K wrote: Allowing PCs to attune to sites is just bad all around because of these essential problems:
Since the game is still in the design phase, these problems only need to be essential if we want them to be. I'll list some possible solutions to the problems you listed. In any case, once the Pcs have found and cleared a site, they will do something with it. Whether they give it to their empire, an ally, or keep it for themselves, there must be rules for it. And many players will want to have a little magic fortress.
K wrote:...but you still have problems with sites not fitting into a person's shtick. A paladin of life and justice that rides a unicorn is not going to want to attune to the Vale of Infinite Horror, no matter what powers it has.
So the party does a Ritual of Destruction on the site. How is this more difficult than if parties couldn't attune to sites?
K wrote: 2. Big empires. Empires are a default of any fantasy setting, and there is not reason why some organization wouldn't just make sure that all sites are attuned. Even if you posit "dormant" or "hidden" sites, we have agreed that sites do one thing when active, which is spawn monsters. This means that people will know whenever a sites becomes active and there no reason why they wouldn't send an army and their own heroes to take it.
There are possibly a number of solutions to this, but first I want to address the issue of empires. Are we assuming that all power sites are ruled by powerful empires? If so, then you are right. I was under the impression that some sites were ruled by kingdoms, some by lone individuals, and everything in-between those extremes.
If sites are ruled by people other than empires, then the following could be solutions:
-Since dormant sites are in the far corners of the world, it is a possibility that it would take a long amount of time for people to find out about it.
-If there are site "tremors" of monster spawnings which occur when the site doesn't actually become active, then rulers would wait until it was known whether the site was truly active or not.
-If there is more than one empire, then that means that there is a state of warfare, or at least competition between the states. If two empires each have a dozen or so satellite sites, then that means they are guarding those sites. Each empire would be disinclined to send too large a force to take the new-found power site for fear that the second empire would send a force to take a newly-vulnerable established site from the first empire.
--As a result, some newly found sites could result in a "land rush" of picked heroes from every kingdom. I think it could be fun campaign design if a fraction (whatever fraction you like) of site explorations by the party had the backdrop of half a dozen expeditionary parties from nearby kingdoms. There could even be treaties on the site-grab which the kingdoms had agreed to beforehand.
In this way the party could take a site for their own, or failing that, come to an alliance or liege-system with a neighboring kingdom.
K wrote:3. Someone takes your site when you are not home. If we allow people to attune the site by beating its defenses or something, then we must assume that if you ever leave your site to go adventuring, someone will take it from you. Playing musical chairs with sites make may a good adventure, but as a campaign it would bore the hell out of most players (like me).
It wouldn't have to be like 'musical chairs.' As I stated previously, the site would defend itself. If the Pc's obtained the site in the first place, then that means that for the most part they are powerful enough to defend it. As an additional rule, if you are attuned to a site, you can teleport back to the site when it is under siege.
There. So now we have a new element of gameplay for the system, defending your home from invasions. If the game was entirely this way it would be unfun, but it can be nice change of pace. Additionally, it allows players to make and describe the defenses of their home/site. Some players enjoy this type of thing.
K wrote: 4. All the good sites are taken. Even if we assume that sites are hidden and sites go dormant, there are still things in the default fantasy universe that are thousands of years old and powerful, and it costs them nothing to place a few watchers on dead sites in the event they go active again. Think about Liches. They are immortal, powerful, and all about accumulating power. What would it cost them to post a few undead on a spot or even just do a monthly Scry with a crystal ball to check if there is any activity on dead sites.
True. But site 'tremors' eat their minions. And Sites are immune to scrying. Problems solved.
Also, it can be a good thing if old obscure creatures have ways of finding out if forgotten sites go active again. They can employ the Pc's. Or the Pc's could find out that The Lich of the Fetid Swamp is on the move after three hundred years. Why is he out? Sounds like an adventure. Especially since the local kingdoms have forgotten about the site and the Lich hasn't.
With regard to your points A through F, for the most part I don't have problems with them. Except as follows:
K wrote: C. If can you attune a site, it raises your power to its level. You can then raise your level and the site becomes more powerful. If you raise your level past it, you can create better versions of the same general monsters. The Cavern of Fire Crystal might be a 6th level site that just make fire giants and flame drakes, but when the Fire Lord reaches 10th level he can build red dragons and huge fire elementals too.
If the attuned person is killed, the site returns to its old level. So, an empire built on the Smouldercone might die out because after the last person of fire devil and human blood who had the will and intellect to beat a devil in a pact has died and the empire couldn't find another, and then a neighboring empire decided to wipe them out before they could or the site started to make devils who began killing the populace. Now the site makes devils and imps and fire elementals and is a no man's land of old ruins and lost treasures.
This has problems. Effectively this means that any power site of any level becomes a mantle that makes an adventuring villain significantly more powerful. Villains no longer care how powerful a power site is. This means that people will have the same amount of desire in attaining a site that is guarded by an empire, as a site guarded by a lone mid-level wizard. This makes sites extremely 'musical chairs' like. Consider the following scenario: Level 14 villain takes a level one power site and then increases his level and makes an army that rivals the other empires.
That one example in itself isn't bad, but when you consider every little site does the same thing, you are back to 3e's rise and fall of nations on a stupidly increased scale. It is even more drastic than the farmer who goes to market to find the nation overthrown multiple times like in yours and Frank's Tome. In your above example the farmer who goes to market could find half a dozen new empires, all with armies, that have sprung up.
No. A better way would be to make army building sites rare, so that people and villains must fight over them. Or they could find a long dormant site and raise an army on their own. This lets you have your above example and still preserves world stability.
There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe