The Gaming Den

Parts of Exalted I'd want to keep for a fantasy lungbreaker:

• The over the top power level - player characters are expected to go around punching gods in the face.
• The "this does not draw on anything recognizable from Tolkien" design goal.
• The part of the setting where the only thing holding back various anti-human Powers is a tyrannical empire, which has just now began a leadership crisis that very well may end it.
• Various power sources have vaguely celestial names - that's an evocative mnemonic that isn't yet overused like colors and cutesy acronyms are.
• Just enough of the reincarnation angle that the tomb a PC loots can be his own.

Josh_Kablack wrote:Parts of Exalted I'd want to keep for a fantasy lungbreaker:

[*]The over the top power level - player characters are expected to go around punching gods in the face.

And these gods should be real gods, that won't be ashamed showing up at least as boss fights in God of War, not minor spirirs that are lucky to have a street-level superhero abilities.

Josh_Kablack wrote:[*]The "this does not draw on anything recognizable from Tolkien" design goal.

Frankly, I think that defining itself as "totally not X" almost always leads to poor design. The best example in actual Exalted setting is Mountain Folk, included for no apparent reasons except showing that they can make dwarves different.

Josh_Kablack wrote:[*]The part of the setting only thing holding back various anti-human Powers is a tyrannical empire, which has just now began a leadership crisis that very well may end it.

I also liked the part where the current leaders of gods were usurper scumbags, interested only in maintaining their position of power and playing the celestial Playstation, while the titans they usurped had a legitimate grievance, but wanted to end the world as we known it.

What I'd also like to keep:

- Anime stylistics (improbable weapons - and defaulting to biggest meatcleaver you can find shouldn't be the best option always; improbable clothes and hairstyles; flashy powers; battle auras). Benefits for acting stylishly also should exist.

- Relationship between weak and fragile normal humans and massively empowered Chosen. I must say that actual Exalted setting - except perhaps the first DB book, which is one of the reasons people like it - really failed to explore this theme in anything approaching a realistic way.

- No clearly defined good and evil factions, everyone has a legitimate cause. Yes, I know, this was written out of the actual Exalted setting after the first few books, but I still prefer this.

I still maintain however that if someone came up with a game that:

FatR wrote:- Anime stylistics (improbable weapons - and defaulting to biggest meatcleaver you can find shouldn't be the best option always; improbable clothes and hairstyles; flashy powers; battle auras). Benefits for acting stylishly also should exist.

- Relationship between weak and fragile normal humans and massively empowered Chosen. I must say that actual Exalted setting - except perhaps the first DB book, which is one of the reasons people like it - really failed to explore this theme in anything approaching a realistic way.

- No clearly defined good and evil factions, everyone has a legitimate cause. Yes, I know, this was written out of the actual Exalted setting after the first few books, but I still prefer this.

Also:

[*] Had a good default campaign setting to stomp around in. Exalted's default campaign setting and backstory and godly pantheon actually works pretty okay for me.

[*] Had a better melee combat engine. d20's is actually pretty acceptable to me.

[*] Toned down the power level. Like FatR said in his Anatomy of Failed Design thread, I'd rather have things be more like Dynasty Warriors topping out at God of War than post-Raditz Dragonball. And believe me, there is a difference.

Then that would pretty much destroy any reason for anyone to ever think about Exalted ever again.

In other words, what I want is a fusion of Jade Empire and Warp Cult. Jade Empire's campaign setting is morbidly and delightfully fucked up once you get past the generic wuxia veneer. And if you pay enough attention you'll have the 'little people' complain or comment about how if you're not a superpowered martial artist then the setting is pretty horrific. And I think that's what people want out of Exalted. It's a horror game unless you're playing the protagonist and your goal is to push it towards epic fantasy.

I think that's what people want out of Exalted. It's a horror game unless you're playing the protagonist and your goal is to push it towards epic fantasy.

Yes, exactly this.

Josh_Kablack wrote:Parts of Exalted I'd want to keep for a fantasy lungbreaker:

• The over the top power level - player characters are expected to go around punching gods in the face.

n-th-ing this. I like the 'mythic fantasy' part of the concept.

So what about a base system? Feng Shui?

If d20 wasn't such a maligned system for its overused, I'd actually say to use d20. The d20 system actually works very well for the kind of game that Exalted claims that it is.

The only real fly in the ointment is that d20 also revolves around the Class and Level system, which probably feels counterintuitive for Exalted people. However, I always thought that the charm system for Exalted was extremely clunky and unbalanced and even MORE counterintuitive. And that it should really be a class system anyway. A skill point system works very well for games that lack either horizontal or vertical advancement (or ideally, both), but Exalted has you growing in both directions. Not only is that almost impossible to balance but due to prerequisites doesn't even feel right. Putting essence caps and charm prerequisites on nearly everything of note makes your game indistinguishable from a loose class system anyway.

I mean, really, is there a reason why Prismatic Shards of Creation or Dreaming Pearl Courtesian style just shouldn't be styles you take for the Celestial Martial Artist prestige class? Why should I sink every resource I have just to become competent in the Bureaucracy or Sailing trees -- those should be like feats. You should have the entire crafting tree after like two levels (out of 20) of investment.

After you do that you can have appropriate parties. Mortals start out at level 1. Dragonblooded at like level 3. Celestials at level 7. Exaltation makes you jump several levels at once.

I suggestusing a 3d6 system. That should work fairly well for making sure that your level 8 PC can beat up the level 6 celestial tigers reliably and that said tigers can in turn eat level 3 guards without breaking a sweat while also making sure that you can not totally ignore something below your level. If you want to go with a d20 system instead you more or less have to give crazy scaling bonuses to everyone, just to have a meaningful difference between someone who is level 5 and someone who is level 6.

Murtak wrote:If you want to go with a d20 system instead you more or less have to give crazy scaling bonuses to everyone, just to have a meaningful difference between someone who is level 5 and someone who is level 6.

The original Exalted didn't scale like that at all. The difference between a newly Exalted Dragonblooded and a battle-scarred veteran of Wyld Hunts in fighting ability is seriously like 2 levels, max. I mean, 10 well-trained Dragonblooded are supposed to be a mortal challenge for a newly-exalted Solar troupe. The sharp difference in power level starts coming into play when we're talking about Deathlords and elder Sids and whatever. Which can be represented (if you want) by just making those a-holes level 16 on up while having most characters in the level 7-10 range.