out-of-game morality sufficiently.
So, basically, if we include things that are actual bona fide purely supernatural beings that we associate with anything from Abrahamic mythology (even in an out-of-game context) we will see the game attract an extra breed of player that tends not to play well with the diverse group of people you see at the table. Or you include all kinds of extra supernatural elements that we don't need in an attempt to include religiouslike elements whilst also immunising the game against poisonous players.
More on the Dark Reflection.
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TarkisFlux wrote:
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Grek wrote:
- Nobody knows for sure if entire cities fell into the Dark Reflection before that. It's possible that this has happened before and it's also possible that nuclear war actually was the first thing massive enough to blast entire cities into the Dark Reflection.
Nero's Rome might be a good fit for one that fell and required a long, long time to reclaim. Or San Francisco after the 1906 quake where fires stared by the quake (and made worse by the non-functional but pretty fire hydrant system) might also be an interesting one that's still being reclaimed. I'm sure there are others.
It would be pretty easy to have lost things to the DR in times past, such that there were holes and overlapping lands, where dark emotion overtook the population at a time of great destruction and they pushed themselves over. That sort of thing you could work yourself back from, leaving it open just long enough for things and stories to cross over. Nuclear devastation just pushes right past that, and might actually be gone gone, making it a new and special kind of screwed.
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TarkisFlux wrote:
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Grek wrote:
- Nobody knows for sure if entire cities fell into the Dark Reflection before that. It's possible that this has happened before and it's also possible that nuclear war actually was the first thing massive enough to blast entire cities into the Dark Reflection.
Nero's Rome might be a good fit for one that fell and required a long, long time to reclaim. Or San Francisco after the 1906 quake where fires stared by the quake (and made worse by the non-functional but pretty fire hydrant system) might also be an interesting one that's still being reclaimed. I'm sure there are others.
It would be pretty easy to have lost things to the DR in times past, such that there were holes and overlapping lands, where dark emotion overtook the population at a time of great destruction and they pushed themselves over. That sort of thing you could work yourself back from, leaving it open just long enough for things and stories to cross over. Nuclear devastation just pushes right past that, and might actually be gone gone, making it a new and special kind of screwed.
And a nice summary:
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Frank wrote:
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JE wrote:
Hmm... what regions of the world are currently used to inspire the other supernaturals?
Lycanthropes:
* Get of Fenris (Northern Europe)
* Nezumi (East Asia / D&D / Warhammer)
* Bagheera (India / Central America)
Promethean:
* Frankensteins (Western Europe)
* Golems (Semitic)
* Androids (generic modern)
Vampires:
* Nosferatu (Europe)
* Ventrue (Europe)
* Daeva (generic modern)
Transhumans:
* The Fallen (East Asia)
* The Returned (India)
* Children of Aether (generic modern)
Mages:
* Khaibit (Egyptian / Voodoo / Other African)
* Baali (pretty much anywhere)
* Unassigned Slot
Leviathan:
* Deep Ones (mostly Greek)
* Troglodytes (Africa)
* Unassigned Slot
And don't forget the non-playables:
* Demons (pretty much anywhere)
* Zombies (Caribbean)
* Giant Animals (pretty much anywhere)
* Ghosts (pretty much anywhere)
* Evil Plants (generic modern)
* Fey (mostly Celtic)
So Europe gets way over represented. Mostly because most of the vampires are variations on European themes. Even the Daeva are a postmodern rethink of primarily European influences. East Asia and the New World are frankly underrepresented. Oceania isn't represented at all, but considering how few people are actually from there, that might not be a big deal. We don't need any bunyip.
-Username17
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Frank wrote:
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JE wrote:
Hmm... what regions of the world are currently used to inspire the other supernaturals?
Lycanthropes:
* Get of Fenris (Northern Europe)
* Nezumi (East Asia / D&D / Warhammer)
* Bagheera (India / Central America)
Promethean:
* Frankensteins (Western Europe)
* Golems (Semitic)
* Androids (generic modern)
Vampires:
* Nosferatu (Europe)
* Ventrue (Europe)
* Daeva (generic modern)
Transhumans:
* The Fallen (East Asia)
* The Returned (India)
* Children of Aether (generic modern)
Mages:
* Khaibit (Egyptian / Voodoo / Other African)
* Baali (pretty much anywhere)
* Unassigned Slot
Leviathan:
* Deep Ones (mostly Greek)
* Troglodytes (Africa)
* Unassigned Slot
And don't forget the non-playables:
* Demons (pretty much anywhere)
* Zombies (Caribbean)
* Giant Animals (pretty much anywhere)
* Ghosts (pretty much anywhere)
* Evil Plants (generic modern)
* Fey (mostly Celtic)
So Europe gets way over represented. Mostly because most of the vampires are variations on European themes. Even the Daeva are a postmodern rethink of primarily European influences. East Asia and the New World are frankly underrepresented. Oceania isn't represented at all, but considering how few people are actually from there, that might not be a big deal. We don't need any bunyip.
-Username17
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RandomCasualty2
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Are Frankensteins and golems really going to be acceptable PC characters? It seems to me they'd be like playing a 3E fighter in a social campaign.
Literally the only thing remarkable about Frankensteins and Golems is that they're really strong and hard to kill, which is basically true of almost every other supernatural type anyway. Not to mention that you're not even capable of blending into society.
How are these guys really even playable in a game that isn't focused around combat. They seem just like second rate werewolves without the silver vulnerability.
Literally the only thing remarkable about Frankensteins and Golems is that they're really strong and hard to kill, which is basically true of almost every other supernatural type anyway. Not to mention that you're not even capable of blending into society.
How are these guys really even playable in a game that isn't focused around combat. They seem just like second rate werewolves without the silver vulnerability.
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Username17
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That's a good question. I think the answer is yes. People have managed to play Nosferatu for years, and they labor under basically the same limitation: they don't look especially human. Golems have the advantage that they look like they are wearing a wooden or clay mask, which lets them basically walk around in public during festivals right away. Frankensteins look really sick, but they can still probably pass for a dude with hep even without concealing their features.RandomCasualty2 wrote:Are Frankensteins and golems really going to be acceptable PC characters? It seems to me they'd be like playing a 3E fighter in a social campaign.
Having a non-human appearance is something that certainly makes a character marginal and challenging, but I don't think it invalidates them inherently.
-Username17
Oh, even if social interactions with humans were 100% off-limits, that would still leave plenty of roles available, from personal combat, to gadgeeteer/technician to researcher/ritualist, to conjurer/spirit talker, to spy/investigator, to seer/diviner.
I think RCs question went to the issue of what our "universal power list" looks like and how the powers of some characters are justified. He was saying that Golems would be too limited because he imagines that they will have Potency and Celerity but never Auspex or Walk of Flame.
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Also did you see my post on page 1 of this thread?
I think RCs question went to the issue of what our "universal power list" looks like and how the powers of some characters are justified. He was saying that Golems would be too limited because he imagines that they will have Potency and Celerity but never Auspex or Walk of Flame.
---
Also did you see my post on page 1 of this thread?
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RandomCasualty2
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Well, nosferatu have the advantage that their clan discipline lets them turn invisible. So while they're ugly as shit, they can still actually walk around in public without raising a huge scare, because people just don't see them. The invisibility also means they're great spies, so politically they have a lot of secrets.FrankTrollman wrote: That's a good question. I think the answer is yes. People have managed to play Nosferatu for years, and they labor under basically the same limitation: they don't look especially human.
Aside from dumb muscle, are Promethians really going to have anything else to bring to the table? It just seems like they'd be boring to play unless the game focused on pure combat. But really, you might as well just make a werewolf at that point anyway.
Last edited by RandomCasualty2 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Username17
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Yeah. And I certainly see your point as far as Leviathan go. As the outer worlds have gotten more fleshed out, Limbo has become more of a charred land of ashen regret while Maya has become more of a world of wonder and Celephais. So the original assignment of Deep Ones into the Dark Reflection because they were the most demonic and Mothman into the Wilds because he was the most fairy-like is really inappropriate. So I'll grant you that at this point, putting Deep Ones into the Dreamlands and the as yet unsettled bug people into the Dark Reflection is a better assignment.Boolean wrote: Also did you see my post on page 1 of this thread?
But I'm not feeling you on the Androids and Golems. The primary source material on Androids is Metropolis, and the image of a blighted city covered in soot, smashed glass, and little scraps of paper blowing in a dry hot wind is just about perfect. On the Golem end, they can also be Pinocchio so having them have access to a nightmare dreamscape is a very good fit on that end as well.
-Username17
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CatharzGodfoot
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Frankenstein's Monsters can have Auspex because they have cat (or squid, gecko, whatever) eyes, possibly in greater numbers than a normal human. They might also have modified ears, brains, and pretty much anything else. There's not even really anything stopping a flesh golem from looking unnaturally beautiful and being a face.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
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TavishArtair
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I would also like to say that I think the "Dark Reflection" zone should be called Pandemonium, as opposed to Limbo, because Limbo evokes a zone of emptiness, whereas while the Dark Reflection is barren ash it is full of barenness and the wasteland and the suffering and so on. Whereas Pandemonium implies a sort of disjointed chaos. Hell is right out either way. There's also Tartarus, Makai, and so on.
Anyways.
So, an important thing to keep in mind about the Khaibit, is that they have to be capable of doing alchemy. The kind of alchemy that mostly concerns itself with immortality, but alchemy nonetheless. We've already established that, so it's good. But having done that, we can actually choose to arrogate the entire alchemical tradition to them, because the words Al Khem are "of the Black" or "of Khem". And what's cool about this is we can get almost Call of Cthulhu esque plotlines where people trace some seemingly random esoteric mysticism back to Ancient Egyptian priests and wake up a mummy which tries to eat them because sometimes mummies do that. So while they should definitely evoke that atmosphere, we should keep an open mind as to what is being done with it today. Remember, some of the first Egypt-lovers were the Greeks and Romans.
As to the other Witches, we have only a few sets of magical characters in the source material, but we have to cover the ones we really need with our 2 other Witch selections. Dreamspeakers and Faustians or otherwise. And one of the really big magical archetypes in the source material is the gypsy or native shaman, who has a peculiar relationship with spiritual beings and can call all kinds of horrible curses from beyond on their foes. So we have to figure out if Dreamspeakers or Faustians are going to cover that. We also have, of course, the classical infernalist who sells ihs soul to hell, but sometimes I'm not entirely certain that isn't fulfilled by Daeva. And there are of course holy men who do often command what are essentially magical powers as they can actually make feats of binding and such stick on vampires instead of just waving a cross at them and having the monster sneer at their ineffectual faith and crush it, as well as people who randomly have what appear to be psychic powers and go Carrie on people or something like that, or more often gain Plot Hole Vision.
Anyways.
So, an important thing to keep in mind about the Khaibit, is that they have to be capable of doing alchemy. The kind of alchemy that mostly concerns itself with immortality, but alchemy nonetheless. We've already established that, so it's good. But having done that, we can actually choose to arrogate the entire alchemical tradition to them, because the words Al Khem are "of the Black" or "of Khem". And what's cool about this is we can get almost Call of Cthulhu esque plotlines where people trace some seemingly random esoteric mysticism back to Ancient Egyptian priests and wake up a mummy which tries to eat them because sometimes mummies do that. So while they should definitely evoke that atmosphere, we should keep an open mind as to what is being done with it today. Remember, some of the first Egypt-lovers were the Greeks and Romans.
As to the other Witches, we have only a few sets of magical characters in the source material, but we have to cover the ones we really need with our 2 other Witch selections. Dreamspeakers and Faustians or otherwise. And one of the really big magical archetypes in the source material is the gypsy or native shaman, who has a peculiar relationship with spiritual beings and can call all kinds of horrible curses from beyond on their foes. So we have to figure out if Dreamspeakers or Faustians are going to cover that. We also have, of course, the classical infernalist who sells ihs soul to hell, but sometimes I'm not entirely certain that isn't fulfilled by Daeva. And there are of course holy men who do often command what are essentially magical powers as they can actually make feats of binding and such stick on vampires instead of just waving a cross at them and having the monster sneer at their ineffectual faith and crush it, as well as people who randomly have what appear to be psychic powers and go Carrie on people or something like that, or more often gain Plot Hole Vision.
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CatharzGodfoot
- King
- Posts: 5668
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: North Carolina
This is one of those minor things that people like to argue about rather than accomplish real work, but I have to disagree. The Dark Reflection is a very quiet, empty, and repetitive sort of burning wasteland. Pandemonium seems more apt to describe the chaos of the dreamlands. Tartarus, Makai, and so forth are more evocative of specific locations than Limbo, which is a state of being. Remember that Limbo is the portion of hell nearest to the living.TavishArtair wrote:I would also like to say that I think the "Dark Reflection" zone should be called Pandemonium, as opposed to Limbo, because Limbo evokes a zone of emptiness, whereas while the Dark Reflection is barren ash it is full of barenness and the wasteland and the suffering and so on. Whereas Pandemonium implies a sort of disjointed chaos. Hell is right out either way. There's also Tartarus, Makai, and so on.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-
RandomCasualty2
- Prince
- Posts: 3295
- Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 4:22 pm
You may want to consider making Witch/Sorcerer into a template, since a lot of characters are both mages and something else. The mummy for instance is a TransHuman who can cast spells. It's also pretty iconic for Deep Ones to have some kind of magic, and you can also model the Tremere or have werewolf shamans.
Random, why do I get the feeling you aren't reading the thread at all?
Every supernatural group can learn Auspex, Dominate, Pyromancy, Blood Magic, the works.
You don't have to tack on a mage template to a vampire to give him magic powers, because we already assumed magic powers as part of the definition of vampire. That was actually the whole Tremere schtick in the first place. They weren't defined mechanically as mages or indeed anything but vampires. Flavor-wise, they were blood-drinking sorcerers, which, holy shit, is exactly what being a "vampire" means already.
Every supernatural group can learn Auspex, Dominate, Pyromancy, Blood Magic, the works.
You don't have to tack on a mage template to a vampire to give him magic powers, because we already assumed magic powers as part of the definition of vampire. That was actually the whole Tremere schtick in the first place. They weren't defined mechanically as mages or indeed anything but vampires. Flavor-wise, they were blood-drinking sorcerers, which, holy shit, is exactly what being a "vampire" means already.
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RandomCasualty2
- Prince
- Posts: 3295
- Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 4:22 pm
Oh I missed that part. I knew a lot of powers were unified, I just figured that magic itself was going to be unique to witches, since I really didn't see much mention of spellcasters in any of the other monster types.Boolean wrote:Random, why do I get the feeling you aren't reading the thread at all?
Every supernatural group can learn Auspex, Dominate, Pyromancy, Blood Magic, the works.
Like I said before, I always figured the mummy would be a transhuman with spells instead of a straight witch.
Last edited by RandomCasualty2 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CatharzGodfoot
- King
- Posts: 5668
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: North Carolina
So here's another speed bump: how about making one of the witches beetle sacks (like the mummy) instead of snakes, and then making the third leviathan a straight-up snake person?
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack