The reason why fighters will never have nice things.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Shart Tzar, that's retarded. Spells tell you what they can do, not what they can't do. At no point does it say that Stone Shape can't shape the stone into a plasma or a singularity by manipulating its density. At no point does the game say that you can't manifest a supernova with the power of your nerdrage. All of that is bullshit, and so was what happened in your example.

[Midnight_v]

@ kaelik.

Bravo sir...
shadazar exemplifies whats wrong with people who try to play the game not the rules. They're too busy trying to bullshit through the game to actually notice things that work sans bullshit.

show me where it says the stone cant be shaped in the way i did it, Moldlice_Vagina

You're actually attempting to mock my online name?
Why bother explaining anything to you, you're rather obviously a fucking moron.
Still I am glad of this... you lost. In the end your style of shitgrog D&D or magical tea party (or whatever term offends you them most is actually) GONE. Right wrong stupid or sage wise, what you espouse THAT particular play style... virtually wiped from D&D.
I'm sure thats very shitty in more than a couple ways for you, knowing that an asshole like you isn't getting what he wants out of his entertainment time is rather quite rewarding on some level.
Preaching the "true path to D&D enligtenment" or whatever derogatory thing you can think to replace with the roll vs role shit, is just dick wank bullshit. Still you lose. D&D as you'd like it is just fucking gone. . . ha fucking ha.
Now I use my taunt. Shadzar must save or attack me!

[shadzar]

@ kaelik.

Bravo sir...
shadazar exemplifies whats wrong with people who try to play the game not the rules. They're too busy trying to bullshit through the game to actually notice things that work sans bullshit.

show me where it says the stone cant be shaped in the way i did it, Moldlice_Vagina

While you're at it, show me where in the Monopoly rules it says I can't move on someone else's turn.
Also, although the rules say that you gain a level when you accumulate enough XP, they don't forbid gaining levels before then! I like to "power up" Dragon Ball Z style whenever we run into a challenge that's too difficult. The idiots I game with don't like that though, cuz "it's not in the rules."

and here is why NOBODY can have nice things, because the extremists get so scared when their box is taken away form them, they dont know how to face the world outside it without the protection of their box.

this again is why 3rd edition created the retards that ruined D&D as well as those who created 3rd ruined it....they think every possible thing you can do should be coded into the rules because they think D&D is a computer MMO.

page 4 of the 3.5 PHB really fucks people up...

"This players handbook has all the rules"

as compared to say 2nd edition's DMG...

At conventions, in letters, and over the phone I'm often asked for the instant answer to a fine point of the game rules. More often than not, I come back with a question--what do you feel is right? And the people asking the questions discover that not only can they create an answer, but that their answer is as good as anyone else's. The rules are only guidelines.


Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.

its how people for 3rd were taught to play, that the rules are all there is.

again this is why i say morons playing D&D that came up or in with 3rd have no idea what they are doing and are just playing some attempt at an RPG that is really a miniature wargame...because they cannot think outside their MMO hard-coded rules.

for fuck's sake people the rules/books dont tell you everything and do NOT have all the answers!

[PoliteNewb]

I don't know how 1st and 2nd Edition went, but 3E is actually a really bad benchmark to use for epic-level adventures (unless you're using the actual Epic-Level handbook) because they have the reverse problem of 4E.

That is, they have a low-level mentality and don't realize that the game is going into crazy-town. Seriously, read the FRPG or the Dragonlance Campaign Setting books. The NPCs that have levels in the high teens do basic kiddy-grade bullshit. Seriously, there's a class in Dragonlance where you are at a minimum level 17 when you complete it and all it does is... let you ride a dragon. In a setting where even mooks have dragons to ride. How could anyone who knew what D&D spells and effects are capable of doing overlook this? The answer is that they DON'T.

All I'm saying is, here is how some people who presumably know something about the game are defining "high-level". I figured you would disagree...but I would also appreciate it if you would give some of your own examples of what you think "high-level" adventures are like, or what you'd like to be doing at "high-level".

I'm tentatively defining "high-level" as the upper quarter of attainable power levels...in 1E/2E, you seldom got past 9th and almost never past 14th, so anything in that range is high-level. In 3E, getting to 20th is actually doable in a reasonable time span, so 15th-20th is high-level.

So lay it on me: what kind of crazy-town adventures do you want? If no published adventures fit the bill, give me some adventures you've been on, or run, or seen, or heard about.

Also...can we get back to ignoring Shad instead of talking to him? This thread is bogging down in shit.

[fectin]

But someone is wrong on the Internet! If I ignore him, he'll keep being wrong!

[MGuy]

Not ignoring him isn't making him less wrong though.

[RobbyPants]

show me where it says the stone cant be shaped in the way i did it, Moldlice_Vagina

You see, he obviously doesn't even want to be taken seriously.

[BearsAreBrown]

@Lago PARANOIA, I agree with you sentiment about high level adventures. But similar to PoliteNoob, I must say, please show me some high level adventures either or theory or in media.

[FatR]

This. If there is going to be any discussion about what "high level fighters" should do (or hell, what high level wizards should do), we need to define what "high level" is, and what "high level adventures" are. Because people have radically different definitions.

I can provide an example of my longest campaign, since going back to DnD. It was basically Rise of the Runelords adventure path refluffed and changed a bit here and there. Not all of the things below actually happened, as one of the key players moved to another city, and the game fell apart, but I had them outlined.
So, by two-digit levels PCs travel to the parallel world of fey and megafauna to battle a horde of giants led by what appears to be the most talented wizard in generations, before said wizard finds a way to transport his army to their world. There is also a weird black magic cult staffed by shapeshifter monsters involved. After arriving in the enemies' dimension, the party either assassinates the wizards chieftain or turns his followers against him. After the dust clears, they learn that said chieftain and indeed almost all instigators of the recent troubles, worked for the true BBEG, ancient uberwizard from now-forgotten land. Said uberwizard once was struck down by divine legions after trying to usurp the pantheon's power, but managed to dodge death and now plots the return to even greater power with the help of his slave races that still inherit killswitches he can pull at any time. At the moment, the BBEG still cannot personally leave his hideout, but soon will be able to.

After learning that, PCs go to an extradimensional arsenal left behind by the BBEG, to find there weapons against him (but actually clues leading there are left by BBEG, who intends to manipulate them into bringing some important components to him). There PCs battle immortal spellcasters trapped there, deal with test subjects of the facility, in a violent way or not, and try to outsmart bound demons.

After emerging back to their world, PCs find most of the region (but primarily parts they don't care about that much) burninated by BBEG's chief lieuenants and learn that a gigantic city appeared out of nowhere amond the world's highest and most inhospitable mountains. The bigshots of the continent where actions happens tried to deal with the problem, as soon as blips appeared on their divination radars, but, primarily thanks to their internal problems, got their asses handed to them. PCs gather numerous allies they obtained on the way, hopefully obtain some heavenly support, go to the BBEG's city, battle a whole army of giants, magical monsters and wizards, carve their way to the BBEG's magical citadel and kill his ass before he can absorb EXP of the souls sacrificed to him during the course of the campaign and emerge into the world as a godlike demon prince.

After that, as even before all the stuff described above PCs were made major nobles in one of the more influential local kingdoms for their heroic deeds, surviving population would have probably begged them to crown one of them as the emperor of the region. They would have also inherited the BBEG's city of gold and, quite likely, his remaining (or, knowing my players, revived, in case of those who served the BBEG because he had a magical remote of blowing them up) followers. Unfortunately, we never got even close to the final battle...

Anyway, PCs were supposed to end this campaign at level 16.

[mean_liar]

Questing to find a transformative MacGuffin from an age predating the setting's Titanomachy, enabling 3e characters to achieve Epic levels and abilities. Currently at level 13, set to go until I hate DnD or I finally execute a TPK.

[tzor]

2. the ceiling was in range since STONE shape doesnt say you have to touch the exact spot you are trying to shape and the room was carved out of the stone cavern so ANY part of the room was within range as long as i could touch it.

I don't have access to the 3E SRD (from work) but I'm pretty sure (off of the top of my head) that you had to touch some part of the volume of stone you wish to shape. Not the exact spot you are shaping, but the volume of stone shape was so relatively small that I don't think that was technically possible.

I'll look it up when I get home with my hardcoppy.

[shadzar]

2. the ceiling was in range since STONE shape doesnt say you have to touch the exact spot you are trying to shape and the room was carved out of the stone cavern so ANY part of the room was within range as long as i could touch it.

I don't have access to the 3E SRD (from work) but I'm pretty sure (off of the top of my head) that you had to touch some part of the volume of stone you wish to shape. Not the exact spot you are shaping, but the volume of stone shape was so relatively small that I don't think that was technically possible.

I'll look it up when I get home with my hardcoppy.

the entire thing was stone, and i was able to touch part...so the DM said no reason it couldnt be done from a distance.

i CAN see where you are coming from being say grab a statue and turn it into a stone hammer...

10 cu foot + 1 cu ft per level

[Kaelik]

the entire thing was stone, and i was able to touch part...so the DM said no reason it couldnt be done from a distance.

So just to be clear, your Dm thinks that you can stoneshape things in China because after all, the earth is made of stone?

[shadzar]

the entire thing was stone, and i was able to touch part...so the DM said no reason it couldnt be done from a distance.

So just to be clear, your Dm thinks that you can stoneshape things in China because after all, the earth is made of stone?

no the room had been carved out of a single mass of stone...not that it had some stone within the earth...

[Prak]

4. the DM actually suggested i "shape" a section OUT of the ceiling so that it would drop on the bug, bug i reminded him we were playing 3rd, not 2nd and the morons that play 3rd wouldnt be able to wrap their small brains around how you could create a damage dealing affect form a spell without damage assigned to it, so went with the conical shape as to pin the monster so that we could get past it rather than worry about any damage to slow the game down with figuring it out as well slowing the game down and having to explain to the 3-tards those parts of science that their short-bus brains couldnt handle even when they were in school.

Or, you know, you could just figure out the rough size and look up either the improvised weapons rules, or the falling damage rules. I'm fairly certain there are rules for falling objects hitting creatures *somewhere*

[shadzar]

4. the DM actually suggested i "shape" a section OUT of the ceiling so that it would drop on the bug, bug i reminded him we were playing 3rd, not 2nd and the morons that play 3rd wouldnt be able to wrap their small brains around how you could create a damage dealing affect form a spell without damage assigned to it, so went with the conical shape as to pin the monster so that we could get past it rather than worry about any damage to slow the game down with figuring it out as well slowing the game down and having to explain to the 3-tards those parts of science that their short-bus brains couldnt handle even when they were in school.

Or, you know, you could just figure out the rough size and look up either the improvised weapons rules, or the falling damage rules. I'm fairly certain there are rules for falling objects hitting creatures *somewhere*

yet falling object wouldnt have gotten us out of the predicament where pinning the monster so we could escape did....

why go around my ass to get to my elbow through several things, where one thing will do the job nicely?

i wasnt going to read through heaps of books in a shitty game, just because i was asked to sit-in for someone that was missing. nor was i going to fuck around trying to learn someone else's character behavior when a single task was needed and performed....

[Archmage]

Shadzar summary: "I can't be arsed to learn the rules, and I think the game is much better when the DM doesn't bother learning them either."

[Kaelik]

the entire thing was stone, and i was able to touch part...so the DM said no reason it couldnt be done from a distance.

So just to be clear, your Dm thinks that you can stoneshape things in China because after all, the earth is made of stone?

no the room had been carved out of a single mass of stone...not that it had some stone within the earth...

The entire earth is a single mass of stone. At least the stone parts.

[Roy]

Shadzar summary: "I can't be arsed to learn the rules, and I think the game is much better when the DM doesn't bother learning them either."

Plus Fucking One.

[shadzar]

Shadzar summary: "I can't be arsed to learn the rules, and I think the game is much better when the DM doesn't bother learning them either."

no dick-licker, the DM knew them, but i have no use for 3rd edition. the other people brought up thinking 3rd was Ao's gift to roleplaying were just retards he was tired of doing the same damn things over and over and not thinking outside the box frankly boring him to not want to DM. granted most were 3rds prime target market...video gamers and Magic players.

again i wait for the intelligent person to get home from work and look at the rules and tell me if the scenario should have worked or not rather than the other rabble to just claim it couldnt, since he played a version that MADE you think for yourself rather than let WotC think for you.

and no i wasnt about to try to learn all the 3rd edition rules even though i had to play it a few times to fill in for people. i played as i would play ANY D&D..and surprised the hell out of some that never thought they could do some of the things i did, and others were just shocked i wasnt following some script but had the nerve to think for myself. some of them actually became better players.

likewise a game day with the minis promoting the adventure the DM wanted me to join his game with how i got people that had never played before to just play and not trivialize over what damage a vial of acid did, and we made it through to kill the hellcat mini with 3 tweens and few times to stop to look up any rules during or out of combat. because they didnt stop to try to calculate which spell or weapon would do the most damage, they just did what they thought would be cool to do and tried to be safe while doing it. the table full of veteran 3rd edition players struggled to finish in the time allowed because they were looking up and counting things up form the rules ALL the time.

[shadzar]

So just to be clear, your Dm thinks that you can stoneshape things in China because after all, the earth is made of stone?

no the room had been carved out of a single mass of stone...not that it had some stone within the earth...

The entire earth is a single mass of stone. At least the stone parts.

really? you would let stoneshape work on loose dirt? interesting...where do the rules allow that? but then again...where do the rules define "stone"?

guess it is up for individual determination/interpretation what is meant when the word "stone" isnt defined.

[Krakatoa]

Great scott, your stupidity is astounding.

[PoliteNewb]

Jesus. Do you fuckers realize 80% of this page is Shadzar's asshattery, or responses thereto?

Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. If you feed the troll, he will grow fat and have diarrhea all over your thread.

[Roy]

Shadzar summary: "I can't be arsed to learn the rules, and I think the game is much better when the DM doesn't bother learning them either."

no dick-licker, the DM knew them, but i have no use for 3rd edition. the other people brought up thinking 3rd was Ao's gift to roleplaying were just retards he was tired of doing the same damn things over and over and not thinking outside the box frankly boring him to not want to DM. granted most were 3rds prime target market...video gamers and Magic players.

again i wait for the intelligent person to get home from work and look at the rules and tell me if the scenario should have worked or not rather than the other rabble to just claim it couldnt, since he played a version that MADE you think for yourself rather than let WotC think for you.

and no i wasnt about to try to learn all the 3rd edition rules even though i had to play it a few times to fill in for people. i played as i would play ANY D&D..and surprised the hell out of some that never thought they could do some of the things i did, and others were just shocked i wasnt following some script but had the nerve to think for myself. some of them actually became better players.

likewise a game day with the minis promoting the adventure the DM wanted me to join his game with how i got people that had never played before to just play and not trivialize over what damage a vial of acid did, and we made it through to kill the hellcat mini with 3 tweens and few times to stop to look up any rules during or out of combat. because they didnt stop to try to calculate which spell or weapon would do the most damage, they just did what they thought would be cool to do and tried to be safe while doing it. the table full of veteran 3rd edition players struggled to finish in the time allowed because they were looking up and counting things up form the rules ALL the time.

Don't hate me for this fbmf but...

Hi Welcome

It had to be said.

[Judging__Eagle]

Krakatoa,

Welcome to the Den.

You don't earn one until you can identify a Shadzar, Elennsar, or other such hyprocricy on sight.

You may elect to put them on Ignore, but, that's a cop out imo. I personally don't put anyone on Ignore, unless they're posting like.... really severe guro BS here. Don't feel wrong about the Ignore button though, lots of people use it. I'm just not really one of them.