Tome Series - Character Creation Thread!

[Brobdingnagian]

Sounds pretty wicked. I'd like to see what you could cook up.

[User3]

Would you believe that I already have a shadow mage base class written for Book of Gears? And it makes you partially shadowy and all shadow-magically delicious with the kind of shadow magic that we respect (dark, life draining, and amorphous and not illusionary partial-real crap).

[Cielingcat]

1175582100[/unixtime]]Would you believe that I already have a shadow mage base class written for Book of Gears? And it makes you partially shadowy and all shadow-magically delicious with the kind of shadow magic that we respect (dark, life draining, and amorphous and not illusionary partial-real crap).

I'm very glad I didn't write anything yet then.

So when does the Book of Gears/next book come out?

[RandomCasualty]

1175582100[/unixtime]]Would you believe that I already have a shadow mage base class written for Book of Gears? And it makes you partially shadowy and all shadow-magically delicious with the kind of shadow magic that we respect (dark, life draining, and amorphous and not illusionary partial-real crap).

I can't wait to see what you've done with magic item creation. That should be really interesting.

[Brobdingnagian]

And if Book of Gears isn't going to be ready for a while, could you post up the Shadow Mage or whatever you're calling it?

[Judging__Eagle]

Yeah, I'm seriously waiting to see how you guys look over item creation.

With the magic item compendium, the Blindfold of True Darkness got re-written at it's original (considered broken) 9,000 gp price.

Instead of it's 15,000 or so expected price (it might have been even more, but whatever).

While, I get called on making a 'broken' item that can cast Close Wounds (as an immediate action) 1/round for 12,000 gp or Seven League Boots (boots of Expeditious Retreat and Jump) at 7,000 gp [+30' land movement, +24 on jump checks, +10 from Jump and +12 from Exp Retreat] or Bracers of the Shadowed Sky (arrow storm, spell-trigger costs about 173.5 gp per charge; 10 charges is a good start for a low lvl ranger to get) or Amulet of Many Form (alter self at will; 18,000 gp).

[Note: the alter self ammy is broken not b/c of what it does, but b/c Alter Self as a spell is broken]

Of course, probably a bunch of the above items will be rendered illegal even under Book of Gears; but w/e.

[User3]

I thought they were fixing the crafting rules, not the magic item design rules. Or are they doing both?

[Judging__Eagle]

I thought it was both?

Fixing regular crafting would be good enough.

[Cielingcat]

Well, if Frank and K are doing a Shadow Mage, I could do a Shadow Warrior or something. You could have amorphous tentacles that drain people of life or claws made of nothing and other cool stuff.

[Brobdingnagian]

And then I'll make a Shadow Mage/Shadow Warrior Gish PRC, just for the hell of it.

[Catharz]

I thought I'd already posted this, but here is Krusk, the iconic? half-orc barbarian:

Half-orc
Barbarian 20
1:Brb 1 |1|2/0/0|Rage, Fast Healing 1, LF: Combat School
2:Brb 2 |2|3/0/0|RD +1d6, CM +5'
3:Brb 3 |3|3/1/1|Battle Hardened, LF: Great Fortitude
4:Brb 4 |4|4/1/1|RD +2d6, CM +10'
5:Brb 5 |5|4/1/1|Sidestep Hazards, Fast Healing 5
6:Brb 6 |6|5/2/2|RD +3d6, CM +10', LF: Blitz

Weapon:
Greataxe
Armor:
Adamantine breastplate

Base ability scores (SA):
Str 17+3, Con 14+2, Dex 13+1, Int 8-1, Wis 12+1, Cha 10.

Level 1 (while raging)~
Attack: Greataxe +8 = 1+3+2+2.
Damage: Greataxe 1d12+8 = 2d6+4+2+2 (Avg 14.5).
AC: 16 = 10+1+7-2.
Saves: +9 = 2+2+3+2 / +3 = 1+2 / +3 = 1+2.
DR: 4/adamantine or 3/-.
HP: 14 = 12+2.

Level 6 (while raging)~
Attack: Greataxe +14/+12 = 6+4+2+2.
Damage: Greataxe 1d12+10+3d6 = 2d6+6+2+2+3d6 (Avg 27),
plus DC 17 daze (Combat School).
Damage (Blitz): Greatsword 1d12+16+3d6 (Avg 33).
AC: 16 = 10+1+7-2.
Saves: +12 = 5+2+3+2 / +5 = 3+1+2 / 5 = 3+1+2.
DR: 11/adamantine or 5/-.
HP: 62 = 12+5d12+12+6.

A more optimal barbarian would probably use TWFing with a couple of morning stars. Even so, to say that this compares favorably with the Core Krusk is a bit of an understatement. I just wrote this up because I'm (hopefully) going to be running an adventure with some newbs, and a pre-made half-orc barbarian is about as simple as it gets.

Skills: Spot, Survival, and Intimidate?

[Catharz]

James the Moniter~
Theoretically a paragon of apathy, James is in fact manic-depressive. His languishing dispair is often interrupted with bouts of rage. What got him kicked out of his monastary, however, was a period of irrational devotion to his cause, in which he managed to convert his entire village.
He now spends his time prostheletizing about the apocalypse to those certain to be doomed, as well as demonstrating the superiority of his Kuo-Toan kung fu. He is recognzable by the strange suit he wears which allows him to live on land, as well as limiting the smell...

Kuo-toan 3/Barbarian 2/Monk 1/Moniter 9

Code: Select all

3:KT 3 \-----------------| 2| 1/1/3 |3d6[br]4:KT 3/Brb 1 |-----------| 3| 3/1/3 |3d6+1d12[br]5:KT 3/Brb 2 |-----------| 4| 4/1/3 |3d6+2d12[br]6:KT 3/Brb 2/Mnk 1 \-----| 5| 6/3/5 |3d6+2d12+1d8[br]7:KT 3/Brb 2/Mnk 1/Mon 1 | 6| 8/5/7 |3d6+2d12+2d8[br]15:KT 3/Brb 2/Mnk 1/Mon 9|14|12/9/13|3d6+2d12+10d8

Level 15 (raging)~
Attack: Flail +16/11/11, Shield bash +16/11/11, Bite +14, Slam +14.
(Add Wis, enhancement bonuses, etc).
Damage:
Flail 1d8 +2 +1d6.
Shield bash 1d6 +2 +1d6.
Bite 1d4 +2
Slam 1d8 +2
AC: 25+Wis = 10+9+Wis+3+3 (29+Wis with 'Shell').

Ability scores~
Str: meh, Dex: bah, Con: MAX, Int: feh, Wis: MAX, Cha: whatever.

Feats~
Level 1: Insightful strike.
Level 3: Two-weapon fighting.
Level 6: Elusive target.
Level 9: Juggernaut.
Level 12: Blitz.
Level 15: ?

EQ~
Armor: Still suit.
Shield: Force shield.

Fighting styles (2)~
Angry squid attack:
* Attacks stun 1 round, fortitude DC 10+0.5*HD+Wis.
Coconut octupus technique:
* Speed +30' insight.
* Movement provokes no AoOs.
Master fighting styles (3)~
Tail slaps the fisherman:
* Saves +4.
* Make an AoO against any attacker, which must be used to trip or disarm.
* Trip or bullrush attempts add the effects of a telekinetic violent thrust.
Leap from dark water:
* Teleport 60' once per round as a free action.
* Any target hit by slam is hit by targeted greater dispel.
Shell the oyster:
* Attacks overcome all DR and hardness.
* AC +4 dodge.
* Attacks stun 1 round, fortitude DC 10+0.5*HD+Wis.
Grandmaster fighting style (1)~
Tear the veil:
* Open a travel gate with a slam attack.
* Block all [teleportation] within a mile.


_One of his favorite attack forms is to open a gate to somewhere unplesant using "Tear the veil," and then use "Tail slaps the fisherman" to toss enemies in. -->If starting at high level, it's probably worth changing 'Tear' to include just the Gate and the effects of 'Tail.'
_When he really wants to tear things up with pure damage he 'shells the oyster.'

_A decent alternative fighting style would be to drop the flail and TWF with slams. That looses all the shield abilities, one point of AC, and the bite attack, but it opens up an extra ability for the monk techniques which rely on weapon use.

[Catharz]

So, how about an archer?

Logo Lox uses Blitz, Point Blank Shot, and Sniper to devastating effect with his warsling (oddly, Horde Breaker may be useful too). Important ability scores are...Dexterity!

When within 60' of his enemies but safely out of reach, he uses Blitz and PBS to add his BAB to his damage twice. Such attacks get a +3 bonus on the attack roll. Due to the nature of skiprocks, an attack will ricochet into an adjacent enemy after hitting its target.

He also threatens all foes within 60', although movement doesn't provoke an AoO. Blitz barbarians take note: this is a good guy to attack.

Once his hits are upgraded to auto-threats, the x4 critical damage really starts to shine.


If he's fighting a single target before he hits BAB 16, it might be a better bet to use darts, shuriken, or javelins and TWFing. Twice the attacks is pretty mad when you add 2xBAB to every one of them.

[Judging__Eagle]

Hmm, Blitz + Point Blank Shot + TWF + Sniper = Deathsauce? At level 9, 6 if human, much lower if fighter or human fighter.

Double your BaB derived attacks, add your BaB twice to damage rolls (but provoke an AoO), get +3 to hit within 60 feet.

Pump up only dex and then get horde breaker.

Fvcking archers; they're always good at damage.


That's some good working of the feats though.

It means that a TWF, Combat School, Blitz barbarian could pick up PBS and maybe sniper and suddenly have an attack capability that most people won't expect.

[the_taken]

It's like playing gauntlet:legends. Remember not to destroy generators so that you can kill more mooks for more XP.

[Brobdingnagian]

Archers are farmers now.

[Catharz]

Some kind of Duke of Chaos from the Elric saga type character~

Vampire Aasimar
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 19.

True Fiend 4/Jester 3/Conduit 3

Code: Select all

1:TF 1 \-----------|1|2/2/2|1d8 (8)[br]2:TF 1/Jes 1 |-----|1|2/4/2|1d8+1d6 (11.5)[br]4:TF 1/Jes 3 |-----|3|3/5/3|1d8+3d6 (18.5)[br]6:TF 1/Jes 3/Cnd 1 |3|3/5/5|1d8+4d6 (22)[br]7:TF 1/Jes 3/Cnd 3 |5|4/6/6|1d8+6d6 (29)[br]8:TF 2/Jes 3/Cnd 3 |6|5/6/6|2d8+6d6 (33.5)[br]10:TF 4/Jes 3/Cnd 3|8|6/7/7|4d8+6d6 (38)

Spheres (in order):
Heresy
Sleep
Bubbles

OR

Jester 3/Conduit 7

Code: Select all

1:Jes 1 |-----|0|0/2/0|[br]3:Jes 3 |-----|2|1/3/1|[br]4:Jes 3/Con 1 |2|1/3/3|[br]10:Jes 3/Con 7|7|3/5/6|

Spheres:
Heresy
Sleep
Seduction
Bubbles

Tell me, which should it be??? And what do you think of Vampire Paragon levels?

[Judging__Eagle]

1176232920[/unixtime]]Archers are farmers now.

Wrong

Archers have always been farmers.

"single character type game" (..sometimes called RPGs)

-Diablo 2: Amazons (only reliable ranged attacker, mass ranged targeting; made them great for boss slaying and farming for chipped gems to make uber-swords)

-Ragnarok Online: Hunters (massive damage capability + massive attack speed; made them amazing boss-hunters and made them good PvP platforms versus inexperienced players, very weak versus a priest or knight though)

-Everquest: Rangers (+others?) (kiting in various forms of somewhat level appropriate monsters)

-World of Warcraft: Hunters (hunters, only preceded by rogues/druids in terms of resource farming ability; great in PvP as well, so long as you realize that smart people will attack you and not your pet.)

Real-Time Strategy Games:

-Myth: The Fallen Lords 1 & 2 (archery units really, really saved the asses of your swordsmen and later barbarian troops)

-Total Annihiliation: Kingdoms (all the ranged units were the most effective, since you couldn't have all of your melee guys engaged at once, so if the guys in the back were ranged, then you got mroe damage onto enemy forces)

Dawn of War & Dawn of War: Dark Crusade

-Arty units can shell a location that you know will have an enemy structure (Strategic Points, Sacred Relics etc.); thus making some part of target aquisition a moot point

-Arty can also uttery mess-up an enemies fighting line and break their morale; making them really good as defensive units, as they can scatter enemy attacking forces all over the place

-Really, one to two Arty units are all that most commanders need, since you can set them to shell an area for an arbitrary amount of time, so that when you finally do attack the shelled area, it will probably be cleared of enemy forces

-Even the 'melee' races like the Orcs need to have a good number of Ranged Shoota Boyz, since you can only have so many Slugga Boyz in actual melee before the enemy is surrounded and mobbed up.

Any RTS game that had extreme-range ranged attacks:

--Total Annihilation (Nukes and Berthas/Intimidators think "10-Mile Guns"; later Vulcans/Buzzsaws, "Very fast firing 5-8 Mile Guns")
--Supreme Commander (As above, "walls" that block LOS for super-long range artillery now exists; Anti-Nuke Facilities have been carried over from Total Annihilation)




Seriously, I can't really think of a game where an 'archer' or 'ranged' character, unit or army has less advantages than one that doesn't have 'range'.

Of course, there are exceptions to the norm; like VoodooPriest's super-walker Dialbo 2 barbarian PvP set-up.

Loaded up with so many "Faster Run/Walk" charms and a maxed run/walk speed skill (he didn't use the Fenzy ability though, which is curious, but whatever) that the barbarian can outrun even the guided arrows of a maxed attack speed amazon's Buriza Do-Kyanon; allowing it to simply run past all of the arrows and then enter melee unscathed; usually killing the 'zon in a couple of whirlwinds.


Heck, I'll even give a really quick and dirty way for an D&D 3.5 Ed. archer character to deal scads of damage for pretty cheap:

1. Buy a +1 Holy Evil Outsiderbane Comp Longbow (yeah, it's a big investment, a +4 weapon); go for the +1 Evil Outsiderbane Bow and Oil's of Align Weapon for your arrows intead.

2. Buy Arrows; +1 Chaotic Outsiderbane Steel Arrows and +1 Lawful Outsiderbane Silver Arrows.

3. Enjoy a +5 to hit/damage and +6d6 in bonus damage. You're probably getting by the targets DRs of Magic, Good and Silver or Steel as well so that's full damage.

Also, since you're buying +2 arrows and you can start with a +2 bow with cheap Oil's of Align Weapon. Of course, this can easily be golfbagged to include undead and construct bane arrows; all of which ((evil) outsiders, undead, constructs) constitute the bulk a a lvl 11+'s encounters.

It also means that everyone in your party better be prepared to survive flying, ranged attack using or fast moving enemy fiends at level 11.

[RandomCasualty]

1177363902[/unixtime]]
Real-Time Strategy Games:

Most RTS games feature uber ranged units simply because they're poorly balanced and turn into single unit massing fests. If you take a well balanced game like Starcraft, ranged doesn't always dominate. And you can have really good melee forces.

In fact, against zerg, protoss common strategy was full zealots to templar/archons. Basically a melee/spellcaster combination. Zerg basically relied heavily on their melee zerglings for any strike force they might create.

Archers aren't always godly. It's very possible to balance them out.

[Crissa]

Heck, even to modern MMO games the archer is going to either be useless or godly. A Hunter in Warcraft can tag anything at a range little else can match - and then of course kill it with a speed few can also match.

The problem with this is that bows were godly - their only problem was that their mass was light; they could only hurt certain targets and at a low rate of fire. Anything else a good bowman could kill any target - for what good would a bow be that could not fell anything in a single shot?

Balancing would require units - like siege weapons, chariots, the phalanx - that the bow could not damage. But we're playing single units, so that doesn't balance!

Ranged dominates in our world, so that leads to fantasy worlds tending towards that as well.

...Of course, ranged units should be low on armor or trade penetration for mobility...

-Crissa

[User3]

Man, now I want to have our group play as Voltron somehow. That'd be a fun character creation session.

[Judging__Eagle]

1177371762[/unixtime]]

1177363902[/unixtime]]
Real-Time Strategy Games:

Most RTS games feature uber ranged units simply because they're poorly balanced and turn into single unit massing fests. If you take a well balanced game like Starcraft, ranged doesn't always dominate. And you can have really good melee forces.

In fact, against zerg, protoss common strategy was full zealots to templar/archons. Basically a melee/spellcaster combination. Zerg basically relied heavily on their melee zerglings for any strike force they might create.

Archers aren't always godly. It's very possible to balance them out.

Don't use well-balanced and starcraft in the same sentance.

Nine of the top ten players of starcraft in the world used Zerg. The one guy who used Terran was in fourth or fifth place and even he admitted that he only used terrans to prove that they were top ten worthy material to be used by a skilled player.

When you only have one of three races predominating and everyone aknowledging that one race can truly dominate, then it's not really that balanced.

Personally, I prefer games like TA and Supreme Commander; where both tactics and stratgey are critical to succeed. Starcraft is a banking/build-order game with a few tactical elements thrown in. Starcraft is not a real tactical game in the slightest; the lack of several viable offense/defense options means that everyone goes for similar setups and that trying something unorthodox is actually impossible to do due to it's limited scope.


Bleh, now we're all off topic. I'm gonna write up an NPC 'something'.

[RandomCasualty]

1177417553[/unixtime]]

Don't use well-balanced and starcraft in the same sentance.

Nine of the top ten players of starcraft in the world used Zerg. The one guy who used Terran was in fourth or fifth place and even he admitted that he only used terrans to prove that they were top ten worthy material to be used by a skilled player.

No, you're thinking of before the last balance patch. When SC first came out, yes you're right, zerg were uber. But at the last incarnation, actually all the races are represented fairly evenly.

While originally terrans were seen as a weak race, they are by far not a weak race at all anymore. In fact some people see them as the strongest. Strategy and metastrategy for that game has developed to such a heightened level that it makes other RTS games look like weak unit massing fests in comparison.

It's likely you stopped playing before staple tactics like the terran wall to mech build were even invented.

Personally, I prefer games like TA and Supreme Commander; where both tactics and stratgey are critical to succeed. Starcraft is a banking/build-order game with a few tactical elements thrown in. Starcraft is not a real tactical game in the slightest; the lack of several viable offense/defense options means that everyone goes for similar setups and that trying something unorthodox is actually impossible to do due to it's limited scope.

It may look that way from a newbie point of view, but if you watch some pro-replays you'll see that there are a wide variety of strategies you can execute.

Yes, there are standard build orders that some people follow by the book, but it's about unit counters, scouting, timing and micromanagement than just pumping a ton of units and throwing them at your foe.

Seriously, at mid to high level starcraft you need to be scouting your opponents base, you need to know what he's making, otherwise you will lose. Follow your standard build order all you want, but that's just like an opening in chess. You have to be willing to see what your opponent is doing and counter it, otherwise you get run over. No single unit massing strategy is going to win the game for you, unless you're so much better than the other guy that ti doesn't matter anyway.

[Neeek]

1177398842[/unixtime]]Man, now I want to have our group play as Voltron somehow. That'd be a fun character creation session.

Probably not. Once they form Voltron, there is only one player. Everyone else takes a back seat. It has been my experience that players strongly dislike putting their characters under someone else's power.

[MrWaeseL]

1177448581[/unixtime]]

1177398842[/unixtime]]Man, now I want to have our group play as Voltron somehow. That'd be a fun character creation session.

Probably not. Once they form Voltron, there is only one player. Everyone else takes a back seat. It has been my experience that players strongly dislike putting their characters under someone else's power.