Video Games

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:46 am

Stahlseele wrote:The closest thing they got to attribute changes through game mechanics was through the back door of perks increasing certain stats.

This is sort of that, because you level up, get one perk per level, and can spend it on stat. But I liked when other stats where better (except the every stat under 5 is now 5 stat, that was a great perk) so you were not actually encouraged to do so.

But in this one, you will probably reach a point, between level 40-90 where absolutely nothing you do with your points is worth doing as compared to increasing stats to unlock new perks. I don't like that, I feel like you shouldn't be expected to be a 10 for all stat character no matter how late game you go.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:58 am

You certainly won't need it i suspect.
You can do just fine with being a good shot and a smartass usually in fallout.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:09 am

Stahlseele wrote:You certainly won't need it i suspect.
You can do just fine with being a good shot and a smartass usually in fallout.

You don't need anything, but 1) You can't be a smartass in this fallout because dialogue is now shit, 2) at a certain point, the perks you could get don't make you any better at anything you care about, but unlocking new perks would. Like endurance, everything in Endurance is great for every character. To a lesser extent, mostly the same for Int. At a certain point you would have to be deliberately crippling yourself to not max out Tier 3-4 stats just for better perk access.

If you play long enough, you are going to be a 10 all stats character, or you are deliberately refusing to make intelligent decisions (or even level at all) just to avoid doing that.

Archmage Joda · Post by **Archmage Joda** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:38 am

Here's my question about stat allocation in fallout 4: what do I want to have a lot of early on to be an unarmed badass and punch everything that threatens me to death, as that tends to be my preferred fallout playstyle, and I rather enjoyed it in fallout 3?

Hadanelith · Post by **Hadanelith** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:50 am

To be quite clear: I am not pissing and moaning about the number of stat points because 'tradition'. I'm bitching because I can't build a starting character with access to all of the fairly simple perks I want, because Bethesda has fucked character progression sideways in FO4. If skills were still a thing, I wouldn't really give a rat's ass about the number of stat points, because I'd pump my speech skill, and dump Cha (you know, like the person I actually am. ROLEPLAYING, dammit). As it stands, however, to seriously interact with the settlement minigame, a Cha of 6 is flat out required. No if's, and's, or but's. Further, Cha is now the sole determiner for speech checks, so I must pump it at least some so I can convince anyone of anything (you know, the reason I care about Fallout: story, quests, plot. I'm not really in this for the shooting; the new Call of Duty just came out, and I guaran-goddamn-tee it has better gunplay). Cha is required at high levels for me to interact with portions of the story. Which is fine; I can accept somewhat lower stats in other areas to get some Cha. No biggie.
But then I need Int so I can play with Energy Weapons (which I will, because seriously, lasers). And I need Str for...making armor? And Agi for sneaking (this doesn't bother me, I always played with very high Agi so I'd have enough AP). And Per for...lockpicking? Kay, whatever. But now I've hit a wall. I'm out of points. And my End and Luck are at 1.
So my options are to spend about a dozen levels getting nothing but stat points (which is quite boring), or just have a seriously squishy character that rarely gets crits (pro-tip: lasers exist for crit-fishing, at least in previous games; I don't really see this changing here). And still needing one dead level anyway, just so I can raise my Cha once to get the perk needed for settlements to matter.
This is a game that has some 230 (real) perks. You get a perk point a level. Why the fuck would I want to spend entire levels on just raising my stats in fairly minor ways, just to get access to new perks? It's never going to happen that I'll finish getting all the perks I have available by default. Why spend levels primarily on perk *access* instead of actual *perks*? Fuck that noise.
So yeah, I'm going to grant myself 12 stat points via the console. Because the old number would let me build a nice, balanced character who specializes in the kind of gameplay I want and enjoy, and the new number leaves that character either a pathetically squishy, unlucky ninja, or an idiot who's spent levels on stat points instead of even mildly interesting stuff.
And as soon as the Creation Kit is released (assuming I haven't given up and wandered back to New Vegas in disgust), I'm going to release my first mod: editing the character creation script to give you stats at the start, so I don't need the damn console.

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:26 am

Kaelik wrote:Stop being this guy Aryxbez.

I mean, you are doing a slightly different version, but you are basically this guy. Some people want to make certain characters, especially in a game in a universe they have played multiple characters before. The inability to make those characters is a perfectly valid complaint, and since the benefits provided by the game denying them the ability to play characters they played in the past is . . . nothing at all. It is a reasonable complaint.

As I've said before, in the end, if they want to do 40 pt buy, max stats, random stats any other examples, then it's whatever. These games give the power of modding to play way to our preference where the mechanics fail. Then why have I been arguing about this? Because from what was first said in the first place by others seemed ill-informed knee-jerk reactions because they changed the stat arrays. Disregarding what the new values may mean, 5 in Fallout 4 very well does not mean the same as it did in past titles, even 3 may be considered the "average" now in terms of competence (despite 5 is avg of 10 obviously).

Finally, as to whether or not its failing to allow them to make the characters they want we'd have to see after proper allocation of the stats, perks to finalize these conclusions.

Anyway, these points are/have been refined by the original people I quoted, so this notion I imagine should be solved.

Chamomile wrote:That doesn't mean it's enough to make the character I want to play. So yes, your accusations were and are baseless.

Because you say it is, dost not make it so. At this juncture I don't believe you've said what kind of character you want to play, so I'm unsure there. Obviously at this point you could just spitefully say something like "that does everything", but I'll trust its a certain one in mind that would have you agree with that conclusion in the first place.

Archmage Joda wrote:Here's my question about stat allocation in fallout 4: what do I want to have a lot of early on to be an unarmed badass and punch everything that threatens me to death, as that tends to be my preferred fallout playstyle, and I rather enjoyed it in fallout 3?

Looking over the options, if you want just pure Unarmed Meleeing, in general I know you'll want High Agility, likely Luck just for the crit-fishing, and Str for obvious. So SPECIAL:6,1,4,3,1,7,6. Very narrow PC I know, Str 6 help carry stuff I considered 9, but w/Agi's "Ninja" probably not wanting to stay still, Perception beyond lockpicking who cares for this PC, Endurance might be bit low but enough for chems to up the BA-ness, & Adam-Skel down the road is worthwhile. Cha 3 is for Lone Wanderer to complete the BA-puncher, otherwise eh. Int is kinda nice, but if don't care bout guns & computers then pass, Agility for all the obvious stealth, 5-7 get ya more potential AP, bonuses when moving, and Ninja for super-stealth murdering. Luck 6 we want for awesome critting, and seems to get better from there.

If that doesn't look ideal to you, feel free to look what already existing Fallout 4 character builders and play with that to get what you want.

Hadanelith, looking over what ye indicated it looked like SPECIAL: 3,4,1,6,6,7,1. Possibly if ye do stealth won't need HP "too" much ideally, ye don't have to have Str 3 or Per 4 off the bat, as could just level up into them (former moreso as loot whatever for few levels, lockpicking could be early enough you'll be fine without it). Settlements is also something I imagine you'd want to do once gotten a few levels on your belt, with some actual resources, opposed to likely crashing & burning if doing it too early as possibly be too weak to defend your own settlements, or keep it happy. So that's another thing could level into after other vital stuff taken care of. As said above, getting Ninja early could mean won't be hit as much if it means you're one-shotting most foes (or nearly so). Lastly, Luck could be upped by taking from Str Per, or Cha if desired, but otherwise perhaps just a sacrifice that'll have to be accepted.

So given what I've said, maybe SPECIAL: 1,4,4,5,6,7,1 ? Can still up the crap you want immediately, only spend few levels into crap do down the road (Cha 6 perk truly takes off at 12th level anyway).

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:47 pm

Aryxbez wrote:Finally, as to whether or not its failing to allow them to make the characters they want we'd have to see after proper allocation of the stats, perks to finalize these conclusions.

We've known the whole perk tree for a week. So yes, we do know they can't make the character they want to make.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:36 pm

Well, I rarelly replay games so it's Cheat Engine time!

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:45 pm

If it's still the old gamebryo engine, then the old console commands probably still work.
so why bother with the cheat engine at all?
most engines nowadays obfuscate the in game numbers in the RAM anyway right?

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:54 pm

Stahlseele wrote:If it's still the old gamebryo engine, then the old console commands probably still work.

If you're referring to Fallout 4, then it won't be using Gamebryo, it'll be using the same in-house engine that Bethesda created for Skyrim.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:23 pm

I thought that is the same engine they used for Fallout 3 / NV?
Learn something new every day.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:47 pm

Bethesda stopped using Gamebryo after F3/NV, because they felt it was becoming outdated.. They now use Creation Engine, which they built.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:59 pm

Aah nice to know O.o
Also, this would mean that getting mods should be fast and easy i guess?

Blicero · Post by **Blicero** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:38 pm

As a minor clarification, according to this dude, Creation is heavily based on Gamebryo.
http://peter.corrosivetruths.org/2011/1 ... -gamebryo/

From this I’m going to conclude that Skyrim in fact does use Gamebryo code, I’m going to say Skyrim’s Creation is based on Gamebryo, with large sections rewritten.

Hadanelith · Post by **Hadanelith** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:08 pm

Can confirm, Creation Engine is Gamebryo with a new coat of paint. Modders figured this out some time ago - there are bugs and quirks that are still around in Skyrim that go back to Oblivion (at least, they may go back to Morrowind, but I know fuck all about that one). And the same workarounds work, the exact same way. And we ask Beth to fix it. Again. And are ignored. Again.
This is beginning to feel like something of an abusive relationship...

Aryxbez: did you even read what I wrote? I am NOT FUCKING LEVELING MY STATS WITH LEVEL UPS FOR PERK ACCESS. Period. That is bullshit, and I fucking REFUSE. I don't need your condescending advice about my character build, either. I have made it clear exactly how I feel about the system and what I plan to do, so kindly step off.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:35 pm

Keep an eye on his clipboard.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:22 am

The process of installing Fallout 4 went so smoothly for me that I've beaten the fourth mission of Legacy Of The Void.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:27 pm

Oh yeh, that's out now, isn't it?

What kinda rig would I need to play it on the PC? And how expensive would it be?

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:37 pm

If you don't really need to play it now, you can wait for it to be patched, released in an edition with all DLC and sold cheap in a sale. By then, the computer needed to play it will be cheaper, and you'll be able to benefit from all the cool mods.

That's probably what I'll do anyway.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:08 pm

Shrapnel wrote:Oh yeh, that's out now, isn't it?

What kinda rig would I need to play it on the PC? And how expensive would it be?

It shouldn't be too expensive to get up to spec. I say this because while it's kinda crappy I can get it to run on an old phenom 2 dual core and an r9 270x. The biggest problem so far is some dopey ass bullshit where the game won't start if I change graphics settings in the launcher, which makes it hard to tell if tweaking things further would help. Fucking Bethesda. Figured out a workaround. Tweaking didn't help that much, but whatever, still confident you'd be fine with something as cheap as an Athlon x4 and a decent video card.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:38 am

Fallout 4 Dialogue just fucked me in the ass. I had been playing a character who didn't tell anyone about my son, on the theory that if I never told anyone, the people who kidnapped him wouldn't know I was looking. Obviously at some point the game was going to make me talk about him to someone to set up the actual missions, because it is stupid, and you can't look for someone without specifically telling someone the story of your life, but so far I wasn't even close to that point. I told people when I entered Diamond City to fuck off, I've never even said I was looking for someone.

So I went to talk to the reporter, because sidequest, and after you agree to an interview, I sarcastically mock her in every answer, and then she says "You are looking for someone, who are you looking for?" There are four choices:

1) Why do you care? She says "this paper cares about people who are missing." And then you are back at the same menu.
2) No one. She says "Yes you are." And you are back at the same menu.
3) A Family Member.
4) Shaun.

So basically I know have to tell the nosy reporter about my kid so she can publish it in a newspaper, even though she used fucking telepathy to know I'm looking for someone in the first place, and now I have to... I don't know, quit and load autosave? Because it literally won't let me leave the conversation until I let her publish something that completely destroys my character. Because I can't leave a conversation, and I can't tell her to fuck off.

So for those who encounter a similar problem, if you disable dialogue cam, you can walk out of conversations.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:05 pm

Piper is incredibly annoying, and immortal to make it worse >_< At least in New Vegas I could kill every NPC I don't like.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:29 pm

Speaking of annoying characters, Legacy Of The Void has a new Protoss lady who spends over half the game bitching about everything you do before she actually makes any productive contribution whatsoever. She's basically your racist grandma and takes time out of insulting you and your allies to say Adun was a pansy who should have manned up and committed genocide.

Thankfully, when she finally does something useful it's massively helpful; she feeds you Amon's battle plan and how to disrupt it

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:55 am

Okay, Legacy Of The Void has a pretty cool ending.

So you unite the Protoss, attack Amon on Aiur, destroy his physical body, then have an encore of the final Wings Of Liberty mission, except with some allies from the non-Aiur subfactions but no energy wave and with the subverted Golden Armada standing in for the special attack waves, to banish Amon to the Void, trapping him there for eons before he could return again...

...Then Kerrigan says fuck that, I'm tearing a hole in the universe to turn into a god and murder him. Who's with me?

The game caps off with three missions where you play Artanis, then Raynor, then Ascendant Kerrigan, while the two you aren't playing are also on the map and helping you out.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:38 pm

Alright, Legacy Of The Void opinions:

Mechanically, it naturally follows a fairly similar setup to the previous two. This time, instead of doing unit upgrades you choose units from the various subfactions to fill slots. For instance, the capital ship slot can be filled with carriers, tempests, or a mothership. You start out with two choices when you first get the unit and unlock a third by completing missions, and can swap at will. The research analogue this time is ship systems, with a resource you can redistribute between various passive bonuses and activated abilities feeding off a global energy bar, where you get better versions by allocating more of the resource (eg, one teleports down a pylon anywhere you can see and can be replaced with either a brief massive production speed boost to a building or teleporting down a pylon and also four dudes).

Story: HERE THERE BE RETCONS

The Xel'Naga seed universes with life, then go and nap until two races, the pure of essence and pure of form (Zerg and Protoss this time around) show up, and proceed to ascend them to become new Xel'Naga.

Turns out Amon is the only Xel'Naga the Protoss ever met and is responsible for the creation of the Khala. So he's actually a nice guy? No. He is the biggest asshole in the universe. Then the Xel'Naga noticed something was strange, woke up, and went to find out what Amon was up to. Amon then had the Overmind provide a demonstration of what he was up to, but the Xel'Naga managed to destroy his physical body before the Swarm overran all of them.

Cut way the hell forward; the Protoss have come to reclaim Aiur and Zeratul tells them not to because it's a distraction from the fight with Amon, but is soundly ignored. Turns out he was completely wrong and Amon is actually on Aiur and exploits the Khala to seize control of the entire Golden Armada except for the Dark Templar and a handful of recipients of field neurosurgery.

So the subfactions are Aiur Protoss (there was an army in stasis, who get their Khala connection cut), Dark Templar, Purifiers (robotic imitations of dead Templar, led by Fenix) and the Tal'Darim, who apparently are actually a bunch of minions of Amon who got smuggled off Aiur and have been hiding and hijacking warships while running a brutal, might-makes-right cult on Amon's promises of making them into Hybrid, which is impossible. For some inexplicable reason, despite being Amon cultists, they apparently also ritually sever their Khala connection, so he can't possess them.