Barbarians vs. Angry Fighters

[Prak]

I don't think you answered in terms that make sense to me.

I understand what it is that you have written. But that is just one flavor interpretation of this.

Now tell me why the barbarian's connection to rage doesn't manifest as fire on his body or touhou torrential water blasts?

Yeah he's not saying they can't. What he's saying is that they totally can and thats cool, but fighters don't have those things under anyone definition of being a fighter "Just by getting angry" etc...

Um. I'd, personally, be fine with fighters whipping out comet punches and fire blasts and hyper beams...

[CatharzGodfoot]

Um. I'd, personally, be fine with fighters whipping out comet punches and fire blasts and hyper beams...

I wouldn't. [img]http://psycho_k.webs.com/img/trollface_emote.png[/img]

[Prak]

yeah, but I still disproved the concept of "no one wants fighters to whip out pokemon moves"
Edit: in fact now I must write up the "poke-fighter." The only question is whether or not he should have an ability to be carried around in other peoples' pockets...

[Molochio]

As is stated by others, a barbarian's connection to rage does indeed manifest as blasts of fire or water if you are using a barbarian variant which offers such features.

Flavor interpretations aside, even if a fighter does manage to duplicate these feats, it can not and will not be simply because the fighter was angry.

I am not sure how this fundamental difference can be made any more clear.

[Judging__Eagle]

Um. I'd, personally, be fine with fighters whipping out comet punches and fire blasts and hyper beams...

I wouldn't. [img]http://psycho_k.webs.com/img/trollface_emote.png[/img]

Below level Five you wouldn't. Right?

Beyond Level 5, the Fighter has done things; like "collected a bag of exotic items; like Flying Fire Flowers" or "killed a cannibal dragon-man".

The "fighter" is basically every type of protagonist in a pulp comic book story that uses actual weapons, and carries them with them throughout the story.


All characters are Rogues
[Addendum]
Pulp-Action Comic Book Characters are Fighters

While, we can agree that Frank's statements that the bulk of characters are Rogues, this is mostly because we are thinking of characters in Films or Television. Conan sneaks around; Dick Tracy makes gather information, and sneak attacks; Film Noir characters ambush each other in offices, or museums, or docks. In general, protagonists in film/television are shown as being personable (so we can relate to them), skilled (so we are impressed by them), at least averagely physically capable (so we neither pity, nor are jealous, of them). For the most part "being good at fighting" is not how Conan the Barbarian has ever been described. Especially not the Arnold Schwarzenegger version. There were no scenes where sword play was used a lot; Film Conan killed many people using traps; and sneaking up on his enemies. Not deftly swatting aside enemy attacks, and thrusting into their cannibalistic, serpent-worshiping, innocent-sacrificing, cult-brainwashing, bodies*.

*

Yeah, the classic Conan movie enemies were a lot more evil than is emphasized in the film; the cannibalism, snake worship, blood sacrifice and brainwashing is shown at least once each, but it's very much "Banality of Evil" brand evil.

Yes, they're "bad guys", but the audience isn't usually squicked by what they do, and Conan's success is only lauded because he's the protagonist; not because of actually proficient story presentation or story telling.

This is actually a good example of the pitfalls of the "Banality of Evil". If the evil isn't obvious enough, people don't really "buy in" to the notion that the protagonists need to stop said evil.

In pulp-action comics like, Screaming Metal (Heavy Metal in the USA), the characters carry weapons of a non-concealable type often; they know how to use martial weapons, and often pick up new or exotic weapons that they've never used before; then use them to go around slashing down everyone in the room. That's not really quite Rogue behaviour. That's really more Fighter behaviour.

While they may be skilled, this can be a result of having a very high intelligence, or being of about level 5 in terms of power.

[Cynic]

It comes to mind that Elric, Jirel of Joiry, John Carter of Mars, and Allan Quatermain fall under that distinction of being somewhere between Fighter and ROgue.

All of them are trained swordsman/martial characters. Except quatermain who is most definitely more of a rogue.

The Jekyll/hyde persona is one of the prime barbarian archetypes. I don't mean the whole smart/dumb ideology. Just a hulk out syndrome. I mean the Hyde persona is still devious and smart. Shit, I used to be scared of Hyde as a kid.

David Gemmel's Driss seems to be a prime candidate for Barbarian as well.

Man, finding barbarians in fiction seems to be hard.

We could use the "you wouldn't like me when I"m mad" sorta generic mook as part of this.

So the problem of the fighter/barbarian dichotomy is that both seem to be pretty close together with one being the "cool-headed" (loose definition) and the other being the savage brute.

-We've listed the different sort of barbarians before. But just as a personal reference, here are few.

Anger Axe - The man who gets mad and who just smashes/smushes people with the axe. Trip, Tumble, dextrous actions are not in this fellow's repertoire.

Hulk SMASH - Fellow gets angry and transforms into a roid-rage maniac. While the trope is mostly about someone transforming into a brute. Both the hulk and Hyde seem to be devious. We can also include the bear warrior

Channeler - Goku/Vegeta when they pull out the Spirit bomb after being badly beaten. We'll skip the badly beaten syndrome. While i suggested it earlier, it doesn't seem plausible in rocket-tag d&d. But the channeler is also the sort we give the force blasts/elemental blasts to.

Swifty (for lack of a better name) - THe Agito character from the anime "Origins" is a nice example of this. As he gets angrier, he gets more dextrous and agile. He runs faster, jumps higher, trips and such.

---

Any other tropes I should be aware of?

[Midnight_v]

I don't think you answered in terms that make sense to me.

I understand what it is that you have written. But that is just one flavor interpretation of this.

Now tell me why the barbarian's connection to rage doesn't manifest as fire on his body or touhou torrential water blasts?

Yeah he's not saying they can't. What he's saying is that they totally can and thats cool, but fighters don't have those things under anyone definition of being a fighter "Just by getting angry" etc...

Um. I'd, personally, be fine with fighters whipping out comet punches and fire blasts and hyper beams...

yeah, but I still disproved the concept of "no one wants fighters to whip out pokemon moves"
Edit: in fact now I must write up the "poke-fighter." The only question is whether or not he should have an ability to be carried around in other peoples' pockets...

You didn't disprove shit. . . the key point of that is:

"Just by getting angry" etc

Flavor interpretations aside, even if a fighter does manage to duplicate these feats, it can not and will not be simply because the fighter was angry.

I am not sure how this fundamental difference can be made any more clear.

Some nice reading comprehension you got there, who's awesome? You are.

The fighters would be throwing whatever the fuck magic attacks at you via... "awesome fighting ability" etc, never really "just by virtue of their anger" which is totally what barbs to.

Especially not the Arnold Schwarzenegger version. There were no scenes where sword play was used a lot; Film Conan killed many people using traps; and sneaking up on his enemies. Not deftly swatting aside enemy attacks, and thrusting into their cannibalistic, serpent-worshiping, innocent-sacrificing, cult-brainwashing, bodies*.

Also... and I hate to be long winded but there's this whole long montage in "The barbarian" i.e. the good one, where he spends hundreds of fights using various weapons as a pit fighter and then gets shipped off to study as under the "warmasters of the east". etc. So yeah... theres a bit of reference for him using sword play as well.

[Prak]

Yeah, I guess I misread. The fighter totally should be able to whip out hours of flame or torrents of water, or sprays of poison because he went and learned the the esoteric technics of master Red Ash, or whatever