What if Evocation didn't suck?

[User3]

Dissolution: It's a freakin 8th level spell, it should kill people. However, I'm willing to acknowledge it's too much (though I don't recall offhand what the average cha stat for monsters of that power-level are - I know most of the MM ones are Outsiders and Dragons, which are going to have awesome Cha).

Also, don't dump charisma (Actually, evasion helps you avoid the cha damage entirely on a successful save - it is damage)

But i could see "no cha damage on a save". Actually, it should also require the target to actually *take* acid damage before its eligible for the cha damage - so immunity or sufficiently high resistance to acid could prevent the cha damage entirely.

Non-scaling area effects: I vaguely modeled those after Acid Cloud type spells - I could be convinced they should scale.

No suggestions to fill in the high-level holes? I suppose I'll get around to doing it eventually... (I should note that most of that was about 3-4 hours of work tops, its not that it takes a long time to write, and when I had bucketfuls of ideas it was fast. But high level spells take more thought time, and you occasionally get things like dissolution where everyone goes 'woh, dude, teh roxxor').

[AlphaNerd]

Always Winter... [Cold]
Level: S/W 9
Components: V,S
Range: Medium (100' + 10'/level)
Area: 1 target/1 mile; see text
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Save: Fort 1/2
SR: Yes

A single target becomes a gateway to the plane of Cold.

You deal 3d6/level Cold damage to the target, and everything within 1 mile of the target (except the target) takes 1d6/level Cold damage. The target is also stunned for 1d6 rounds unless the pass their fortitude save.

If the target is reduced below 0 hitpoints from this spell, he is transformed into an ice statue, and the temperature in a one mile area around the stature becomes 0 degrees (farenheit) 10 years/HD of the target. If the statue is destroyed, the area returns to its normal temperature.

[User3]

1177080091[/unixtime]]Always Winter... [Cold]
Level: S/W 9
Components: V,S
Range: Medium (100' + 10'/level)
Area: 1 target/1 mile; see text
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Save: Fort 1/2
SR: Yes

A single target becomes a gateway to the plane of Cold.

You deal 3d6/level Cold damage to the target, and everything within 1 mile of the target (except the target) takes 1d6/level Cold damage. The target is also stunned for 1d6 rounds unless the pass their fortitude save.

If the target is reduced below 0 hitpoints from this spell, he is transformed into an ice statue, and the temperature in a one mile area around the stature becomes 0 degrees (farenheit) 10 years/HD of the target. If the statue is destroyed, the area returns to its normal temperature.

Interesting conditional effect, rather thematic. Level appropriate damage. I don't like the stunning though - it doesn't say 'cold' to me. I'd use the 'frozen' mechanic I used earlier or slow as the spell. (I've been using stun as a lightning effect).

[AlphaNerd]

Yeah, I don't really care what the effect is -- 3d6 single target with meh side benefit (nd6 to everyone else, party included is a wash, I'm betting) seemed a bit weak. Totally written for the conditional effect.

Could make a "frozen" or slowed (no save) or whatever.


Also, no sonic spells in the list, but a [Cold] [Sonic] Frozen Shatter ("Ice Cubes") SoD might be neat.

[User3]

1177080091[/unixtime]]
If the target is reduced below 0 hitpoints from this spell, he is transformed into an ice statue, and the temperature in a one mile area around the stature becomes 0 degrees (farenheit) 10 years/HD of the target. If the statue is destroyed, the area returns to its normal temperature.

This makes me imagine the 15th-level wizard running a small village in the Antarctic, and freezing a penguin every 10 years to warm things up a little.

Whether or not this is a good thing I don't know (I can't imagine that it's particularly abusable, it's just kind of odd).

[Brobdingnagian]

It should be zero degrees celcius (since that's the temperature that water freezes at) or absolute zero (meaning, uh... colder than outer space. Yeah, no.) So, zero degrees celcius it should be.

...

Friggin' americans and their friggin' imperial measurements...

[User3]

It hardly even capable of snowing at 0 degrees celcius. The spell is much better as 0 degrees farenheiht.

[MrWaeseL]

There is not a situation conceivable in which anything is better in fahrenheit.

[Cielingcat]

Go with -273 degrees C. That's really really cold, but it's still .18 degrees away from absolute zero.

[Fwib]

What about 100 degrees F below the natural temperature? That way, you cast it in the arctic, it gets real cold, but you cast it in the tropics, and sometimes it gets above freezing.

[Brobdingnagian]

Because that requires actually knowing what the temperature is where you cast it.

[Fwib]

1177255253[/unixtime]]Because that requires actually knowing what the temperature is where you cast it.

You ask the DM. That's his job.

[RandomCasualty]

1177080091[/unixtime]]
You deal 3d6/level Cold damage to the target, and everything within 1 mile of the target (except the target) takes 1d6/level Cold damage. The target is also stunned for 1d6 rounds unless the pass their fortitude save.

I hope that 1 mile thing is limited by line of effect, otherwise the DM is gonna be annoyed to all hell when he has to apply damage to every creature in the dungeon when you cast this.

[NineInchNall]

Not to mention when you destroy entire ecosystems.

[Brobdingnagian]

I think that's the point.

[User3]

Destroy ecosystems? No no no... The real question is: How many castings does it take to cause the fusion reaction in the sun to stop.

(How you do this is left as an exercise to the reader).

[Cielingcat]

I don't think you could even do that, since the heat of the sun would probably destroy the statue.

[MrWaeseL]

I swear to god if this thread turns into a nerd argument I will kill you all.

[NineInchNall]

Nerd argument? What the crap do you think discussing D&D is?

[Brobdingnagian]

Better find another forum if you don't want that, Waesel.

[Catharz]

Nerd arguments are about the same to D&D as Monty Python quoting is to computer science, but both are unfortunate.

[User3]

1177307399[/unixtime]]Nerd arguments are about the same to D&D as Monty Python quoting is to computer science, but both are unfortunate.

There is a difference between an argument and a discussion.

A discussion on how to shut down the sun with the spell is a lot different from an argument about it.

(Ceilingcat: how does the sun burn up the body when its 0 degrees farenheit for 1-mile radius about it? An important point here is whether you think the effect is localized around the body or the location the body was in when the spell was cast - if you can teleport the body with the effect already up into the sun then there is no chance of burning up. If not, well, there are magical countermeasures - Energy Immunity Fire comes to mind)

Its also been pointed out to me that extinquishing the sun isn't very likely. Rather, there is going to be some critical volume of these effects that will cause the outward pressure generated by fusion to fall below some threshhold, and the sun will collapse on itself. What the volume of effect needed is depends on whether you think its radiating cold, or just is cold, because that changes the total impact of the spell on the sun. Also, its a nasty fluid dynamics problem that I don't care to deal with.

[User3]

I would think that the actual area of the spell is simply the fixed temperature while the edges of the effect would be attempting to reach a mean temperature with the surrounding area.

[tzor]

Personally I prefer Farenheight. But then you have to understand the definition of zero degrees Farenheight as opposed to zero degrees celcius.

Zero celcius is based on the freezing point of pure water.
Zero farenheight is based on the freezing poing of totally saturated salt water.

Humans are, as I think the star trek epsiode once called us, 'bags of mostly salt water."

As for how many castings would stop the sun ... please ... that's like how many dagger attacks will kill a troll. The fusion nature of the sun would regenerate the temperature as fast or faster than the spell would deplete it. Everyone knows that all you need is trilithium.

[AlphaNerd]

It was intended to be Fahrenheit as:

1) The rules are in Fahrenheit (and the spell should read just below 0 degrees)

In conditions of severe cold or exposure (below 0° F), an unprotected character must make a Fortitude save once every 10 minutes (DC 15, +1 per previous check), taking 1d6 points of nonlethal damage on each failed save. A character who has the Survival skill may receive a bonus on this saving throw and may be able to apply this bonus to other characters as well. Characters wearing winter clothing only need check once per hour for cold and exposure damage.

2) It's supposed to be colder than just freezing.

The statue acts as a heat sink for the world, so yes, the 1mi radius is maintained artificially by the spell, and it'll keep the nearby stuff cooler than the rest of the surrounding area.

As for sun silliness, I don't really care. You could say it drops the temperature in that area by 70 degrees or whatever, it just seemed simpler to state a fixed temp.

And, yes, it's supposed to destroy ecosystems, and the damage should be restricted to LoE. The temperature, however, is not.