Annoying Game Questions You Want Answered

[Chamomile]

Combined with the fact that you can interrupt casters while casting, the necklace of fireballs is the only reason you can clear out one super difficult optional combat in Pool of Radiance. It's stacked neck-deep in Clerics who cast Hold Person but if you've been saving the necklace you can spam fireballs in their center and interrupt basically all of the casting. After a few rounds, not only have you dramatically reduced the number of saves you have to make, you'll also have killed about half the Clerics with the necklace alone, never mind the fact that your own Clerics will be spitting out Hold Person spells of their own and your frontline Fighters can chew through held enemy Clerics at a rate of one per attack.

[Username17]

If you are writing mechanics, those should not be paid for on a per word basis.

All writing is paid by the word. If you want someone to write a chapter, you will give them a target wordcount and you'll give them an amount of money. The payment per word is the one divided by the other.

-Username17

[Avoraciopoctules]

I am designing a 3.x / Pathfinder dungeon that includes lots of exposed copper wire thrumming with electrical current. Basically, there are type A and type B lines. Type A is active, and type B is inactive.

I want to include like a half a dozen "switches" that reverse things, turning the inactive wires live and deactivating the formerly active ones.

Could somebody with more knowledge of electronics than I explain whether something like that is plausible in the real world? My main stumbling block is that it seems difficult to make each switch do the same reversal without some kind of parallel wiring, and that would probably just shut the whole thing down.

[shadzar]

depends on where you want these switches as to how many you would need. think like a ceiling light with 2 switches. both down and the light is off. yet flipping both switches again to the up position they are still off. only an odd number of switching will cause a change.

3 switches all down is off, then all up is on.

of course the more switches the more times it could be switched between to make the number of switchings more than the number of switches.

[name_here]

Well, there are rooms in my house where multiple switches can toggle the status of the lights, so it must be possible.

It could probably be represented as a logic gate array where each switch is an input and it's on if an odd number are high and off if an even number as high. I think XOR does that when generalized to more than two inputs.

Or it could be a state machine with two states per switch configuration, with each state feeding into states of opposite polarity. Well, more specifically, the result of setting that up in a table and pairing it way the hell down,

[Avoraciopoctules]

Shadzar, name_here, thanks for your input.

[tussock]

A good writer should be able to do 1000 words an hour easily.

Good writers put out about 300-400 thousand published words a year, as little as 1000 words per day. I'll assume the rest of your post is just as wrong and award you a D- for creativity.

[Avoraciopoctules]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/350 ... finder-rpg

Someone on SA plugged this KS project. In theory, I might be willing to shell out for a big spell splatbook if it was actually good. That's a big if though. I know there are a lot of people on TGD that pay attention to RPG writers and their track records, are there any red flags I might be missing?

[zugschef]

1. Can 3.5 wizards copy divine spells and spells not on their spell list into their spellbooks and if yes, can they prepare and cast these spells?

   A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). [...] Divine spells can be written down and deciphered just as arcane spells can (see Arcane Magical Writings).

2. Can 3.5 sorcerers learn spells not on the sorcerer/wizard list without research?

   A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

[shadzar]

1. Can 3.5 wizards copy divine spells and spells not on their spell list into their spellbooks and if yes, can they prepare and cast these spells?

   A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). [...] Divine spells can be written down and deciphered just as arcane spells can (see Arcane Magical Writings).

2. Can 3.5 sorcerers learn spells not on the sorcerer/wizard list without research?

   A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

are you asking questions or answering for someone else?

1. ask your DM as this contradicts the case of divine and arcane being separate. or it may be that the divine spell functions differently than as written in the book for its arcane counterpart. first instinct is divine spells are NOT the realm of the arcane caster so they can't even use them, even if they COULD scribe them. depends on the type of game as to whether i would do either of those or something else as the DM. preference tells me to go with divine spells not allowed by the wizard, let them use, um ... 3.5 term is spellcraft i think...to see the spell and try to emulate it through research to CREATE a wizard version.

2. seems it is saying like i would do. an ARCANE caster can make any spell they want. want a cantrip with more power, then research a way to do it and make it a full spell. this is probably how ALL spells came about when someone refined some minor little feat of prestidigitation into a full blown spell. i would guess it would depend on how close 3.5 details sorcerers as separate from wizards. arent they only different in the case of vancian and non-vancian? or was it spellbook is the wizards spell list and sorcerer can cast spells "at-will" with a limit per level that they know and dont have a spellbook? keyword would be PRIMARILY as opposed to ONLY. is the Sorc a specialist with a specific subset of wizard spells to choose from?

hope this helps or at least gives ideas since i dont know 3rd...

[deaddmwalking]

1. Can 3.5 wizards copy divine spells and spells not on their spell list into their spellbooks and if yes, can they prepare and cast these spells?

I don't know how much citation you need, so in brief - no. In order to prepare and cast a spell, it must be on the Wizard/Sorcerer list. They can research divine spells and create an arcane version (adding it to their spell list). Without research and adding it to their spell list, they cannot cast it. DMs are discouraged from allowing wizard/sorcerers to learn healing magic, but there already exists Arcane Healing (bard).

[*]Can 3.5 sorcerers learn spells not on the sorcerer/wizard list without research?

They can learn any spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard list. They can't typically add a spell to the list without research.

[Username17]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/350 ... finder-rpg

Someone on SA plugged this KS project. In theory, I might be willing to shell out for a big spell splatbook if it was actually good. That's a big if though. I know there are a lot of people on TGD that pay attention to RPG writers and their track records, are there any red flags I might be missing?

We asked D&D Next designer Bruce Cordell why magic is so important to fantasy RPGs.

Italics and bolding are original.

-Username17

[Avoraciopoctules]

Oh. Well, that says quite a lot, then. Thanks.

[Username17]

1. Can 3.5 wizards copy divine spells and spells not on their spell list into their spellbooks and if yes, can they prepare and cast these spells?

I don't know how much citation you need, so in brief - no. In order to prepare and cast a spell, it must be on the Wizard/Sorcerer list. They can research divine spells and create an arcane version (adding it to their spell list). Without research and adding it to their spell list, they cannot cast it. DMs are discouraged from allowing wizard/sorcerers to learn healing magic, but there already exists Arcane Healing (bard).

[*]Can 3.5 sorcerers learn spells not on the sorcerer/wizard list without research?

They can learn any spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard list. They can't typically add a spell to the list without research.

This is basically completely wrong. You can cast any spell you know, as long as you know it within the context of the class whose spell slot you are attempting to use. If you take a feat like Oneiromancy or a class like Sandcaster that adds a bunch of extra spells known, you can bloody well cast them even if they aren't on your normal class list. The Wizard text about being able to learn spells from scrolls even if they aren't on the Wizard spell list is actually extremely unambiguous. It totally says that you can learn spells off Cleric scrolls and then you can cast them because they are known spells for you.

However, this is extremely obviously not the rules as intended, as evidenced by the fact that the authors of the game keep putting out shit like Divine Disciple and the Archivist that explicitly let you learn spells off other lists as if they didn't know that the Wizard's spell learning writeup already explicitly does exactly that without setting feats on fire.

More importantly, the number of DMs who are willing to accept this particular part of the rules rather than pulling out the "folksy wisdom" that DeadDMWalking just pulled out of his ass is vanishingly small. People in general, and your DM in particular, simply assume that there is a limitation somewhere that prevents Wizards from picking up a scroll of a Druid spell, writing it into their spellbook, and then preparing it on later adventures. Such a limiting rule does not exist, but it may as well because in most instances a player attempting to do so will be stuck in the unenviable position of being asked to "prove a negative". Namely, that the onus is on the Wizard player to prove to the DM that no piece of text exists that contradicts or limits the player's ability to learn any spell from a magical writing that they can decipher.

It simply breaks DMs brains that:

• You can't cast a spell from a scroll of another class' spell.
• You can't learn a spell from another class as one of your 2 free spells per level.
• You can't get a teacher from another class to teach you their spells.
  
  but....
• You can learn a spell from any scroll you have deciphered, and you are explicitly allowed to decipher scrolls for other classes.

That last part, while totally true in the rules as written, is very obviously the odd man out in that list. In the vast majority of games it is simply not allowed on the grounds that it goes against the way DMs think the game works.

-Username17

[Lago PARANOIA]

You know, Mike Mearls is still my most hated TTRPG designer. But even though he's unlikely to be dethroned as the most hacktastic hack that ever put pen to paper, Bruce Cordell has been making a strong showing for the past few years.

Reach for the stars, you fulminating asshole.

[deaddmwalking]

This is basically completely wrong.

Frank,

You're right about a lot of stuff, but you're wrong here.

Note that there is a section in the PHB and SRD on both Arcane Magical Writings and Divine Magical Writings.

Since Wizards cast Arcane Spells, they cannot cast a Divine spell.

Under Divine Magical Writing it says:

Divine Magical Writings
Divine spells can be written down and deciphered just as arcane spells can (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Any character with the Spellcraft skill can attempt to decipher the divine magical writing and identify it. However, only characters who have teh spell in question (in its divine form) on their class spell list can cast a divine spell from the scroll.

I think the confusion is that the section on learning spells references only the Arcane Magical Writings, failing to mention Divine Magical Writings.

Elsewhere, it mentions that Arcane Spells can be learned from scrolls, other caster's spell books.

It helps to keep in mind that in the PHB this is all in the 'Arcane Magical Writings' section, meaning that everything in this section pertains specifically to arcane magical writings, and does not apply to divine magical writings, which are covered separately.

No folksy wisdom from me.

Edit - This is also relevant

Level
...This number is preceded by an abbreviation for the class whose members can cast the spell.

[Kaelik]

Divine Magical Writings
Divine spells can be written down and deciphered just as arcane spells can (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Any character with the Spellcraft skill can attempt to decipher the divine magical writing and identify it. However, only characters who have teh spell in question (in its divine form) on their class spell list can cast a divine spell from the scroll.

I think the confusion is that the section on learning spells references only the Arcane Magical Writings, failing to mention Divine Magical Writings.

That doesn't contradict what Frank said. He just said that Wizards cannot cast divine spells from scroll, but can learn them and add them to their spells known.

Elsewhere, it mentions that Arcane Spells can be learned from scrolls, other caster's spell books.

Great, but the fact that is says that you can learn Arcane spells from scrolls doesn't mean the text about how Wizards can learn any spells from scrolls cease to apply to divine spells.

[Koumei]

Elsewhere, it mentions that Arcane Spells can be learned from scrolls, other caster's spell books.

Man, if only there were some kind of creature that could cast as a Sorcerer but explicitly had the Cleric spell list and could cast those spells as Arcane spells or even scribe scrolls of them as Arcane Sorc/Wiz spells! But surely such a creature could not exist!

Or indeed, a smartass Warlock (level 12, shitty CArc version) who scribes scrolls not through knowing the spells but through bullshitting it with UMD and can go "Yeah I'll whip up a scroll of (Heal, Blasphemy, whatever), and... what the hell, I'll make it an Arcane scroll for kicks".

[deaddmwalking]

Great, but the fact that is says that you can learn Arcane spells from scrolls doesn't mean the text about how Wizards can learn any spells from scrolls cease to apply to divine spells.

I'm surprised that a careful textual analysis is required, but I'll indulge you.

Spells
A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

....

Spellbooks
A wizard must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory.

A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.

Okay, at this point it's been specified that a Wizard casts spells from the Wizard/Sorcerer list, and that they can add spells from spellbooks. We have to go further before we can add spells from scrolls.

Before we look at learning spells from scrolls, it's worth reviewing the Activation requirements.

Activation
To activate a scroll, a spellcaster must read the spell written on it. Doing so involves several steps and conditions.

Decipher the Writing
The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level).

Deciphering a scroll to determine its contents does not activate its magic unless it is a specially prepared cursed scroll. A character can decipher the writing on a scroll in advance so that he or she can proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use the scroll.

Activate the Spell
Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
The user must have the requisite ability score.
If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.

From this, it is very clear that you can only activate a scroll if it is of the type appropriate for your class (Arcane for Wizards) and the spell is on your class list.

In the section on Arcane Writing we can add 'arcane' to every subsequent reference.

{bracketed text is added for clarification}
Adding Spells to a Wizard’s Spellbook
Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods. If a wizard has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, she can learn spells only from schools whose spells she can cast.

Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll
A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a {arcane magical writing} magic scroll or in another {arcane magical writing} wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s {arcane magical writing} source, the wizard must first decipher the magical arcane writing {I didn't add anything there} (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

Because this is all in the Arcane Writings section, there is no reason to assume that it applies to anything that is not an arcane writing.

Moving on to Divine Magical Writing it says:

ivine spells can be written down and deciphered just as arcane spells can

This clearly refers to the Spellcraft check to decipher the scroll (as described in Arcane Magical Writing).

So, where does it say that a Wizard can learn a spell that isn't on his spell list? Please tell me it says it somewhere other than the Arcane Magical Writing section, because if it doesn't, the implication is that these instructions apply only to Arcane Magical Writing.

I'm not crazy, here.

[deaddmwalking]

Elsewhere, it mentions that Arcane Spells can be learned from scrolls, other caster's spell books.

Man, if only there were some kind of creature that could cast as a Sorcerer but explicitly had the Cleric spell list and could cast those spells as Arcane spells or even scribe scrolls of them as Arcane Sorc/Wiz spells! But surely such a creature could not exist!

Or indeed, a smartass Warlock (level 12, shitty CArc version) who scribes scrolls not through knowing the spells but through bullshitting it with UMD and can go "Yeah I'll whip up a scroll of (Heal, Blasphemy, whatever), and... what the hell, I'll make it an Arcane scroll for kicks".

I'm not saying there aren't lots of ways around it. As I pointed out in my original post, there are plenty of arcane healing spells. But you can't just pick up a divine scroll and add it to your spells known. Any reading to that effect goes well beyond 'permissive'.

Now, I'm not saying I'd object to it. Why should Clerics have all the healing? But in a core only game, you're going to have a hard time getting divine spells into your Wizard's spellbook without the independent research.

[Meikle641]

Someone messed up their quote tags.

[deaddmwalking]

Someone messed up their quote tags.

It was my brackets. Replaced them with {} to clear up the formatting.

In any case, also of note:

Wizards and sorcerers should not cast healing spells, but they should have the best offensive spells.

Bold added for emphasis.

[Kaelik]

So, where does it say that a Wizard can learn a spell that isn't on his spell list? Please tell me it says it somewhere other than the Arcane Magical Writing section, because if it doesn't, the implication is that these instructions apply only to Arcane Magical Writing.

I'm not crazy, here.

So just to be clear, your position is that if you add the word "Arcane" in a bunch of places it isn't in the rules, and then you arbitrarily declare that "as arcane writings" means "as arcane writings, except for all the things that arcane writings do that I don't want it to include" then no where in the rules does it say that Wizards can add spells from scrolls.

Great.

In further news, it turns out that Wizards can actually cast 9th level spells out of 1st level slots because if you add the words "and 9th level spells" in a whole bunch of places it isn't, they can now cast 9th level spells in first level slots.

[zugschef]

Thanks for the information on the wizard.

Now what about the sorcerer? He casts spells drawn "primarily" from the sorc/wiz list. Doesn't that imply that he can draw spells from other lists, too?

[Username17]

Thanks for the information on the wizard.

Now what about the sorcerer? He casts spells drawn "primarily" from the sorc/wiz list. Doesn't that imply that he can draw spells from other lists, too?

The Sorcerer learns spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard list when he goes up in level. That is his only standard way of learning spells, and he can only cast spells that he knows. He can do original spell research, which allows the next spell he learns from going up a level to be off list. Also, there are innumerate ways of adding spells to your spells known, and in doing so you can then cast them. But your free spells from going up a level come off the Sorcerer/Wizard list, so until you do something like take a level of Sandcaster or spend some downtime doing spell research or something, that's all you get.

But DeadDMWalking's tirade about how it says "arcane" a bunch of places in the book and therefore it magically must include an arcane scroll limitation on the part of the book where it says you can learn a spell off any scroll you decipher, even though it totally doesn't say that, is precisely the problem you're always going to have in trying to learn spells off of Druid scrolls. It really isn't that any such limitation exists, it's that DeadDMWalking is extremely representative of DMs, and your DM is almost certainly going to make the same argument. It says "arcane" everywhere else in the book, so presumably it meant to limit you to deciphered arcane scrolls, and now the burden of proof is on you to show that such a limitation doesn't exist in any book anywhere, which you will never be able to do because you don't even own a copy of Champions of Valor.

-Username17