Mage: The Awakening

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Modesitt
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Mage: The Awakening

Post by Modesitt »

Summary: Mage: the Awakening is an order of magnitude better than Mage: the Ascension. It's still flawed, but much less so than before. It's worth at least borrowing from a friend.


The Good

  • The New World of Darkness system. It's better than the old one especially with a few minor changes here and there.
  • Crappy Groups No One Liked: Gone. The Technocracy(Totally gone), the Marauders(There's a schizophrenic in an expansion that is taught by what he claims are the voices in his head but it is left up to the ST how this work), the Nephandi(They're Awakened that fell off the wagon and have joined a 'Left-handed' legacy) - GONE. The Awakened are now organized like this: Your Path(You do not choose your path, your soul does, there are five), your Order(This is a club of like-minded Awakened that you join. There are 5 PC Orders and an NPC order), your Cabal(Your buddies), and your Legacy(Awakened PrCs, more on this in a bit).
  • Spellcasting doesn't suck. Remember how in Old Mage you had to get more successes at higher target numbers in order to accomplish things? No more! The difficulty of a spell has nothing to do with how high a level an Arcana you're using and everything to do with just how dramatic what you're trying to do is. You can use Life 2 to turn a redwood tree into a giant swarm of locusts or you could use Life 4 to make a tiger obey your every command and both take just one net success at a target number of 8.
  • There are no backgrounds that you have to take at char gen or you'll suck.
  • Paradox was pimp-slapped hard. No longer must you quiver in fear of casting vulgar effects in public. A starting level Awakened can just throw a fireball at a group of Sleepers and laugh. He'd have a Paradox dice pool of 3 or 4. The ST would roll that and get one success. Then the Awakened could choose to just take it as a box of bashing damage that would go away in 15 minutes. He'd add one more die to the pool for every Vulgar effect he did in that scene. Equally importantly is that Paradox is no longer something your GM just makes up to fuck with you. There's a chart you follow that is based on the number of successes you roll. To compensate, there are much harsher social penalties for casting spells in public and the Wisdom(Humanity) penalties for attacking or killing people with magic are harsh.
  • The setting is not about changing the world. It's suggested that it's much more likely the cabal will have some goal like "Make money" or "Kill the Seers of the Throne in our city" than "AWAKEN THE WORLD!"
  • Legacies. Legacies are Mage PrCs you join. You can only join one Legacy. The flavor is that you 'sculpt your soul'. If you do you get some cool powers that are either always on or don't cause paradox when you use them. They're a great way to make characters unique and different, to add opposition, or a number of other things. You get more powers as your Gnosis(Arete) gets bigger.
  • Crossover rules. Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage are all designed to work together seamlessly mechanically and kinda thematically. Automatic hatred is no longer the basic assumption of the World of Darkness. For example, it's suggested in the Werewolf book that if you're going on vacation you should get someone to watch your land, so why not ask the local vampire pack to watch your stuff? Or the Chicago citybook which a Mage, Vampire, OR Werewolf Storyteller could run.
  • Archmastery. The base rules go up to 5 but all of the Arcana have effects that only an Archmaster could do. It's nice that STs have very vague guidelines for implementing Archmastery into their games until the Archmastery book comes out. It's more likely that White Wolf is going to issue some big, hard-backed Epic Level World of Darkness book for Vampires, Werewolves, and Mages.
  • Speaking of Archmastery, high-end Mage effects were smacked on the nose. Running a game with a Master of one or more Arcana is no longer an exercise in futility because you're not supposed to be able to do ANYTHING you want with enough Arcana. A Master of Life can't permanently regenerate a finger nor could any Master conjure a nuclear bomb. Those are all examples of Archmastery(see above).
  • You can actually use the Spirit arcana with the core book. This is an improvement over 3rd edition Mage which, uh, FORGOT everything to do with the Gauntlet and other realms.


The Bad


  • The Backstory: You either hate it or don't care about it. It's a bunch of stuff about how magic was first organized on Atlantis and everyone believes this. Then they tried to build the Tower of Bab^h^h^hCelestial Tower to the Heavens and the world split apart into the Fallen, Supernal, and the Abyss etc, etc. You don't really care about this because it's something that only matters if its the entire focus of the campaign. If it is the focus of the campaign, then the Storyteller will need to make a lot of stuff up to make it work.
  • Arcana: There are now 10 Arcana(aka spheres). They're the same nine you know and love, plus Death. Death sucks ass because it has no theme beyond "Hahahaha I AM EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL HEAR ME ROAR!". You can control shadows and darkness, make zombies, steal souls, attack ghosts, jump into a spirit world, make ectoplasm attack people - Really, nothing you couldn't do with other Arcana in Old Mage. The only reason it exists is that they have taken some features from other Arcana and put them into Death.
  • Legacy Prereqs. Much like d20 PrCs they sometimes have prereqs with no connection to the Legacy itself and exist for no reason other than to force the PCs to waste experience points. What the hell do Brothers Grimm-style avenging cursing fairies have to do with the Space(Correspondence) Arcana?
  • Errata. The game has been out for six months and we still don't have any official errata. We have some developer commentary but nothing concrete. There are some serious errors that need errata or clarification.
  • Game-defining flavor being put into sourcebooks. The sourcebook Sanctum & Sigil completely changes a lot of the flavor dealing with cabals and requires a big retcon on your setting if you add it to an established game. I expect this pattern to continue with other sourcebooks.
  • Disposable Sleepwalkers. No explanation given for where they come from, where they get their training at, how they're found, or anything at all. They're a tacked-on feature that doesn't have any of the flavor of the vampire or werewolf equivalent(Ghouls and Wolf-blooded).
  • Organization. This isn't a criticism of Mage specifically but of the overall Vampire/Werewolf/Mage world. They're ALL organized in the exact same way. They all have five Orders, five Paths, legacies, and cabals. This is bland and flavorless.
  • The Cleric Archer was kinda-sorta nerfed. You can create a really bad-ass character who buffs himself with magic, he just can't do anything with magic once he's done so.


The Ugly

  • The Vulgar/Covert dichotomy is still inconsistent and requires a lot of GM arbitration. It needs to be replaced with some hard and fast rule like "If more Awakened than Sleepers see it it's covert. Otherwise it's vulgar" or "Any time you do magic within 100 feet of a Sleeper it's vulgar".
  • Relatedly, you are now rewarded for having an NPC Frank Trollman follow your cabal around. He should be able to look at things other Awakened that you don't like do and say "Please, a normal human being is physically incapable of doing that" or "A car could never turn like that". Yes, whether something is vulgar or not depends on how gullible and educated the Sleeper is.
  • Just about the most efficient way to undo Vulgar effects is to have a Sleeper with a Willpower of 10 stare at it.
  • Creative Thaumaturgy(Making up Spell effects). Remember how every Sphere had two or three pages describing in detail what it could do? New Mage has two pages to cover what ALL Arcana are capable of, then 14+ pages of rotes for each Arcana.
  • The Wisdom/Humanity system in Mage is total bullshit. I refuse to acknowledge any ethical system where stealing a candybar is WORSE than beating a man into a coma. Or that shooting someone is better than using Mind magic to make a man shoot someone. The entire thing must be scrapped and replaced.
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Re: Mage: The Awakening

Post by Username17 »

I only looked at it for a little while before my eyes glazed over. It's almost the size of the Vampire and Werewolf books together. And like the PHB, the extra space is all spells.

Or rather, it's spells plus the incoherent spontaneous magic rules that make us cry real tears. Mage seems to fall into the basic problem of so many spontaneous magic systems before it - being incomprehensible and having so many rules and examples that it's worse than just having no rules at all.

Still, Mage is playable as a pure-Rote system. If noone ever does any spontaneous anything it'll probably work out OK. It runs into serious dumpster diving problems - not all Rotes are created equal, those Rotes that are written are rarely done so in a manner that takes the interactions of such things into account, and more Rotes are published in hardback books and magazines on a continuous basis.

While Mage is nominally playable with Vampire, the power creep is basically too much to make that much of a game. It's not as bad as Mage: The Suicide Bombing, where a Mage only had to think to turn all attacking vampires into shaving cream - now it requires waving your arms around too. The systems aren't really compatible, they just use the same names for attributes.

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RandomCasualty
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Re: Mage: The Awakening

Post by RandomCasualty »

Honestly I thought they butchered the storyline. The original M:tA actually had a bunch of grey areas and a decent backstory. The awakening is a stupid black and white set up that totally lacks any of the flavor of the original. Basically you're just these merlin type wizards with a crappy basis for existing and some pointless enemies.

The war for reality and belief was more interesting IMO, despite a few thematic flaws. I actually thought the technocracy was way more interesting than the crap they have now. Now it's just white hats and black hats.

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Re: Mage: The Awakening

Post by Username17 »

RandomCasualty at [unixtime wrote:1139560404[/unixtime]]Honestly I thought they butchered the storyline. The original M:tA actually had a bunch of grey areas and a decent backstory. The awakening is a stupid black and white set up that totally lacks any of the flavor of the original. Basically you're just these merlin type wizards with a crappy basis for existing and some pointless enemies.

The war for reality and belief was more interesting IMO, despite a few thematic flaws. I actually thought the technocracy was way more interesting than the crap they have now. Now it's just white hats and black hats.


The "war for belief" was total crap, as it required you to ignore the fact that most people do believe in magic. Heck, the majority of the people don't believe in evolution or even that the Earth revolves around the Sun. And if for some strange reason people didn't believe in magic, the rules for Paradox pretty much fixed that wagon immediately. All a tradition mage has to do is attempt to do something big while an ass-tonne of sleepers are around and gravity runs backwards, the sky opens up with flame, and giant spider demons run amok. In short, even if the tradition mages fail to do magic, completely visible magic still happens. If the tradition mages are willing to die to win their war, they win it immediately.

That being said, I agree completely that the Technocracy was way more awesome than anything they got going now. In fact, I would say categorically that the Technocracy was more awesome than anything that they had going on in the original Ascension book. Actually, Mage worked so poorly conceptually that the only way it worked at all was if the players played members of the Technocracy, who were basically the good guys anyway.

Yeah, the Technocracy represent a world-view that is predictable and accessible by the masses. One that involves illness being curable, darkness being banishable, and monsters simply not existing. The Technocracy's paradigm is less "fun" for the mages, but it is much nicer and fairer to the rest of humanity than anything the traditions want to do. The traditions, by the definitions in that game world, are marauders, and the Technocracy are the heroes.

And if you played it from that point of view, the game was actually playable. The Order of Hermes wasn't willing to detonate themselves to win because their paradigm was visciously selfish. They were fighting to keep the light out of the hands of the unenlightened. There was no way that they'd accept personal sacrifices to accomplish their goal - that violated the whole point.

The game system was still cumbersome and shitty, but the game world was developed enough that once you realized that it was written from the point of view of the Taliban, it made a pretty cool background. You'd still be better off converting it to Shadowrun, but the Void Engineers and Progenitors were pretty cool hero organizations to be a part of.

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Re: Mage: The Awakening

Post by Neeek »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1139590106[/unixtime]]
All a tradition mage has to do is attempt to do something big while an ass-tonne of sleepers are around and gravity runs backwards, the sky opens up with flame, and giant spider demons run amok. In short, even if the tradition mages fail to do magic, completely visible magic still happens. If the tradition mages are willing to die to win their war, they win it immediately.


Ah yes the "Going all Paradox-y at the Super bowl = instant realignment for the world" problem.
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Re: Mage: The Awakening

Post by RandomCasualty »

Well, I always considered the rules for paradox to be so open ended that you could easily avoid problems like that. I mean the thing is that you didn't really know what was going to happen when you triggered a paradox burst, so the GM could just make something less visible if the mage did it around a lot of spectators, which thematically seems to fit, since their belief is crushing you out. So basically the mage goes into Quiet, or gets whisked off to a paradox realm when he goes out of sight of spectators or whatever.

I mean white wolf is full of weird stuff that promotes sleeper disbelief, like the delerium for werewolves. It's possible the mage just ceases to exist but sleepers don't even notice anything happened.

I mean with paradox you can more or less do whatever you want since the "rules" are just loose guidelines anyway.

And yeah, I've always thought the Technocracy was the good guys. The traditions always struck me as extremely selfish organizations. The technocracy was cool because it was a fundamentally good organization, but very overbearing and controlling. So on one side you could see Big Brother, but they also did more for helping humanity than the traditions ever did. Which makes them the coolest faction in any White wolf game.

I could see dropping the marauders, since they were just crazy stupid. But the technocracy should have stayed.
Modesitt
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Re: Mage: The Awakening

Post by Modesitt »

FrankTrollman wrote:That being said, I agree completely that the Technocracy was way more awesome than anything they got going now. In fact, I would say categorically that the Technocracy was more awesome than anything that they had going on in the original Ascension book.

In the abstract I completely agree with you. The Technocracy, post-Guide to the Technocracy, was really cool and not the faceless bad guys in the main book.

Unfortunately, I never actually saw it work. One major, one moderate, and one minor reason why.

1. Every time I've ever been in a Technocracy game it lacked themes more complex than your typical Werewolf game. The games always seemed like they'd be better off with Spycraft than Mage.

2. The whole Technocratic approach to magic/Hypertechnology always seemed so...alien to me. I just had a hard time wrapping my head around how the Technocratic worldview dealt with Devices, Foci, and so on.

3. I found it rather stressing that Buck Rogers was an important influence on the design of many magic items. Not a condemnation of the system so much as a critique of the writers and their fetish for making stupid-looking magic items.

---

Perhaps "...That no one liked" was too extreme. "A group I never saw used to its full potential" would have been a better way to put it.
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Re: Mage: The Awakening

Post by Desdan_Mervolam »

Frank wrote:The "war for belief" was total crap, as it required you to ignore the fact that most people do believe in magic. Heck, the majority of the people don't believe in evolution or even that the Earth revolves around the Sun. And if for some strange reason people didn't believe in magic, the rules for Paradox pretty much fixed that wagon immediately. All a tradition mage has to do is attempt to do something big while an ass-tonne of sleepers are around and gravity runs backwards, the sky opens up with flame, and giant spider demons run amok. In short, even if the tradition mages fail to do magic, completely visible magic still happens. If the tradition mages are willing to die to win their war, they win it immediately.


What you need to remember here is that no matter how much it resembled the real world, the World of Darkness was a fantasy world entirely seperate from our own. People actually don't nessissarily believe in magic as readily as they do IRL. In fact, the average WoD citizen seems to be a spineless sheep, readily accepting whatever pap the propaganda machines shovel out. Much like our real world, but moreso.

I can buy a war over the oppertunity to make people's minds up for them, no problem. What I can't get is a Reality that's so fickle that it has to anally rape wizards every time they want to stop The Terminator from knocking down their front door and turning their family into attractive leather clothing, and yet looks at 2000 year old vampires enslaving the minds of entire neighborhoods, raising undead armies to slay their enemies, and lifting buildings off their foundations and decides that that's perfectly alright.

On to your other point. I can totally dig people seeing the Technocracy as the good guys. They certainly weren't any less moral than the Traditions (Remember that the goal of the Ascention War was to push your particular worldview on as many people as absolutely possible, and the Technocracy is every single bit as guilty of this as everyone else.)

Of course, The World Of Darkness (Especally in the old version) had a grand tradtion of letting people play characters who were at best Anti-Heroes. Vampire featured characters who stole blood, usually without permission from other people, and who killed, maimed, mind-controlled and manipulated with little or no reprocussion; and Werewolf featured xenophobic ecoterrorists who hate you simply because you enjoy flush toilets and and the ability to get anywhere of consequence in less than a month. They tried to get around this, of course, by giving you enemies to point at and say "At least I'm not THAT bad" (Unfortunatly it didn't really work. The Sabbat, once you get past the street-level Lost Boys blood-orgies, you find that the Sabbat isn't very different from the Camarilla. And worse yet, Werewolf villians were at best crimped wholecloth from Captain Planet and the Planeteers. At worst, they crimpted whole cloth from bad 'edgy' Captain Planet fanfiction. I have a book that honestly and seriously proposes a secret society whose goal is making sure as many children get molested and abused as possible. I'm not even making this up.)

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Re: Mage: The Awakening

Post by Neeek »

Desdan_Mervolam at [unixtime wrote:1140050814[/unixtime]]
On to your other point. I can totally dig people seeing the Technocracy as the good guys. They certainly weren't any less moral than the Traditions (Remember that the goal of the Ascention War was to push your particular worldview on as many people as absolutely possible, and the Technocracy is every single bit as guilty of this as everyone else.)


I think Frank's point was that the Technocracy's worldview is objectively better for the masses than any of the Traditions. Their basic tenant is to make magic less magical, so everyone can use it. They empower everyone, rather than restricting power to a select few(specifically, themselves, in the cases of the various Traditions).


(Unfortunatly it didn't really work. The Sabbat, once you get past the street-level Lost Boys blood-orgies, you find that the Sabbat isn't very different from the Camarilla.


That's something that's always bothered me. The Sabbat doesn't adhere to the Masquerade, right?

Now, the point of the Masquerade is to prevent normal people from finding out about the existence of vampires. So, if the Sabbat, who control entire cities, don't follow the Masquerade, then what the fuck is the point of *any* vampire following it? It's not like the Sabbat are in isolated areas. They control like Mexico City, one of the largest population centers in the world. The Masquerade only works if nearly entire population follows it, and when it is broken, the MiBs or whomever come and wipe minds. With the existence of the Sabbat, that is pretty much impossible.


I have a book that honestly and seriously proposes a secret society whose goal is making sure as many children get molested and abused as possible. I'm not even making this up.)


That's somehow only mildly surprising.
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Re: Mage: The Awakening

Post by RandomCasualty »

Neeek at [unixtime wrote:1140056143[/unixtime]]
That's something that's always bothered me. The Sabbat doesn't adhere to the Masquerade, right?

Now, the point of the Masquerade is to prevent normal people from finding out about the existence of vampires. So, if the Sabbat, who control entire cities, don't follow the Masquerade, then what the fvck is the point of *any* vampire following it? It's not like the Sabbat are in isolated areas. They control like Mexico City, one of the largest population centers in the world. The Masquerade only works if nearly entire population follows it, and when it is broken, the MiBs or whomever come and wipe minds. With the existence of the Sabbat, that is pretty much impossible.


Yeah, the Sabbat was poorly thought out. Technically they didn't believe in the masquerade but they didn't go blatantly acknowledging their existence either since they sorta feared the repercussions of society.

Then again, they did all sorts of acts of mindless violence. You have to figure that at some point the vampire + technocracy propaganda machine covered up most of the Sabbat stuff since it occured all at night and probably with few witnesses.

I mean lets remember it's actually tough to fully prove the existence of a vampire. Sure you can see some guy get hit by bullets and survive, but it's possible he may have just been wearing a kevlar vest or just got lucky and the bullets missed his vital organs. Using mostof the mental disciplines doesn't really prove anything, and most minor feats of strength might be possible by some guy on PCP (or at least that's what most people are going to believe).

So what the stupid neonates do actually doesn't violate the masquerade all that much.

It's kind of a weak explanation, since all in all the Sabbat didn't seem to fit well, but I guess that's how it works.

I more or less viewed the Masquerade laws as yet another tool Camarilla elders used to oppress those under them.
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