The Gaming Den

Kaelik wrote:This. I've seen one "social" system that was better than MTP, and that's Shadowrun shopping/Shadowrun asking your contacts to look into stuff.

I wouldn't classify this as a social system, as it doesn't support interactions between PC-PC, only PC-NPC. A proper social mechanic should accommodate both IMO.

See Cortex+, Hillfolk or DitV for examples of this.

MGuy wrote:The Face' is, I think a pretty recognizable role that's worth having some levels of disparity to distinguish those who go all in on it vs those who don't whether this manifests as vertical differences (where some have higher numbers) or horizontally (where charismatic characters have more ways to engage social encounters*). Skilled weapon fetishist is a thing people like and want to have in these games and I think talky talky man is similarly in need of support in these rpgs. Unless the ttrpg in question features everyone as a talker of some sort or where influencing people has such marginal use that there is no reason to dedicate space on a character sheet to the idea.

Yup, this.

Guts wrote:

Kaelik wrote:This. I've seen one "social" system that was better than MTP, and that's Shadowrun shopping/Shadowrun asking your contacts to look into stuff.

I wouldn't classify this as a social system, as it doesn't support interactions between PC-PC, only PC-NPC. A proper social mechanic should accommodate both IMO.

See Cortex+, Hillfolk or DitV for examples of this.

MGuy wrote:The Face' is, I think a pretty recognizable role that's worth having some levels of disparity to distinguish those who go all in on it vs those who don't whether this manifests as vertical differences (where some have higher numbers) or horizontally (where charismatic characters have more ways to engage social encounters*). Skilled weapon fetishist is a thing people like and want to have in these games and I think talky talky man is similarly in need of support in these rpgs. Unless the ttrpg in question features everyone as a talker of some sort or where influencing people has such marginal use that there is no reason to dedicate space on a character sheet to the idea.

Yup, this.

Fuck off.

Any PC vs PC or NPC on PC social manipulation system will devolve into combat. Simply because the use of a social manipulation system is an attack. And unless you're drastically socially superior while being physically inferior, you'll generally have better odds just pulling out your weapon and killing the guy trying to talk to you instead of letting him get his hooks in.
Which is obviously not something you want to encourage.

This is a major problem with Exalted, where the rational response to your friendly neighbor saying "hello" is to murder him, because his greeting might have actually been a social charm designed to convince you to murder your family. But it's also a problem in any game where there are things that some or all players don't want to do. Which is all games.

A good social manipulation system requires that all players are on board and want to be socially manipulated. You can find players who enjoy that sort of thing. But at that point, you are better off just MTPing it instead of introducing complicated mechanics. And if you need mechanics to adjudicate, it can be as simple as a Charisma vs Wisdom opposed roll.

MGuy wrote:I think talky talky man is similarly in need of support in these rpgs.

Talking isn't actually the only role you can have in a social encounter. There is at least also research, understanding the person you're talking to and figuring out how to get them what they want so the talky guys can offer it in the most appealing way.

It's out, it's here, it's ready to revitalize the idea that 3.5 was always meant to die and be reborn as some horrible hybrid of itself and 4e.

Behold: http://2e.aonprd.com/

They finally killed Resonance at least.

For the record I'm not 'for' PC v PC or NPC v PC social mechanics only because people don't like it. Anything I would want to put into any game I make I would do so with the intent on making it more playable for your average player and most players, including myself, would be very uncomfortable with having their actions and character opinions changed by any system outside of their control save for direct fuckery from domination esque spells but even then only in extremely limited cases.

Outside of that it's fine. The whole chain of logic where the ability of people to talk to people will inevitably lead to neighbor murder just.... Doesn't sit well with me. The broader question of what happens in a world with charm magic and how do people deal with that is probably interesting but I think is divorced from the idea of having social mechanics exist.

On exalted combat combat, doesn’t a social attack grind down your willpower or some stat that makes you less able to perfect defense in a ‘real fght’?

PC vs PC vs DMPC vs PC mechanics work out better when the PC’s have more plot control powers, but few RPGs do that. One shot games tend to favor that as everything is settled after everyone’s done eating pizza