[Dom3] Draft: Etimhara Victorious

[Zinegata]

Just because I'm finishing you off doesn't make me the #1 global threat - which is always Frank.

Uh, right. You claim Frank is the #1 threat yet you didn't lift a finger to help either Catharcia or Sachs against Nimtir after we asked.

There's no doubt that Frank is a scary good player who will likely kill you all given the chance; but pointing the finger at Frank as the "threat to world peace" when you actively refused to deal with the threat is looking to be pretty hollow.

As Korwin said, you're just being greedy. You opportunistically attacked anyone that Frank clobbered first (or tried to; Nimtir cut you off before you munched on Catharcia).

No victor spoils for you.

[Zinegata]

doesn't make me the #1 global threat - which is always Frank.

While I can agree with this position*, I still find you a little greedy. Trying to cut me of off Sachs meaty parts.
I'll probably still snipe some of Sachs unclaimed provinces.

*

Btw. what is Frank doing? Besides being second in Provinces.
Mass producing summoning Demons? (Would be my guess.)

Provice graph (Frank is second)


Research graph (Frank is second to last)

He's still dealing with the Cartharcian Liberation Front (Or the Liberation Front of Cartharcia. Or the Free Catharcia Movement. Can't keep track of all these resistance organizations! )

[Username17]

I still cannot for the life of me understand what possessed Sachs to declare war on Nimtir in the first place. I understand the attack on Tsimzan: it was a risky surprise attack that would have resulted in fame and glory had it worked. And it didn't work and cost Sachs big. But sure, sometimes you take big risks and they don't pay out. What the fucking hell was the thought of declaring war on Nimtir? There was no chance of that ending well for Sachs, all it did was force Nimtir to put a bunch of guards on the border to hold Sachs' troops out. This in turn allowed Carthacia to build more spies and perhaps crucially for Etimhara to demand and receive more of the neutral territory on our border.

But what were you thinking? Were you thinking? How the fuck did you expect to go from throwing your remaining army away on another ill fated attack on a different neighbor after you'd already taken it in the dick trying and failing to invade the first neighbor to work out with anything other than a relative boost to your other neighbors? Were you just trying to be a dickish kingmaker? If so, it's working pretty well. Both in you having given a huge boost to Manditou and Etimhara and also in you having been a total dick about it.

-Nimtir

[Zinegata]

But what were you thinking?

Long story short, I owed Catharcia a favor from earlier in the game, and I decided to go honor over reason.

There was seriously a point where I told Catharcia that I probably should make peace with Nimtir (and we both agreed it was the correct play), but I decided to go "Fuck it, honor over reason".

(Plus, there was a slight chance of getting Etimhara involved at the time, as you had just blocked his way to Catharcia; which he had planned to gobble up. As it turns out, you bribed him off with neutral lands; and why you're blaming me for that I have no idea)

Finally - and not to dig up old drama - there's the matter of the NAP-breaking between Catharcia and Nimtir; and Sachs was more inclined to believe Catharcia's side of the story.

Particularly given how Nimtir (falsely) keeps trying to portray itself as a non-aggressive power, when Nimtir in fact invaded Sachs twice and literally 3/4s of the battles of our war were fought in Sachs territory. We serioulsy only had one attack against "Nimtir" (really Catharcian) territory, and you keep fucking whining over it despite winning. God, stop being such a fucking baby over one attack .

Regardless, we weren't about to sign a NAP with anyone that had even the slightest hint of pact-breaking within a game. It's national policy .

Finally, if we had wanted to king-make then I would be sending my treasury over to Etimhara (we aren't, we're giving it to the most deserving nation who actually beat us), and I wouldn't have opened the door for Ulvoge or Manditou to take a peace of the pie.

So really, enough with the sour-graping and calling people dicks because Catharcia proved hard to digest (we know the real reason why your army had to go home to the capital, and it's not you deciding to be merciful) and you couldn't join in on the Sachs-splitting party.

[Username17]

Plus, there was a slight chance of getting Etimhara involved at the time, as you had just blocked his way to Catharcia; which he had planned to gobble up. As it turns out, you bribed him off with neutral lands; and why you're blaming me for that I have no idea

Etimhara extorted those lands from me. As in, he marched up with an army and said he was going to start taking neutral provinces on the other side of the border unless I was willing to do something about that. Which of course I wasn't, because I was already being attacked by two minor powers. Without you attacking me, those troops could have been spent taking a couple neutral provinces and Etimhara would be smaller and weaker now.

You directly increased the size of Etimhara, who is now killing you. Good job with that.

-Username17

[Zinegata]

Etimhara extorted those lands from me.

Oh, that's more understandable then.

In which case I must say "Well done Etimhara for taking advantage of knowing that Nimtir would be very busy - you greedy bastard" .

[Winnah]

More lies.

Practically every battle between Nimtir and Cartacia to date, Nimtir has been the aggressor. The only exception was a few turns back when I set a small squad of archers to Fire and Flee.

Any claims of being attacked are a crock of shit. Even the event that supposedly sparked the conflict between Nimtir and Carthacia was the result of an attack by Nimtir on a Carthacian province.

Any parties that have a dilpomatic agreement with this treacherous nation should seriously reconsider that stance.

[Username17]

More lies.

Practically every battle between Nimtir and Cartacia to date, Nimtir has been the aggressor. The only exception was a few turns back when I set a small squad of archers to Fire and Flee.

Any claims of being attacked are a crock of shit. Even the event that supposedly sparked the conflict between Nimtir and Carthacia was the result of an attack by Nimtir on a Carthacian province.

Any parties that have a dilpomatic agreement with this treacherous nation should seriously reconsider that stance.

Technically the considerable majority of our battles have been in our capital, so shut the fuck up. That isn't even spin on your part, more battles have been in our actual capital than in all other provinces combined. While the message on those battles is that we discovered a sneaking enemy and attacked - in both the game mechanical sense and the common sense sense, we were the defender.

-Username17

[DSMatticus]

Technically the considerable majority of our battles have been in our capital, so shut the fuck up. That isn't even spin on your part, more battles have been in our actual capital than in all other provinces combined. While the message on those battles is that we discovered a sneaking enemy and attacked - in both the game mechanical sense and the common sense sense, we were the defender.

You're really not helping your "I'm totally an honest guy" position when you count caught spies as "battles."

[Username17]

Technically the considerable majority of our battles have been in our capital, so shut the fuck up. That isn't even spin on your part, more battles have been in our actual capital than in all other provinces combined. While the message on those battles is that we discovered a sneaking enemy and attacked - in both the game mechanical sense and the common sense sense, we were the defender.

You're really not helping your "I'm totally an honest guy" position when you count caught spies as "battles."

When your opponent sends over a thousand gold worth of spies at you, it counts as "battles", yes. Weird battles, but yes it counts.

I'm not talking about scouts. I'm talking about spies. Raising unrest and effectively pillaging my provinces spies. That is an attack. Killing them is a necessity and uses actual troop time. Not killing them reduces my economy to rubble and prevents me from raising troops in my home castles - which is just like having troops get killed. It's combat.

Claiming that he never raised a hand against me is laughable.

-Username17

[DSMatticus]

I said spies because I was aware of what they were. I'm saying they're not battles because an unrest-causing spell is also not a battle, even though it can be economically crippling and takes troop time to fix. Sure, there's the formality of a battle screen in which you chase down and murder one dude, but that's pretty laughable to try and count as a battle.

[Username17]

I said spies because I was aware of what they were. I'm saying they're not battles because an unrest-causing spell is also not a battle, even though it can be economically crippling and takes troop time to fix. Sure, there's the formality of a battle screen in which you chase down and murder one dude, but that's pretty laughable to try and count as a battle.

That is the dumbest thing anyone has said on this board since the last time Shadzar said something.

An unrest causing spell is an attack. It is narrowly not a "battle" because there is no actual battle screen. An unrest causing troop is also an attack. And it is a battle when he gets caught, because there is an actual battle screen.

And yeah, when you "chase down and kill one dude" five times in a turn for several turns running, that starts to mount up. That's hundreds of gold worth of troops that are dying. Do Niefel Giant raids not "count" because they are "only one guy"? Seriously dude, what the fuck is your point?

It's an attack. It involves hundreds of gold worth of troops ceasing to exist on by sides. There are battle screens and little explosions of blood. What more do you fucking want?

-Username17

[DSMatticus]

1) I'm going to note that you are changing the terminology from attack to battle as it suits you in what is either a very careless or very dishonest way. I'm going to call you on that right now; an unrest-causing spell is an attack in that it is an act of aggression. That's obvious, but it has nothing to do with what you or I said. You did not say, "Winnah has attacked me; he's been sabotaging my economy for half a year now," you said, "I am having battles in my capital." And I pointed out (quite correctly), that it is retarded to call killing solo naked human stealth units in your capital a battle.

2) Now, the reference to Niefel Giants is pretty demonstrative that you're totally unwilling to understand any of this. A niefel giant is a military threat. It can and will destroy armies directly even though it is only one dude. A spy is an economic threat that poses exactly zero risk to any military ever (hyperbole). Unless he's thugging them out for some reason, which I seriously doubt. If you want to be right on the technicality that there is a battle screen and enemy units owned by Winnah show up on it, I can't actually stop you. But I can and will laugh at you for having no concept of what a battle actually entails in any reasonable sense.

But hey, you know what: simple question. You have an NAP with another player. You catch one of their scouts, not a spy, in your territory. It is naked and human, so you murder it easily. There is a battle screen, and you are the defender; do you consider the NAP violated? Because if I found myself the defender in a battle against someone with whom I had an NAP, I would be pissed. But you're going to be sane and say no, which means you don't actually consider the part where you catch and murder a stealth unit a meaningful battle.

Now, don't get confused because this particular scenario includes spies; the part where he is economically sabotaging your capital is totally an act of aggression. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about whether the part where you catch and slaughter them is a battle in any sense of the word, like you said it was. And it very obviously isn't, or else you'd flip the eff out everytime you caught someone's scouts.

[DrPraetor]

See, see why Frank is so dangerous? He uses cunning and argumentation to turn his foes against one another.

I will point out that by conquering his hinterlands and the territories of Sachs, I have done more to contain the Frank menace than all of his supposed "enemies" combined, who have done nothing but feed grist to the mill of his war machine and territory to the boundless hunger of his Warlocks.

[Winnah]

A thousand gold worth of spies?

If I had that much free gold don't you think I would have spent it on an army?

On another note, Nimtir is spawning a lot of Fiends of Darkness from province 39, Mite Marsh, which is adjacent to Nimtir's capital. There are 3 blood sites in that province. At first I believed it was a Temple of Darkness, but the rate at which he is spawning Fiends from that province and that province alone can suggest only one thing; Nimtir has a blood boosting site.

That power should not remain in the hands of a treacherous nation.

[Username17]

A thousand gold worth of spies?

If I had that much free gold don't you think I would have spent it on an army?

On another note, Nimtir is spawning a lot of Fiends of Darkness from province 39, Mite Marsh, which is adjacent to Nimtir's capital. There are 3 blood sites in that province. At first I believed it was a Temple of Darkness, but the rate at which he is spawning Fiends from that province and that province alone can suggest only one thing; Nimtir has a blood boosting site.

That power should not remain in the hands of a treacherous nation.

Since my site is revealed, I might as well come clean: that's The Demon Gate and two Arenas. It spawns one Fiend of Darkness per turn. Note: the Arenas make gold and The Demon Gate makes unrest, so the fact that there are all three in one province is basically a waste. Having a blood site would be awesome, but I sincerely do not have one.

This is the level of truth and competency I am dealing with among my enemies. If you really want, I can screen cap this shit for y'all. Winnah might sincerely believe that one Fiend of Darkness per turn indicates the presence of The Summoning Circle, but that is because he is an idiot.

-Username17

[Winnah]

You've spawned a lot more than one fiend per turn. By all means screen cap.

[Zinegata]

See, see why Frank is so dangerous? He uses cunning and argumentation to turn his foes against one another.

I will point out that by conquering his hinterlands and the territories of Sachs, I have done more to contain the Frank menace than all of his supposed "enemies" combined, who have done nothing but feed grist to the mill of his war machine and territory to the boundless hunger of his Warlocks.

Lol, dude, come on. Everyone engages in double speak; but this is just ridiculous doublespeak.

As I already mentioned before: Any claim of Etimhara being the great bulwark to save the world from Nimtir lost all credibility when you decided to not help both Catharcia and Sachs against Nimtir. You're only "defending" the world from Nimtir because you're planning to run away with the game and screw everyone.

Moreover, let's go back to your previous claims of "overtaxation". Even if it's true, you have Growth 3, meaning that overtaxation doesn't hurt you at all. And I know this very well because I also set Sachs up to be a Growth 3 / Overtax nation.

So dismissing Sach's warnings is again just more ridiculous double speak. Facts are simple: Etimhara is gonna gain a massive lead in gold production, gem production, and infrastructure if they take all of Sachs. Take a piece of the Sachs pie before Etimhara takes it all.

[Username17]

You sir, are an idiot.



Got any other factually untrue bullshit you want to accuse me of? For fuck's sake, I don't have any Blood Research. Zero RP. Even if I had the Summoning Circle, which I don't, I wouldn't be able to summon Fiends of Darkness for blood slaves. And if I did have a bunch of blood research, and I couldn't think of anything better to summon than a bunch of Fiends of Darkness, I'd just do that, Mount Chaining or no. Because Fiends of Darkness are really cheap, and the problem is that you summon them one at a time, not that the cost is super high.

-Username17

[Korwin]

For fuck's sake, I don't have any Blood Research. Zero RP.

I really want to know the insidious plan you have here (After the game finishes)...

[Zinegata]

For fuck's sake, I don't have any Blood Research. Zero RP.

I really want to know the insidious plan you have here (After the game finishes)...

My plan involved rushing to Blood 8, picking up Civatateos (for skelly gen), demons (Ritual of Five Gates, various demon generals), and some levels in combat spells (Wind Guide + Flaming Arrow) along the way to get Mandehas. Who would then cover the battlefield in Darkness and maximize the power of our demon units and archers with Dark Vision.

Almost got there too. So close to Blood 8!

[Winnah]

One wonders why Nimtir is so swift to refute a suspicion, yet has made no attempts to refute any other claims against them.

One honest claim amongst all their lies. No wonder they are so quick to focus on it.

I'm surprised my 'Thousand gold worth of spies' has not crippled their infrastructure, what with the relentless agression they have suffered at the hands of Carthacias armies.

[Ancient History]

As part of our self-improvement program, Amblis is in the market for an air magic booster. Will pay 50% above base cost, PM if interested.

[Zinegata]

Would like to ask for another 24 hour extension, office work is crazy again. :/

[DrPraetor]

*double facepalm*

I knew there was a reason not to send Gorgons in solo, couldn't remember what it was, but I did a rushed turn (fearing no internet access) and just sent her in anyway.

Sigh.