aWoD: Continued

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Username17
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Post by Username17 »

Huh. I could do 10 PP + 3 x Potency. A lot of powers would be pretty expensive at that point (Object of Envy: 7 PP). Anyway, another section from Running the Game:


[ur]

Advancing Goals
Ultimately, in every situation, everyone does what they want to do.

The World of Darkness has pretty much everything in it that our world does, plus several additional planets of essentially equal size full of strange and poorly explored places of mystery. So it is entirely reasonable to have players who simply want to play aWoD like a four planet sized sandbox. This can be a rewarding experience, but you should take care to make sure that players have some direction so that the game doesn't end up with the characters simply whiling away their immortality in a booth at Der Wafflehouse wondering what all is going on in the world. When the game direction is player driven in this manner, the core impetus comes not from antagonists or world events but from the different goals that the player characters have.

These goal driven games require a delicate negotiation before they even begin, because if the characters have goals that are not compatible or at odds then the game can quickly devolve into a “Let's go this way!” argument or worse: actual in-party combat. That's pretty much the end of the game, and is thus only suited to games of pre-defined limited length for which the end of the game is pretty much already a foregone conclusion.

So it falls to the storyteller to dangle some plot hooks that player characters might jump on. But it also falls on the storyteller and the players to make sure that the goals set by the different characters can coexist in the same coterie and work towards the completion of the same stories. Directly antagonistic goals being advanced by different characters may sound like a cool source of in-game tension and roleplaying, but it actually just sucks. In order to keep things from falling apart into recrimination immediately, the characters all have to be constantly distracted by “bigger problems” like threats to the world and shit, and that basically means that the characters never get to meaningfully interact with their character goals and the entire chronicle is frustratingly on rails the entire time. Fuck that. Players have a mandate to discuss their character's goals with the other players before the chronicles even begin, and even to make adjustments if necessary to make sure that unity within the coterie remains a possibility.

It is important that players realize that they do not have the “right” to play any character concept that they want. They have a right and a responsibility to play a character who is capable of being involved n the stories that the other characters are participating in. Characters who don't want to do interesting things, who want to be alone, or who simply do not want to do the things that the other characters want to do are not acceptable character concepts. But also remember that this is a cooperative storytelling game, and that an incompatibility between two players' character concepts is not a problem of only one of the players. The players should reconcile their characters together so there is a reason that they would be involved in stories together. Sometimes this can be as simply as one of the players choosing to play a different character; but most of the time it involves both players compromising their characters somewhat.

For very short games it can be OK to have characters of wildly different ideologies thrown together by circumstances and a shared need for survival. Many haunted house movies rely on this conceit as do some seriously excellent pieces of storytelling like the movie Lifeboat. But it is important to note that these situations inherently have an end. Once the PCs have defeated the dream assassin stalking them all or escaped from the mindtrap manor or whatever, it rather stretches believability for them to not go their separate ways. Villain/hero teamups can make great stories, but rarely make any sense as a series.

Accumulating Power
In 2009, the mayor of Prague 5 gave his mistress a seat on the European Parliament as a romantic gift, putting to shame any gift you or I will ever give to any woman. Diamonds are friendly and all, but nothing replaces Power.

There is a manner of looking at things where everything is just a means to an end. And to that extent, everything is measurable as to how many ends it can deliver. And the units of that measure are Power. Some people desire power because they have lost sight of the importance of their original goals: spending long periods making concessions to achieve the power to achieve their dreams has burnt out any passion they had for anything but the empty accumulation of power for as long as they live. But for others, the gaining of power is an entirely reasoned goal based in their inherent uncertainty of what needs the future will have and the certainty that greater power to respond to the future must be a good thing. Still others desire specific or general powers for no other reason than that power is fucking awesome. While the villain driven by an unexamined goal to accumulate more power at any cost until the cost of sanity and self are long paid is indeed a reality, there is nothing inherent about the goal of power that leaves anyone any less sane.

Power comes to our world in many forms, and in the World of Darkness it comes in several additional ones. Gaining resources of any kind can be thought of as power, as can status in any group or any attributes or disciplines. The game system being what it is, the character will be rewarded with some kind of power no matter what stories they participate in. And while that fact can be enough to get the player involved in practically any story, technically the character doesn't know that. The character should probably be uninterested in any potential adventures that don't seem like they have any payoff.

However, it is important to note that actually very few missions that aWoD characters would be offered are devoid of obvious payment in power. Anytime a character does something that other people want them to do, they are doing a favor. And doing a favor for someone else is a lot like lending them money. It makes them owe you favors in return. It gives you power over them, it gives you... power. So while a character motivated wholly or mostly by power can be expected to be kind a dick about taking on individual tasks, it's not like they won't do it.

Changing the World
That would look better over there.

Everybody has ideas on how to change the world for the better. What constitutes “better” for these purposes is incredibly varied. Maybe they want to change the economic or political structures of the mortal or supernatural societies they are immersed in. Maybe they want to change physical realities or fight wars against the Zombie uprisings to conclusion. Whatever their goals, a goal driven character can generate their own missions based on who their opponents and allies are. This can be a major time saver for the storyteller, because the goal driven character will simply create plot hooks out of nothing at all. It can also be a major headache for the storyteller at times when they drop carefully constructed plot hooks in favor of running off GTA style. Without keeping the goals of a goal oriented character in mind, the storyteller may be forced to “think fast” and run the game by top-of-head or seat-of-pants fairly often.

Change oriented characters are inherently resistant to going on a lot of missions. They won't go on missions that appear to hurt their cause or benefit their enemies. They simply will not do them. And that's a problem if you have multiple goal-driven characters in a team. Incompatible goals between players at the table will make the game grind to a halt. It is important to remember that it is the responsibility of the players to make sure their character's goals do not place an undue burden on the other characters.

Fame and Acknowledgement by Strangers
Everyone likes doctors, but they aren't famous.

Being recognized is considered by some to be “creepy” or even an attack on their person. Fame is not for everyone. And yet, for many people it's virtually the only thing that matters. People will eat bugs for less money than they make at their job just to get on TV being visibly upset. Fame, even stupid fame, is a powerful draw. If you're reading this at any point close to its original publication date, you probably know who Paris Hilton is. And you probably also realize that there are people who would literally kill someone to get the recognition she has as of this writing. Even though most people have a negative opinion of her. In fact, because most people have a negative opinion of her – it means that most people have an opinion about her at all. And that's something the vast majority of people live and die without ever achieving. There is no such thing as bad publicity.

Fame driven characters are well likely to jump on any story hook you dangle in front of them, because accomplishing “stuff” is perhaps one of the best ways to get fame. Especially if they're even a little bit concerned about the relative positivity of their fame. The main struggle is not as much to get them to go on missions, but to get them to drop them afterward. Asking the character to walk away from publishing their successes in full to keep the Masquerade and their own safety is much more of a struggle than getting them to go explore a haunted mansion or take on a wicked Troll in the first place.

And you'd think that the pull between people who want a life of quiet privacy and the people who want to be a known face would tear the game in half. And in some cases, you'd be right. It's seriously a strain on the group if some characters want fame and others do not. Not every character wants to solve supernatural mysteries while playing in a rock band. Josie and the Pussycats is not for everyone. But it doesn't have to tank the story. Indeed, having a character who wants to take credit for everything can actually be a boon to the characters who want to be left alone. Having a preening camwhore on the team is a godsend for the team Nosferatu who wants to keep their very existence a secret.

Hedonism
Honestly, I have rhythm, I have music, who could ask for anything more?

Some characters just want to have fun. Once you live forever, what's left to aspire to but to dress in frilly shirts and practice your bored expressions? On a more serious note, a lot of people put “self actualization” or something like it at the top of their hierarchy of needs. And when you can get anyone to do pretty much anything with fucking mind control, it's not like fulfilling your lesser needs is really all that hard. So pure hedonism makes a lot of sense under the circumstances. That being said, hedonism rarely actually entails spending all your days in an opium fog while fondling the breasts of prostitutes or mind-controlled cheerleaders. Sure, that's one of the roads it can follow, but most flavors of hedonism seek out variety. And that's important for having actual stories to tell.

A hedonistic character can actually make a very reasonable addition to any team, because hanging out with friends and having exciting adventures is a good start towards having good stories to tell to attract the attention of any mind-controlled cheerleaders you happen to meet in an opium den. Such characters are very likely to just say “fuck it” and follow up on whatever plot hook interests the rest of the group.

As a storyteller it is important to remember that while a hedonistic character offers little resistance to jumping into an adventure, they also aren't very invested in seeing them to completion. If things get too shitty, they'll leave. And that's not the player being a douche and sabotaging “your” story, that's entirely understandable from the perspective of their character. If they find themselves in a no-win situation or everyone in town suddenly wants to kill them or whatever, they're going to advocate for grabbing a bus ticket out of town. It's important therefore to remember that laying it on too thick does not constitute a motivation for characters motivated by “yucks” to complete the adventure at any cost. As a storyteller, you have to temper threats with carrots. They are not going to respond to Chicago becoming far too dangerous for them to stay by staying.

For the other players, it is similarly important to not put too heavy a burden on such a character. While they are going along with whatever the other characters want to do, this should not be taken as a license to roll all over them. They don't put up much resistance to helping other characters with their goals because they are not heavily invested in doing one thing or the other, but that equally means that they are not heavily invested in accomplishing the other character's goals either. The number one imposition that a hedonistic character is unlikely to accept is being sidelined. They are here to do stuff, so if you ask them to sit out while your character does stuff alone they will wander off and find adventure of their own. It's easy to think that these players are being disruptive, but in many cases they are simply responding rationally and in-character to abandonment.

Recognition of your Peers
The worst prison is not the one where the other inmates rape you, it's the one where there are no other inmates.

Friendship, acceptance, and status within one's peer group is a major motivating factor for all but the most anti-social of humans. And supernatural creatures rarely escape that particular need. Yet, supernatural creatures are inherently relegated to the status of “the other” in many ways by their tremendously different physical and mystical characteristics. From the standpoint of the supernatural creature, perhaps the bitterest aspect of their emergence from the world of humanity is the loss of all so many hard-won relationships in the mortal world. Even though they may now be able to control minds and rip a car door off its hinges, in the rat race of life they are truly back to square one. It is entirely fitting thus for a character to make as their goal the accumulation of accolades from their peers.

Who counts as one's “peers” is an entirely arbitrary, and deeply personal, concern at the best of times. And it is a very strange question to ask of supernatural creatures because they lack many of the commonalties that might seem to link humanity’s state one to another. But in a general sense, most supernatural creatures recognize other supernatural creatures as being their “peers,” a decision that relegates their options for socialization to a number that is limited beyond what mortal humans have had to contend with for tens of thousands of years. And so it is that this goal frequently amounts to little more than “I'm going to go wherever my coterie goes and make sure to get invited to all their parties.” But for the more ambitious it often entails garnering status within their cult and covenant.

In any case, the goal is most effectively actualized by going places and doing “stuff,” which means that they should be fairly amenable to altering their plans to include the goals of other characters.

Saving People
So let the trumpet players play. Because I am on the way!

Being the hero is oftentimes reward enough to be an agenda worth pursuing. And considering that people tend to like heroes and shower them with favors (both material and sexual), it is by no means an “irrational” life goal. And there is lots of heroing to do in the World of Darkness. There is a lot of crime, people frequently can't trust the police, and there are secret magical threats that could hurt or kill many people. Trying to save people involves asking big questions. For example, how do you reconcile trying to save people when you or your allies may in fact periodically eat people. It's an answerable question, but it's one you have to ask.

Believe it or not, some of the most effective heroes in the World of Darkness don't have a lot of taboos with regards to hurting people, killing fools, and generally being a dick. If you were trying to make some sort larger point about how it's never OK to bash someone's head open and eat their delicious brains, you wouldn't even be a vampire. You'd go public, hope that humanity would win the immediate war with the supernaturals, and figure it would all be OK at some point. But since you're not doing that (as defined by the fact that you're still playing the game), you're puling some sort of justification based on the fact that currently the only known ways to actually end Zombie uprisings or meaningfully stop Pod invasions are magic based. So if humanity goes to war with the supernaturals and wins (already at horrendous cost), it also pretty much loses, because the Z-War starts up shortly after that, and there's no guarantees that any humans will survive. So being a hero in aWoD pretty much means that you've resigned yourself to keeping humans in the dark about actual cannibalistic monsters in their midst to forestall even bigger problems should those beasts be destroyed en masse.

So there we have it: you're a hero in aWoD and nonetheless you're spending a certain amount of your time covering up brutal monstrous bastards who are actual monsters. That's a difficult head space for a lot of people to get into, but it's probably best to think of Angel or Men In Black. You fight monsters that overstep the lines, but you seriously have monsters on your team. And you help those monsters who aren't going over the line – it encourages them to stay that way.

Characters uninterested in the accolades of saving damsels in distress can oftentimes be persuaded to join in nevertheless. At the big scale it's simply a no-brainer: when Demons want to destroy the world, that is where you keep all your stuff. But even on the small scale there's the fact that threats to human safety are frequently threats to the Masquerade (and thus to the very existence of supernatural society). And not a few acts of heroism get rewards. And rewards are a lot like wages except that no one expects them to be taxed, which is good news for anyone living under society's radar.

While a heroic motivation may seem somewhat uncharacteristic for the genre, it's really not. Not only is it factually true that the heroic motivation is the most common motivation of protagonists in source material, but it's also interestingly true that it is the most common motivation of people playing in World of Darkness games. Players don't actually get any real power or wealth from the successes of their characters, so it is very understandable when players want to play adventurous and selfless characters – telling a good story and saving the day are as much reward as the player ever gets.
  • A Special Note on “Super Heroes”
    World of Darkness source material includes Comic Book Superheroes. Most notably is Blade, but let us not forget that the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is a comic as well, or that much of our present day lore on vampires, zombies, and demons comes from the pages of Batman. The superheroic adventure structure is thus familiar territory for an aWoD game, and superheroic storytelling tropes are familiar territory for aWoD characters and situations. Episodically saving the town/country/planet from the threat of the week or doggedly hunting down the monster of the week is perfectly acceptable as a campaign goal.

    It might seem like the players would have to be part of a “heroic” organization like the Stellar Oracles to undergo such a campaign arc, but that's completely not the case. The super hero plotline is well preserved in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (where the Tremere or The Black Hand could easily stand in for the Watcher's Council), Angel (you can use The Hollow Ones or The Giovanni as fifth season Wolfram & Heart), and Hellboy (you can use the Storm Lords or Glass Walkers as The Agency).
The one place where heroism really falls apart is if one or more players choose to play characters who cannot be reconciled with heroism. This can totally happen, as there is literally nothing in a Vampire's job description that prevents them from being a serial rapist or cannibal or whatever – indeed it takes a fair amount of work on their part to not do that. A fair amount of work that protagonists in stories are very likely to put in, but there are players who don't want to. If one player wants to be a hero and another wants to explore the “dark side” you seriously should not run the campaign at all. It will not go well, and you should save yourself some grief and have one or both players play something else.

Wealth and Material Comfort
...but your blood won't pay my bills / I need money / that's what I want.

Mortal society drives us ever faster along the hedonistic treadmill by ever dangling new niceties, new conveniences, and new shows of conspicuous consumption for one to take part in. And the supernatural creatures of the world are not immune to those motivations. Whether from a fear of not having enough pie (as eloquently and disturbingly described by Scarlet O'hara), a desire to roll around in pie as an exercise of pure id (as demonstrated time and time again by Cookie Monster), a competitive urge to simply have more pie than potential rivals (see almost any antagonist in a Disney venture), or merely the thrill of achievement (Remy from Ratatouille), getting pie is a powerful motivator. Perhaps the most useful factor of this set of character motivations is that it is easily judged and easily incorporated into other other goals.

More is rather trivially compared with less, so it is generally rather obvious and easy to predict when a character's actions will be in accordance with the overall goal of getting a Mercedes full of cheerleaders. This means that the storyteller can easily throw a bone to the character to get them interested in a plot hook (just append “and there's a reward” to any storyline). And perhaps more importantly still, it means that the other players can rather easily make concessions to such a character's motivations when they are crafting player-generated plots. All they have to do is add “Step Three: Profit” or “And you can do whatever you want with your share” to whatever the plan was going to be and the wealth-motivated character is “in.”
Username17
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Post by Username17 »

Political Aspirations
You aren't the boss of me.

It has often been said that the lower the stakes, the more vicious the fighting. And there is an element of truth to that declaration. And to an extent it should come as no special surprise that despite (or perhaps because) of the very small numbers of supernatural creatures, the amount of effort that is put into jockeying for position in supernatural society is very high. City “governments” usually only command a couple of hundred kindred creatures, but the amount of power wielded by these organizations is often pretty intense. Rising to higher positions in supernatural society will often cause you to automatically own (or at least, be able to give orders to) substantial holdings in the mortal world. Previous holders of the office have frequently bound corporations, city officials, and criminal groups to themselves, and not a small amount of that transfers to the next creature occupying the comfy chair. So to an extent, it's totally understandable. There may only be 2000 supernaturals running the government in Metropolitan Paris, and yes that's a number suspiciously close to the number of kids that attended your highschool, but the Revolutionary Committee of the Carthians there is a lot more powerful and a lot more coveted than seats on your highschool's student government. There are certain similarities in campaigning styles (in that you can plausibly take the time to get to know everyone in the peer group), but any of the Revolutionary Committee members get a special cell phone that lets them connect directly to the chief of police of Paris.

In the whole world, there are roughly seven hundred thousand of the “playable” supernaturals in it. And that is roughly 1 per ten thousand humans, a total that has remained roughly constant throughout history. Humanity has experienced a tremendous population boom even as birth rates have fallen in the last 200 years or so. The industrial age has done wonders for the mortality rate. At the same time, the major covenants have achieved an uneasy – but functional peace. And while birth/creation rates of supernaturals have not slowed (quite the opposite), mortality rates have fallen among the kindred to an amazing extent. Not a few supernatural scholars find these trends frightening, and are advocating that supernatural society will have to return to a state of war or move full-scale to colonize the other worlds. Populations are very different in the other worlds, the Dark Reflection seems to hold just two hundred million souls, and most of them are the damned and the Mirror Goblins. Populations in the Dreamlands are even lower, with Maya containing just a few tens of thousands – though no one really knows how many Giant Animals or Evil Plants lurk in that ghastly wilderness. The Gloom is a whole different thing altogether, having a population that is measurable in the tens of billions. Were it not for the fact that the vast majority of those creatures are Wisps mumbling in long forgotten languages who scarcely remember their own name, Mictlan would be an even bigger threat then it already is. Still, perhaps the most disturbing thing about Mictlan is that with the number of people who have died, the population is not several times larger than it is.

Distribution of supernaturals is substantially and predictably different from distribution of mortal humans. There appear to be two major directions of migration for supernaturals: towards the largest and wealthiest of the cities and towards the actual wilderness. Roughly 80% of supernaturals on Earth fall into one category or the other (and are roughly evenly split between those two extremes). Similarly, a fair number of supernaturals are drawn towards the most wealthy nations as well as the nations of low population density. Canada is probably the most overpopulated, and has substantially more supernaturals than you would expect given its meager population of 33 million. Thousands of lycanthropes and leviathans roam the Northern wilderness, far from the eyes of civilization. On the flip side, the most underpopulated nation (in terms of supernaturals relative to humans) is India. Just as brain drain sends doctors and computer programmers out of Chennai and into Western and Middle Eastern countries, fish people and witches who can use their powers to go to the UK (or wherever) frequently do.

What this means is that if you're considering a moderate and normally populated country like Czech Republic with 10 million humans, that t probably has about a thousand supernaturals. And the split of those is that roughly 400 would be in Prague, roughly 400 would be in the actual wilderness and countryside, and only about 200 supernaturals would be in all other cities in the country. So your chance of meeting a vampire in Plzen or Brno is pretty darn low. And as it happens, that is what you get in Czech Republic specifically, with the Bishop of Prague having a flock of 250 (with another 150 foreigners and independents) while Ostrava and Liberec having so few Sabbat members in them that the head of the organization in each of those cities is just a Priest.
Username17
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Post by Username17 »

Status and Office in the Camarilla
No one wants it to be easy to depose a king. Then there would be no luster left in becoming king..

Nominally of course, the Camarilla appoints all possible positions and titles to members from above. Even the Inner Circle members are appointed by the Inner Circle. In practice, it is entirely possible to rise on one's own merits and decisions in a myriad of ways. The most obvious is that if you go set up a Camarilla kingdom somewhere, you are the Prince. And it is pretty difficult to get rid of a sitting Prince. Similarly, a character can appoint themselves for pretty much any need for which there is a void. Like in any system of government, the first rule is that you have to want to do it.

The Inner Circle: The Camarilla is led by a shadowy cabal that meets several times a year. There are supposedly seven members, and their edicts are the Law.
Justicar: Each of the Inner Circle members is allowed one Justicar, a roving one-person supreme court who dispenses justice and interprets the laws of the Camarilla.
Archon: The original purpose of the Archon was to carry mail, edicts, and diplomacy from one city in the Camarilla to another. Tonight, with the advent of airplanes and email, there is a lot less need for these sorts of activities and there are many less Archons than there once were. But they retain their function as bearers of the will of the Camarilla, and they are now roaming courts – like a Justicar-lite.
Prince: The leader of a Camarilla city is the Prince. All appointments in the city are done by the Prince, though in many cities the Primogen Council wields such power that their “recommendations” are essentially rubber-stamped by the Prince.
Primogen: Anyone who achieves sufficient gravitas within the Camarilla is afforded the honorary title of Primogen, which they hold in perpetuity (although it is left unacknowledged while they have any other title – noone would bother citing the fact that a Justicar is also a Primogen). Whenever a city's Council meetings are called, any Primogen who wants to can show up. Even Primogen who don't live in the city. In some cities the Primogen council, or even specific Primogen, have more real authority than the Prince. In others, the Council's statements are just advisory and the Prince's word is final.
Harpy: Some Princes or Councils take a tremendously hands-on approach to government, and others don't. Some cities employ one or more Harpies, whose job it is to do administrative work that the higher ups can't or don't want to do. In Dubai there are many Harpies, and they are often empowered to administer the many mundane business operations that the Camarilla controls. On the flip side, the Prince of Khartoum does not keep any records at all and there are no Harpies.
Sheriff: Most kingdoms employ a Sheriff, who is someone entrusted to keep the Traditions and enforce the Law. In larger, more media-savvy cities like Houston, the Sheriff will have several Harpies assigned to help them.

Status and Office in the World Crime League
Honestly, it's more like a set of guidelines...

The World Crime League officially rewards and expects ambition from its members, but it also requires success (or at least the appearance of success) from its leadership. A title is bestowed for a minimum amount of time, after which anyone can challenge them for the post, with most challenges being settled by election (though some being up for other demonstrations of fitness, including trial by combat in some instances). If someone fails to unseat an office holder, they may not challenge for a seat for an amount of time equal to the amount of time the office would have been guaranteed. This system is an amalgamation of the Chinese Imperial Examination system and the pirate government that it grew out of.

Captain: Each territory has two separate leaders. The Captain is in charge of the military of the territory and also justice within its borders. Holding the Captaincy makes one the “stick” in all incentivization. Perversely, this makes the Captain usually rather well-liked, as physical punishment is rarely used and the WCL is not often at war with anything or anyone.
Quartermaster: The Quartermaster rewards members of the organization for their activities and distributes resources. They provide the “carrot” of incentives for the WCL. Quartermasters are almost universally hated and feared, because every member of the WCL gets some portion of the resource distributions and feels that they personally don't get enough.
The Councilors: Each territory can send one member to negotiate on their behalf when councils are called. Traditionally, the Captain would go to a council of war (called a Bình Thân) and the Quartermaster would go to a council of administration (called a Diên Hồng). In more recent nights, with councils becoming almost a continuous affair over one thing or another, it has become standard to have other members take the mantle of Councilor. There is talk of making the Councilor a permanent capacity, and some territories that are very far from Malaysia have already done so. The Councilor of San Francisco basically lives in Singapore and is always on hand to argue San Francisco's position the moment a council is called. The success of this program has prompted immitators.
Ministers: Anyone put in charge of anything is technically a “Minister” of something or other. Broadly speaking, there are five kinds of Ministers, who each get a different insignia. The categories (and their insignia) are Military (Peacock), Law (Elephant), Wealth (Cat), Territory (Water Buffalo), and Sorcery (Swastika). Fitting modern concerns into these five categories is sometimes rather a stretch, and there are instances where essentially identical roles are given different insignia.
Military Minister: Originally given to military officers, the peacock is now given to those who help enforce adherence to The Code and those who work on keeping knowledge and weaponry on hand to battle “rogue elements” such as Demons and Pods. So for example, the San Francisco Territory has a Minister of Comparative Biology whose job it is to keep samples and conflict testimonials to aid in investigations of potential invasions from other worlds. And while he does not carry a weapon of any kind, his insignia is a peacock.
Law Minister: The World Crime League has crime in its name, and takes this sort of thing very seriously. Law Ministers in the WCL are mostly concerned with bypassing the laws of human society rather than enforcing the code of the WCL (that's a job for the military). So for example, the Territory of Kabul they have a several Ministers of various opium schemes, and they all get the elephant because their proximal job is to keep WCL members from getting destroyed or captured by mortal governments or tribes.
Wealth Ministers: The World Crime League has quite substantial taxation, substantially more so than the Sabbat's 10% Tithe. The cat emblem goes on any Minister who manages collection or distribution of the WCL's considerable financial resources. Wealth Ministers of one type or another are the ones who actually underwrite new ministries when they are created. The Quartermaster of a Territory directly commands any Wealth Minister that operates in their jurisdiction.
Territory Minister: Originally they were ministers of “agriculture and geography” and their job was to manage the food sources (including the more... special food sources) of members as well as making sure that things weren't falling apart in the villages and keep maps of the world for the covenant. Tonight you can get maps on wikipedia and most food shows up in grocery stores without Witches having to do anything. So the Territory Ministers have gradually become news gatherers and event watchers. These nights, the water buffalo is virtually synonymous with “spy” and many Ministers keep their insignia hidden from everyone but the Quartermaster and possibly the Captain.
Sorcery Ministers: Purely magical concerns, such as a portal network or prophecy sets have Sorcery Ministers appointed to govern them. It is important to note that in most places the WCL is strong, the swastika is not considered a problematic symbol, and in any case it's supposed to be hidden from mortals. So really, the WCL hasn't had a problem with it.
The Lunatic Fringe
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Post by The Lunatic Fringe »

I understand perfectly that the swastika is an ancient symbol predating nazism by thousands of years, and that in South Asia it is not offensive at all, but recall that this game is going to be played mostly by people of English speaking countries such as the US, Australia, and Britain, where the primary association of that symbol is, in fact, Hitler.

Why not replace it with an octopus (ianua inferni or the gate of hell, associated with the swastika) or a monkey (trickery, inquisitiveness)? Both have meanings related to "sorcery", and both would fit the animal theme.

Not a big deal, really.[/i]
Username17
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Post by Username17 »

Actually, since characters aren't really going to be pictured anywhere with their WCL Ministerial Rank Insignia, that bit of text is basically just there to expand people's minds and teach them a bit about Asian History. I mean fuck, if you shy away from actual Asian stuff in your Asian themed groups, you end up with Weaboo bullshit like Kindred of the East.

The WCL section should frankly have more history in it, because you're right that people don't know this shit. I'll edit it up to go into more detail about being founded under the regime of Vietnamese Emperor Trần Nhân Tông and their sponsorship of the Malay Sultanates.

Status and Office in the Sabbat
You think you're bigger than God? Let me tell you, I am bigger than God.

The Sabbat is an Ecclesiastical organization, and despite the fact that a majority of its members (and even leaders) do not believe in the theology on which they were founded, their structure has remained mostly constant. More so than the human church upon which they were originally based. The Sabbat hierarchy is pretty rigid even if their apologetics are not. Promotion is always from above with the singular exception that the anti-pope is promoted from within by a democratic quorum of the heresiarchs. The organization's concept of “above” is slightly counterintuitive, as it is divided into orders whose offices are parallel in rank and function.

The Anti-Pope: The head of the Heresiarch's Council, the Anti-Pope is the first sentence ad the final answer. Currently the Anti-Pope rules from the shadow city under Rome, but there is strong current of opinion that it should move to Ciudad de Mexico as that city has more than 8 times as many actual Sabbat members in it and basically determines the Sabbat's overall direction in a very real way.
Bishop: The ruler of each Sabbat City is the Bishop. Bishops can run their cities pretty much however they want, and appoint (or approve) all of the Priests in their territory.
Cardinal: Some Sabbat cities have a Cardinal instead of a bishop (or in weird cases, mostly in Italy, in addition to the Bishop). The Cardinal is a Bishop (or Bishop equivalent such as Prelate or Palatine) and also has more authority in the running of the Sabbat globally. They are the Heresiarchs and when the Anti-Pope dies or resigns they meet to elect a new one. Most anti-papal decrees are actually drafter by the Heresiarchs (either singularly or in groups) and then approved by the Anti-Pope.
Apostolic Exarch: An Apolostolic Exarch is given the same respect due to a Bishop, but they do not control a city. They are given supervision of a region that the Sabbat do not control. In ages past, an Apostolic Exarch was appointed “over” a hostile region with the understanding that if they could attract enough Sabbat members to crusade against it to conquer it and make it a Sabbat territory that they would automatically become the Bishop of that land. Tonight that practice has been officially abandoned by Sabbat leadership, and an Apostolic Exarch is essentially an ambassador to another covenant. They speak for the interests of Sabbat flock persisting or working in territories acknowledged as belonging to another covenant.
Military Ordinal: The Crusading Army of the Sabbat has at times consisted of most of the Sabbat's flock. The Anti-Pope divides the Crusading Army into military orders, and the leader of each order is essentially a Bishop. Anyone can ask for acceptance into any military order at any time, and if accepted they essentially answer to the Military Ordinal of it instead of the Bishop of whatever parish they happen to be in.
Prelate: The Sabbat has a number of contemplative orders, each headed by a Prelate. These Prelates are roughly equivalent to a Bishop, save that they are in charge of an order rather than a region. Like with military orders, a member of the Sabbat can apply to join a contemplative order, and if accepted, is considered to be “in” the order instead of the city they happen to persist in.
Palatine: A Palatine is an arbiter of Sabbat Law. It is their responsibility to make decisions based upon the sum total of Anti-Papal decrees, to resolve differences between flock members and inflict punishments on those who have been accused by Bishops. Palatinate Courts move around a lot. Even the largest Sabbat City (Ciudad de Mexico) only has about 5000 in its Flock and there aren't cases
Priest: The Sabbat requires each member of the Flock to check in with a member of the Church authority at least once a week. This ritual of intrusive government is handled by a Priest. Many Bishops have several Priests working under them. Each Priest will be assigned some members of the Flock to keep an eye on so they can deliver weekly reports on interesting developments to the Bishop. But a Priest isn't just a member of the secret police, they also serve a leadership and administrative function.
Monk: A Monk is roughly equivalent to a Priest in rank, but is a member of a military or contemplative order and is expected to act as a military coordinator for their personal flock (who need not be geographically located), or as a coordinator of whatever the contemplative order does (again, possibly in a non-geographical manner). Some orders bestow the rank of Monk on every member who joins after a period of apprenticeship.
Glossator: A Glossator is similar to a lawyer. They assist Palatines with the making of legal decisions by crafting arguments (called “Glosses”) that indicate how a situation could be reconciled with all previous Anti-Papal edicts such that none of the edicts contradict each other. Some of the logic is quite as tortured as those found guilty of breaking the edicts. Glossators follow adversarial principals in law, and an accused brought before a Palatine is permitted a Glossator to argue on their behalf.
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Post by Username17 »

Wounds
OK, that hurt

When a character takes damage, they are usually allowed to Soak that damage. This involves rolling a Soak Test (normally Strength), with the hits subtracted from incoming damage. If the damage is soaked to zero (or less), the character takes no perceptible damage. If after the damage is soaked it is still some positive number, the character suffers a wound. Some number of boxes will be filled up. All characters have 10 boxes on their condition monitor. And when those boxes are filled in, they are marked depending on the type of damage it is:
Less Lethal: If the wound is a Less Lethal Wound, draw a single diagonal line between the lower left of the box and the upper right of the box. Like this: [/]
Lethal: If the wound is a Lethal Wound, draw two diagonal lines that cross in the box. Like this: [X]
Aggravated: If the wound is an Aggravated Wound, draw two diagonal lines that cross in the box and run a horizontal line through that. Like this: [X]

When the character's boxes fill up they are incapacitated, but they do not necessarily die. If more Lethal or less lethal wounds are inflicted when all the boxes are filled in and there are any boxes filled in as Less Lethal, draw an extra diagonal line through an appropriate number of them to make them Lethal wound boxes. For ease of accounting, it can be good to arrange all wounds in the order of Aggravated, Lethal, Less Lethal in the character's wound boxes. This can be achieved with simplicity by treating the forward and backward slash of the Lethal wound as separate and placing each one on the first line it fits. You can do the same with the horizontal mark on the Aggravated Wound.
Net Damage Wound Name Wound Boxes
1 Petty Wounds 1 Box
2 Ordinary Wounds 3 Boxes
3 Serious Wounds 6 Boxes
4 Incapacitating Wounds All 10 Boxes
5 Terminal Wounds All 10 Boxes*

*: Also, you are probably going to die.
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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Frank, it looks like the section under "palatine" was cut off. Also, you should probably indicate that when your boxes are all 'x'ed you die.

The damage accounting does look pretty straightforward, which is a huge boon compared to multiple damage tracks or subtracting from 122 HP. As usual, the culture foci are awesome.
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Post by TavishArtair »

"Less Lethal" isn't going to fly as a name, when people are fidgeting with numbers and correcting them and saying "take 2 less lethal damage," to someone who just took 5 lethal damage. Do they subtract 2 or add 2? While clarity can be achieved through further queries, we don't need to bog the process down further. If the distinction is similar to what it usually is, use a name like Stunning damage instead (assuming you don't want to use Bashing).
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Post by Grek »

Nonlethal seems like a good choice.
Last edited by Grek on Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Starmaker »

Frank,
Does everything have 10 wound levels, like in Dead Man's Hand?
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Post by Username17 »

OK, how is this revision? I am divided as to inflicting Wound Penalties. Shadowrun's Wound Penalties aren't nearly enough, and nWoD accrues them too late to make any difference.

One thing I am thinking of doing is giving out a -1 penalty for each [/] on your Wound Track and letting people heal those separately from the [\] on a Lethal Wound (and quickly). Does that sound like it would generate the kinds of Jason Bournesque sequences where the character is taken down, shakes himself off, then walks off bleeding? I think that's what we're looking for out of life and gunshot wounds, but I'm not totally sure.

Wounds
OK, that hurt

When a character takes damage, they are usually allowed to Soak that damage. This involves rolling a Soak Test (normally Strength), with the hits subtracted from incoming damage. If the damage is soaked to zero (or less), the character takes no perceptible damage. If after the damage is soaked it is still some positive number, the character suffers a wound. Some number of boxes will be filled up. All characters and objects have 10 boxes on their condition monitor. And when those boxes are filled in, they are marked depending on the type of damage it is:
Nonlethal: If the wound is a Nonlethal Wound, draw a single diagonal line between the lower left of the box and the upper right of the box. Like this: [/]
Lethal: If the wound is a Lethal Wound, draw two diagonal lines that cross in the box. Like this: [X]
Aggravated: If the wound is an Aggravated Wound, draw two diagonal lines that cross in the box and run a horizontal line through that. Like this: [X]

When all 10 of a character's boxes fill up with any kind of mark they are incapacitated, but they do not necessarily die. If more Lethal or Nonlethal wounds are inflicted when all the boxes are filled in and there are any boxes filled in as Nonlethal, draw an extra diagonal line through an appropriate number of them to make them Lethal wound boxes. Similarly, Aggravated wounds displace lesser wounds if the track is already full. For ease of accounting, it can be good to arrange all wounds in the order of Aggravated, Lethal, Nonlethal in the character's wound boxes. This can be achieved with simplicity by treating the forward and backward slash of the Lethal wound as separate and placing each one on the first line it fits. You can do the same with the horizontal mark on the Aggravated Wound.

In the case that a character is Incapacitated and at least one of the boxes filled in only with Nonlethal damage, they are in no immediate danger (from their wounds, being incapacitated in a place where you just took a wound implies a certain level of urgency in most cases). If however every box is filled in with Lethal or Aggravated damage, the character's condition has a chance of degrading – sending them spiraling into death, especially if they do not receive medical care. In general, intervention can stabilize such a character if administered within an hour of the injury, and sometimes characters will stabilize anyway.

A Terminal Wound is much like an Incapacitating Wound in that it fills up all of the character's wound boxes. The difference is that it is also an emergent threat to the character's life. A character who suffers a Terminal Wound will need to be stabilized within about five minutes or – barring a miracle – they will die. And yes, that includes “Nonlethal” wounds. A rubber bullet or a boxer's punch is entirely capable of stopping a heart, and then someone had better be on hand with CPR or the curtain is coming down.
Net Damage Wound Name Wound Boxes
1 Petty Wounds 1 Box
2 Ordinary Wounds 3 Boxes
3 Serious Wounds 6 Boxes
4 Incapacitating Wounds All 10 Boxes
5 Terminal Wounds All 10 Boxes*

*: Also, you are probably going to die.
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Post by schpeelah »

Random thoughts on advancement: we probably want at least two point tracks - one for general stuff available at chargen, which would mostly be horizontal advancement, and another for Potency and Elder Disciplines which are significant vertical power gain and a huge deal in-world. No number of Basic Disciplines is equal to getting your first Elder. I was also thinking about separating Discipline advancement and skills & attributes as it's a game centred around immortal characters many of whom will be very experienced yet haven't gained too many new magical powers, so we may want to grant Disciplines in a way that is unrelated to regular XP. I'm not sure how Edge fits into all this.

So the number of ways in which you increase your character's power, in the order of how often it happens goes like this: Resources, Skills and Attributes, Basic and Advanced Disciplines, Potency and Elder Disciplines.

Right now I'm reading Freak Legions and there are a few powers I think are worth transplanting.

Cause Insanity and Corrupted Visions as Advanced versions of Poison the Heart.

Wall Walking is pretty iconic. That and the one above goes to the Miscellaneous Discipline as a Basic. (We totally have to have separate names to Disciplines as abilities and as groups of abilities).

Hidden Power will be desired by some, though this is much less useful than Basic Disciplines. What made you remove those 3-die bonus/penalty things?

Obviously I'm also tempted to argue implementing Fomori themselves, sharing the "difficult but technically playable" category with Wraiths. True, they are Steve monsters, but they are also supposed to be low-powered granting them very few Disciplines. To complete the triad, you could have Psychics/Mutants (called differently depending on whether they have physical or mental Disciplines). Their selling point for players would be either
- introductory one-shots close to human level for new players to get familiarized with the system,
- for when more experienced ones bored of running characters with 11+ Disciplines, looking to run a bunch of Steves that make the most of the 1-3 abilities that largely define them
- the fact that, since they are not immortal, rising their power significantly during the campaign won't be as verisimilitude-breaking (immortals have to work for centuries to rise to Elder power levels otherwise the setting will swarm with extremely powerful supernaturals)

One more thing: Advanced Disciplines obsoleting Basic ones. Right now there's only one such pair: Hand of Fire and Firestarter, but most of my list also applies. What I think is the right solution is getting a discount of sorts so when you deduct the cost of the Basic version from the cost of the Advanced since what the Advanced one does contains what the Basic does.
Last edited by schpeelah on Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TarkisFlux »

I'm missing something... what's the point of having both lethal and aggravated damage? If I want to knock someone out, I just have to fill up their track with non-lethal, and if I want to kill them I have to fill up their track with lethal... and if I want them to die again I fill up their track with aggravated? I don't see a short term reason to deal aggravated over lethal... is there a long term reason to do it? Is aggravated more difficult to heal than the other types, so it sticks around longer and weakens them through more scenes?
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Post by Username17 »

Scleepah wrote:Random thoughts on advancement: we probably want at least two point tracks - one for general stuff available at chargen, which would mostly be horizontal advancement, and another for Potency and Elder Disciplines which are significant vertical power gain and a huge deal in-world. No number of Basic Disciplines is equal to getting your first Elder. I was also thinking about separating Discipline advancement and skills & attributes as it's a game centred around immortal characters many of whom will be very experienced yet haven't gained too many new magical powers, so we may want to grant Disciplines in a way that is unrelated to regular XP. I'm not sure how Edge fits into all this.

So the number of ways in which you increase your character's power, in the order of how often it happens goes like this: Resources, Skills and Attributes, Basic and Advanced Disciplines, Potency and Elder Disciplines.
Good ideas.
Right now I'm reading Freak Legions and there are a few powers I think are worth transplanting.
I can agree with that. It's been a long time snce I read Freak Legion, but I it's actually one of the more influential books o my WoD writing.
Cause Insanity and Corrupted Visions as Advanced versions of Poison the Heart.
I don't remember what Corrupted Visions does. Could it be an Auspex/Presence Devotion? That slot is currently empty.
Wall Walking is pretty iconic. That and the one above goes to the Miscellaneous Discipline as a Basic. (We totally have to have separate names to Disciplines as abilities and as groups of abilities).
I'll agree with Wall Walking being pretty iconic. But of course with straight up flight being a Potence/Presence devotion, Spidermaning it would have to be a Basic. Frankly, I am unhappy with Feat of Strength and what it seems to do to Trolls with oversized cleavers (which is to say: turns most player characters into a red mist with only theoretical die rolling involved). I am leaning towards actually reworking things so that the secondary Basic Potence Discipline being Wall Walking. And while I don't think that involves any other changes to the Akuma or Trolls (I have no problem with the big boys climbing the outsides of skyscrapers after you), and I even think there is some Terminatoresque precedence for Wall Walking as an Android thing, I think that Frankensteins and Golems will be getting a new core discipline out of the deal.
Hidden Power will be desired by some, though this is much less useful than Basic Disciplines. What made you remove those 3-die bonus/penalty things?
I don't even know what you mean by this.
Obviously I'm also tempted to argue implementing Fomori themselves, sharing the "difficult but technically playable" category with Wraiths.
Well... there's no Wyrm, so their whole deal is just sort of not happening. That being said, Pentex is in (in however tangential fashion), and they are heavily tied up with the whole Transhumans thing. The writeup on Sons of Ether and Fallen is pretty skeletal right now, and if you'd like I could easily throw in a bunch of Fomori allusions. Mr. Hyde and the Invisible Man both could very plausibly be driven by Bane Spirits to do bad things.

In other news, here's some more random stuff:

  • Tracking Echoes of the Muse (Auspex and Celerity)
    Whenever the character is exposed to sensory stimuli, they can spend a Power Point to know where it came from. So if they hear a phrase, even over a telephone or from a recording, they can know where in the world it was spoken. By seeing a picture, they can know where it was painted. And so on.

The Carthian Movement
Tradition is but the illusion of permanence. Change is not just inevitable, it is good.

Supernatural societies have with necessity been extremely conservative over the generations. And such it was that when the age of enlightenment hit the human world, the supernatural world found itself falling behind. The Carthian Movement was founded as a reform movement for the supernatural world to take advantage of the new ideas and opportunities found in human science. Arranged in a “cell structure,” the Carthian Movement nominally holds that all of their membership is equal, save for the Revolutionary Committee members themselves who are substantially more equal.

The Carthians hold that advancements in human strength and society are, or at least can be, for the good of the supernaturals. Rather than viewing the world as shrinking, leaving them with less and less space in which to hide, the Carthians view the world as growing with more and more humans and cities with which to obscure themselves. The Carthian masquerade is one based largely upon anonymity rather than invisibility.

The Carthian Movement appeals to the young (which in supernatural terms means the last 400 years or so), and campaigns for the removal of traditional privileges for the ancient and established monsters of the world. The Carthians favor change and a new way of doing things modeled upon human reforms, but that's about as far as they go in agreeing with one another. It is easy to get the distributed Carthian apparatus to help tear down something or turn upon a criminal, but relatively difficult to pass effective resolutions. The ideological divides amongst the Revolutionary Committee are fierce and hard drawn, so the group as a whole acts rarely and with much debate on matters of anything but immediate survival.

As a reformist, “bottom up” movement, the Carthians have been able to make great inroads in areas that were previously outside covenants, and toppled several minor ones (such as the Inconnu, the Laibon, and the Kingdom of Yomi). Most impressive of their feats was the dismantling and absorption of the Bumin Horde of Ergenekon. Carthians hold a great deal of power in China and many former Soviet Republics, and also in much of the American Midwest, Canada, and France. The Carthians hold territory easily containing more human population than any other covenant, a fact that is truly frightening to many other covenants considering their newness.

Despite their European origins, or perhaps because of the proximity of their founding to the capital of the Sabbat, the Carthians have made little progress in Western Europe. In 1798 it seemed that the Carthians were on the brink of sacking the Heresiarch Council and ending the Sabbat Church altogether. However, in the coming years the Sabbat made a number of reforms and concessions to various bishops themselves and held onto their European holdings all the way to the Alps. The Carthians ended up signing onto peace and expanding instead into the lands of those covenants that refused to adapt.

Probably Established: 18th century CE, Pyrenees Mountains.

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Post by A Hammer »

TarkisFlux wrote:I'm missing something... what's the point of having both lethal and aggravated damage? If I want to knock someone out, I just have to fill up their track with non-lethal, and if I want to kill them I have to fill up their track with lethal... and if I want them to die again I fill up their track with aggravated? I don't see a short term reason to deal aggravated over lethal... is there a long term reason to do it? Is aggravated more difficult to heal than the other types, so it sticks around longer and weakens them through more scenes?
Aggravated damage is harder to heal with Revive the Flesh. In the short term, dealing aggravated damage to a vampire prevents him from regenerating back to full hit points in the middle of combat.
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Post by Username17 »

TarkisFlux wrote:I'm missing something... what's the point of having both lethal and aggravated damage? If I want to knock someone out, I just have to fill up their track with non-lethal, and if I want to kill them I have to fill up their track with lethal... and if I want them to die again I fill up their track with aggravated? I don't see a short term reason to deal aggravated over lethal... is there a long term reason to do it? Is aggravated more difficult to heal than the other types, so it sticks around longer and weakens them through more scenes?
Agg damage takes longer (and more power points if you have that kind of magic) to heal.

Basically, Agg damage is just lethal damage that has a line through it to indicate that you can't heal it in the middle of combat.

The most relevant passage is this one:

[*] Revive the Flesh The character can heal their wounds by drawing upon their magical power. By spending a Power point, the character's wounds suture themselves, restoring their body to its original condition without mark or scar. Each power point heals one box of Lethal or two boxes of Nonlethal damage. Wounds healed in this manner are gone in one round. Any wounds short of death can be healed in this manner. Aggravated damage is harder to heal, and takes two Power points and an hour per box.

Edit: Ninja'd!

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Last edited by Username17 on Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Quantumboost »

Also for Cleanse the Body (the Fort/Presence Devotion). It's generally bad news if you happen to depend on healing damage in combat rather than soaking it. There's also an Elder Fortitude power which specifically turns aggravated into lethal.
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Post by schpeelah »

FrankTrollman wrote:I don't remember what Corrupted Visions does. Could it be an Auspex/Presence Devotion? That slot is currently empty.
Corrupted Visions
"I had to do it! God told me to!"
You induce hallucinations in the victim/victims, anything from brief glimpses of something in the corner of the eye to full-blown manifestation of Jesus, with the intent to drive them crazy and get them to do what you want them to.
I have no idea how it would work mechanically, really. Probably useful mostly when dealing with mortals plus an occasional strategically placed misdirection against supernatural foes.
FrankTrollman wrote:I don't even know what you mean by this.
Vampire writeups in the previous thread had the following:
All Illuminated Nosferatu also possess a stronger personality. When making an attempt to intimidate or terrify someone, they may add 3 dice. This explicitly may apply to uses of Animalism which cow or terrifying beast, but not soothe or merely interact, and likewise to any hunting-related rolls where the Nosferatu is stalking and harrying prey into terror and exhaustion. After using this advantage, however, a Nosferatu subtracts 3 dice from any attempt to make them appear polite, friendly, or otherwise anything but the horrific monster they just revealed themselves to be.
If an Illuminated Daeva has taken to hypnotizing their prey with their fine appearance, then when called on to make any check to understand or out-think their target, albeit not persuade or seduce, they gain a 3 die bonus. However, they suffer a 3 die penalty on any attempt to make themselves concealed in any which way for the remainder of the scene, and while they may mislead others as to who they are this will also hinder any attempt to disguise themselves. This obviously requires them to interact with their subject.
When an Illuminated Ventrue decides to fixate on a single point of obsession in a scene, whoever or whatever that is, she gains 3 dice on any roll to resist any attempt to stop her, including physical restraints, grapples, and even breaking down stationary obstacles like walls, although not fighting through enemy combatants, as except for escaping holds, they are only barriers in the most figurative sense. They subtract 3 dice from any attempts to retreat from their objective, however, including doing other things which require a retreat or even postponing pursuing it.
While I understand this no longer fits the current mechanics, dropping it altogether means we're back to square one on the Clan Weakness issue.
FrankTrollman wrote:Well... there's no Wyrm, so their whole deal is just sort of not happening.
What I understand as the core concept of it is that there are weak demons floating around and once one finds a suitable mortal, they "possess" him, turning him into an extremely weak supernatural creature.
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Post by Username17 »

How is Corrupted Visions different from Dream Vision or Telepathy?
Scleepah wrote:While I understand this no longer fits the current mechanics, dropping it altogether means we're back to square one on the Clan Weakness issue.
Yeah, hose things don't fit the current mechanics, and went out. And the Clan Weakness thing is an open question. I like the idea of giving out a smallish "clan bonus" and hopefully some sort of supernatural "tell" that each one leaves behind. The Daeva, for example, have little demon parts if you strip them naked. That's a very simple method of determining their type and supernatural nature. Giving them some kind of advantage that encouraged them to be sexy vampire bitches would be good too, but I'm not sure what. I was thinking that Werewolves could get to transform into Warform for free if they did it when the moon rose or they went into rage frenzy. That would encourage them to be the rampaging beasts we know and love. But yeah, that kind of give-n-take is seriously 36 vaguely balanced advantages and disadvantages. Probably worth it, but a fair amount of work.
What I understand as the core concept of it is that there are weak demons floating around and once one finds a suitable mortal, they "possess" him, turning him into an extremely weak supernatural creature.
So you think we should have rules for Fallen Spawn?

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Post by schpeelah »

... Now that you put it that way, I realise I was being pretty stupid about it.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

It should be noted, that almost every character that I play, and my playstyle is summed up in the Hedonistic character.

If shit gets bad, I'll back off. That's anywhere, in an MMO pull gone wrong, when driving and seeing a problem up ahead on the road, or just about anything else. I've found that it's easier to just not be there, since it means you can't be targetted.

I hate fighting anything toe-to-toe, since it means that I might not make it this fight (and if you do that enough, you won't survive for long); and being told in a story "no, you can't do that" for arbitrary or rather bullshit reasons is extremely frustrating.
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Post by Prak »

Just got back from a midnight showing of Cirque du Freak: The Vampire's Assistant, looks like it'd be a great use for AWoD's setup, had recognizable factions of vampires, a recognizable mage, a recognizable werewolf (despite that it departs from the spirit of the WoD werewolf), and several freaks that are likely normal-ish people with powers.

Did we ever decide what type got snake people? There was a snake person in the movie...

I was just surprised to see that it would work very well with AWoD rules.
The book series

There are of course some differences, but, well, that's to be expected.
Last edited by Prak on Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Quantumboost »

Ventrue are snake vampires, though you could plausibly extend Khaibit more heavily into the snake metaphor. They already have "some sort of poison".
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Post by Username17 »

I didn't even know that they made a movie of that. That's what I get for living in Eastern Europe and watching my TV through the internet - I get weird ads. End result is that I end up knowing how to get a Russian prostitute and not knowing what movies are playing. I am not sure that I am better off.

Anyway, how is the movie? All I know about the series is what I hear online, and since it's a book series aimed at children, that's damned little. Apparently the main character is a literal self insertion character? And there are "vampire atoms" that disrupt photography but don't have any effect on heir reflections? Outside of some people making fun of the book series I really have no idea what's up with it. And seemingly from the one review up at imdb the movie is actually much better written than the book is, so I have no idea if any of the mockery even applies.

But yeah, right now your basic snake chick is a Ventrue vampire, which is more like Lair of the White Worm than Naga. This in part because the oWoD snake vampires were very cool and the oWoD were snakes were stupid.

-Username17
schpeelah
Knight-Baron
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:38 pm

Post by schpeelah »

Moving on.

Clan Weaknesses can probably be done easier if, instead of being standalone mechanical traits, we make them as part of already existing mechanics. Thus:

Every Supernatural that takes Dread Gaze becomes more creepy or frightening even when the power is not actively used. Mechanically, this takes the form of a +2/+4/+6 bonus to Intimidate, accompanied by -1/-2/-3 penalty to Empathy. Nosferatu should obviously have it.

and

Characters with Master Passion Rage are most prone to frenzy shortly after regaining Power Points. If prior to that they had been low on Power (as low as a character with Hunger would have to be to frenzy), regaining PP would constitute a frenzy trigger.

And so on. I'd have posted more and sooner, but I've been quite busy lately. If I can, I'll add more later.
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