This is the internet

[Kaelik]

I made no assertions. I never said you did anything or didn't do anything. I wasn't wrong about anything because I had no stake in this, or anything. I just thought it would be nice to be nice.

I can't see how communication has to be so rigid that anyone would viciously fight for their preference to ignore someone's polite request.

I have NO IDEA what polite request was asked. I THINK it had to do with pronouns.

Hey look. You totally were talking about me. And you even admitted it.

Next time, don't go into damage control "I didn't say that!" mode after you already admitted to saying that.

It makes you look like a tool.

[mean_liar]

QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE WHERE IS THE QUOTE YOU FUCKING LIAR YOU FUCK YOU GODAWFUL FUCK YOU ROTTEN BASTARD FUCKER WHERE IS THE QUOTE WHERE IS IT QUOTE ME YOU FUCKER DO IT QUOTE ME FIND THE QUOTE YOU LYING FUCKER WHERE IS IT YOU CAN'T FIND IT YOU MISERABLE COCKSUCKER YOU CAN'T WHERE IS THE QUOTE WHERE IS IT WHERE DO I SAY "YOU" OR "KAELIK" OR ANYTHING YOU CAN'T BECAUSE I DIDN'T YOU LYING FUCK FUCK YOU YOU MISERABLE BASTARD YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IT ISN'T THERE YOU FUCKER SRSLY WHERE IS IT STOP LYING IT'S NOT THERE YOU STUPID FUCK YOU IDIOT MISERABLE FUCK IT'S NOT THERE SO FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING LYING LIAR FULL OF SHIT PATHETIC ASSHOLE LIAR FULL OF LIES AND LYING AND NOT TELLING THE TRUTH FUCK YOU WHERE IS THE QUOTE WHERE DO I SAY IT WHERE WHERE I BET YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S NOT THERE YOU LIAR FULL OF FUCKING LIES AND BULLSHIT AND LIES AND LIES AND LIES AND FUCK YOU

Penis.


ACTUAL CONTENT EDIT - If you think that I'm actually talking directly to you absent any context, you're wrong. I actually re-read what I wrote and... yeah. It's not about you until you asked me a direct question about respecting desires and I said that it's nice to do that sometimes though in current circumstance no one really seemed to be taking the high road that would preclude such a consideration.

You are a seriously fucked-up dude. Right now. On the internet.

[Orion]

For what it's worth, count, I never found you as distasteful as Kaelik, Ubernoob, et. al. You said crazy shit and went off on certain people, but for comprehensible reasons. You also contributed more to the gaming discussion aspect than the current generation of assclowns.

A thought on swearing, specifically the word "bitch." I agree that it can sometimes be a gender-neutral insult. However, when used specifically in the context of a discussion of sexism and feminism? Sorry, no. Context matters, and people's awareness of the historical slur-value of an insult comes to the for when history is the actual subject of the conversation.

[ubernoob]

For what it's worth, count, I never found you as distasteful as Kaelik, Ubernoob, et. al. You said crazy shit and went off on certain people, but for comprehensible reasons. You also contributed more to the gaming discussion aspect than the current generation of assclowns.

A thought on swearing, specifically the word "bitch." I agree that it can sometimes be a gender-neutral insult. However, when used specifically in the context of a discussion of sexism and feminism? Sorry, no. Context matters, and people's awareness of the historical slur-value of an insult comes to the for when history is the actual subject of the conversation.

FYI, Bitch was used before sexism was ever brought up.

[Maj]

So, unless you think that old people are constantly posting on Urban Dictionary this shows that bitch does still have some gender bias among young people.

Look at the definition ratings, though. Whether you go by number of votes or ratio of positive to negative (or a combination of the two), the first definition far outstrips all others, and it does not, in fact, include women.

However, I don't think that just using the term means you are deliberately being sexist.

I agree. But then, I don't happen to think that using words like matrix, matrimony, metropolis, or matter is sexist, either - despite their etymological links to the word "mother."

If you can't, I'm a feminist because the feminist movement is about treating women equally with men.

Oh, boy... Feminism is so many things. There are people who believe in equality of basic political rights (rights to vote, be drafted, equal pay, etc), and those like the separate feminists {OK, Wikipedia} who I think are horribly, horribly, horribly sexist.

While I think you're intention is in the right place with your post, you are messing with a disgusting can of worms.

I know that you take such things as personal attacks, because you are a whiny, insecure jerkoff, but actually, no, it wasn't a personal attack.

Wait... Are you saying that Kaelik's a bitch?

[Crissa]

the first definition far outstrips all others, and it does not, in fact, include women.

It also doesn't say it is specifically neutral, either.

I'm sure if you asked a hundred people what 'hysterical' meant, they wouldn't know that it's gendered, even though the root is based upon a false, sexist medical condition for women.

That people aren't informed is irrelevant to it being a sexist remark in context.

-Crissa

[Maj]

I'm sure if you asked a hundred people what 'hysterical' meant, they wouldn't know that it's gendered, even though the root is based upon a false, sexist medical condition for women.

I'm sorry, but using the term hysterical is hardly sexist. Just because its root is found in the Greek for uterus does not in any way mean that the word still carries gender connotations. At all. And people's ignorance of the word's history just removes all the more from any gender-based meaning it may have once had.

As a woman, I don't give a shit. Getting all up-in-arms about root word origins and such is ridiculous. Seriously... I'd have to give up a scientific classification of animal (mammal), the four states of physical existence (matter), and a graphite-based writing utensil (pencil).

That bullshit can go fuck right off. It trivializes true sexism and makes women look... Well... Hysterical.

[Crissa]

No, it's not founded in the greek for uterus. It's founded in the English for 'woman who doth protest too much'.

That's why you should probably not claim things aren't sexist without asking why. Just because you get along just fine being a second-class citizen without ever wondering why, does not mean it doesn't bother other people.

-Crissa

[Red_Rob]

So, unless you think that old people are constantly posting on Urban Dictionary this shows that bitch does still have some gender bias among young people.

Look at the definition ratings, though. Whether you go by number of votes or ratio of positive to negative (or a combination of the two), the first definition far outstrips all others, and it does not, in fact, include women.

My main point was that there is a sizable number of positive votes for female-only interpretations of the word on that page. It was just to point out that the statement "no-one thinks of women anymore when you say bitch" was inaccurate.

Honestly, I can see why Uber and Kaelik are objecting to being called sexist, as i doubt they intended their statements to be seen in that way, but a little conciliation that yes, bitch does have a gender-specific slant but that wasn't what was intended would have been nice and might have calmed things down a little.

But i guess giving an inch on an internet forum is a little too much to ask

[angelfromanotherpin]

No, it's not founded in the greek for uterus. It's founded in the English for 'woman who doth protest too much'.

That's why you should probably not claim things aren't sexist without asking why. Just because you get along just fine being a second-class citizen without ever wondering why, does not mean it doesn't bother other people.

-Crissa

Um, your own link says 'This theory is the source of the name, which stems from the Greek word for uterus, hystera (ὑστέρα).'

[Crissa]

No, it's not founded in the greek for uterus. It's founded iUm, your own link says 'This theory is the source of the name, which stems from the Greek word for uterus, hystera (ὑστέρα).'

Yes. A to B to C. But Maj says we can forget that B occurred because she's unaware of it.

C wouldn't exist without B.

Don't be stupid. Why the fuck would it be based upon uterus if it wasn't a gendered slur?

Go use one of the other words that isn't a gendered slur, they exist. There is no reason to keep this one.

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

Yes. A to B to C. But Maj says we can forget that B occurred because she's unaware of it.

C wouldn't exist without B.

There would be no B nor C without A.

Maj correctly picked the prime source of the word hysterical. Regardless, given the above, this statement is clearly wrong:

No, it's not founded in the greek for uterus

And yeah. You're in "hysterical" mode right now even by your usually bitchy standards.

Go use one of the other words that isn't a gendered slur, they exist. There is no reason to keep this one.

Lots of women I know think "emotional" is a slur specifically targetted towards them because... some women act crazy and it's an excuse used by some truly sexist men against them.

Honestly, I don't think all of those words are gender-free.

[Psychic Robot]

Uh...is Crissa actually arguing that the term "hysterical" is a slur?

[Zinegata]

Uh...is Crissa actually arguing that the term "hysterical" is a slur?

It seems to be the case. Or else she'd been wailing at Maj for no reason.

[Kaelik]

Uh...is Crissa actually arguing that the term "hysterical" is a slur?

This argument is hysterical. But maybe it's just because I'm watching a hysterical episode of the Daily Show at the same time as I read it?

[Lago PARANOIA]

The passage of time will neuter almost any wound or slur. And of course the fact exists that while a word or phrase may be ignorant or discriminatory if it's used often enough by people who don't mean to use it to hurt means that it'll eventually end up being neutered. I'm sure there are plenty of slurs that are forgotten or comical nowadays.

Is 'bitch' one of those? I'm going to have to say 'partly'. Bitch has a variety of meanings, many of them non-gendered. I can think of at least three. But the gendered meanings (that of an overbearing female or an effeminate man) are still being used. It's not like hysteria, where no one uses it today to describe female neurosis; it's used to describe general neurosis.

So Crissa in my opinion is overstating the sexistness of 'hysteria', even though that word had a deeply sexist origin that was used to justify maltreatment of women. But 'bitch'? That's a gray area. And I'm sorry to say this, but part of the risk of using words that are in in a meaning transition is that you have the accept the fact that some of the taint will rub off on you.

Denying this won't make it go away. Attacking Crissa for her overzealousness won't make it go away either. You're just going to have to grit your teeth and bare responsibility for the word. No one said that being a pottymouth was easy, so live with it.

[Zinegata]

The passage of time will neuter almost any wound or slur. And of course the fact exists that while a word or phrase may be ignorant or discriminatory if it's used often enough by people who don't mean to use it to hurt means that it'll eventually end up being neutered. I'm sure there are plenty of slurs that are forgotten or comical nowadays.

Is 'bitch' one of those? I'm going to have to say 'partly'. Bitch has a variety of meanings, many of them non-gendered. I can think of at least three. But the gendered meanings (that of an overbearing female or an effeminate man) are still being used. It's not like hysteria, where no one uses it today to describe female neurosis; it's used to describe general neurosis.

So Crissa in my opinion is overstating the sexistness of 'hysteria', even though that word had a deeply sexist origin that was used to justify maltreatment of women. But 'bitch'? That's a gray area. And I'm sorry to say this, but part of the risk of using words that are in in a meaning transition is that you have the accept the fact that some of the taint will rub off on you.

Denying this won't make it go away. Attacking Crissa for her overzealousness won't make it go away either. You're just going to have to grit your teeth and bare responsibility for the word. No one said that being a pottymouth was easy, so live with it.

But even Crissa has stated that I'm not being sexist when I call her a bitch.

So I don't think this is really overzealousness and just Crissa being really, really silly and getting hammered for it.

[Crissa]

PR, Kaelik, and Zinegata do not a 'hammer' make.

Maybe a squeaky one. Although that's overstating their humor value.

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

At least she didn't claim three guys hammering her was sexist.

For once.

[Kaelik]

At least she didn't claim three guys hammering her was sexist.

For once.

You mean two guys and a computer.

[Crissa]

At least she didn't claim three guys hammering her was sexist.

Well, if you put it that way...

...It's more disgusting than sexist.

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

At least she didn't claim three guys hammering her was sexist.

Well, if you put it that way...

...It's more disgusting than sexist.

-Crissa

I said you were getting hammered in general terms. You decided to name only two guys and one computer who was hammering you, when in fact it's a lot more people including one woman.

So congratulations for crafting your own disgusting mental images.

[Crissa]

It's called a joke, Zinegata. I tell them from time to time. I know some people don't notice them, but I still do try.

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

It's called a joke, Zinegata. I tell them from time to time. I know some people don't notice them, but I still do try.

-Crissa

And "At least she didn't call us sexist because she claimed three guys were hammering her" isn't a joke? .

[CatharzGodfoot]