The Archivist = Broken?

[Lago_AM3P]

Except spell research deals with new spells, not existing ones. If the existing spells had been meant to be cast by wizards, then it would be on the wizard spell list.

Ask clikml already posted:

Independent Research
A wizard also can research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one.

[Oberoni]

I guess if some of you want to convince yourself that the section about arcane magical writings applies to nonarcane magical writings, more power to you. I can in all seriousness see the logic, based on some murky wording in the PHB.

However, a lot of you are claiming that Wizards were meant to be able to learn cleric spells, it's just that WotC forgot to mention it or publish NPCs (barring some freakjob exception) with them in their spellbooks?

Lame.

[Username17]

I guess if some of you want to convince yourself that the section about arcane magical writings applies to nonarcane magical writings, more power to you.

It sure as heck better, otherwise the Archivist can't exist at all.

And that is what this thread is about - it's about whether the archivist has a reason to exist. If the Arcane Magical Writings section only applies to Arcane spells, then the Archivist can't have spells. If it applies to all magical writings, then the Wizard can do anything the Archivist can do better.

You can have it either way. But the basic point that the Wizard outshines the archivist still stands.

-Username17

[Lago_AM3P]

However, a lot of you are claiming that Wizards were meant to be able to learn cleric spells, it's just that WotC forgot to mention it or publish NPCs (barring some freakjob exception) with them in their spellbooks?

Lame.

You'll also notice that example characters never have custom-made spells, rarely have non-PHB spells other than that in that particular sourcebook.

[User3]

I can take a feat to learn an extra cleric spell as a sorcerer, but I can't research one as a wizard? WTF?

If wizards weren't intended to be able to cast spells off of any list, there would not be an "Extra Spell" feat.

[Oberoni]

The first part of that sentence is not connected to the second part.

p.s. a feat from a 'splatbook' as the kids call them is your backup?

[Oberoni]

1135130913[/unixtime]]

It sure as heck better, otherwise the Archivist can't exist at all.

And that is what this thread is about - it's about whether the archivist has a reason to exist. If the Arcane Magical Writings section only applies to Arcane spells, then the Archivist can't have spells.

I'll bite. Spell this one out. I don't see the connection.

[Username17]

1135137184[/unixtime]]

1135130913[/unixtime]]

It sure as heck better, otherwise the Archivist can't exist at all.

And that is what this thread is about - it's about whether the archivist has a reason to exist. If the Arcane Magical Writings section only applies to Arcane spells, then the Archivist can't have spells.

I'll bite. Spell this one out. I don't see the connection.

Archivists cast divine spells out of spell books. The rules for spell books are under... Arcane Magical Writings. So if those rules only apply to Arcane Spells, then everything that an Archivist learns goes into the book as an Arcane Spell, which she then wouldn't be able to cast.

Under the much more lenient interpretation that the rules under Arcane Magical Writing actually applies to all magical writing, the Archivist is allowed to actually use the text:

To record an arcane spell in written form, a character uses a complex notation that describes the magical forces involved in the spell. The writer uses the same system no matter what her native language or cultue. However, each character uses the system in her own way. Another person's magical writing remains incomprehensible to even the most powerful wizard until she takes the time to study and decipher it.

To decepher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in written form in another's spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell's level).

To decipher some fvcking spells. Otherwise she can't, because those are the only spellbook rules there are!

But of course, if make the requisite allowance for an Archivist to decipher another archivist's spellbook, then we've also made the allowance for a Wizard to do the same thing.

-Username17

[Crissa]

I'm confused.

Wizards have three basic mechanics for learning spells:
[*]Poof, you get new spells per level.
[*]You found them in a book or scroll.
[*]You spend time researching a spell.

While the first option says 'only from the list'...

...The other two options rather specifically don't say only from the list. They don't care. Both are at the complete control of the DM - in fact, if the DM doesn't rule 0 them into existance, they can't happen. They don't have any other mechanic other than 'The DM must place this spell in the campaign for the player to be able to use it.'

What's the argument here?

That some DM wants to get away with giving out scrolls, which are magical writings, but doesn't want them to be read by the class that has abilities which say, 'deciphers magical writings'? Sounds like someone's using rule 0 here, and it isn't Frank.

-Crissa