Level Adjustments and not making any sense

[The_Matthew]

So, in a bout of boredom I decided to read over Savage Species and found out some interesting little tidbits about the LA rules. There are 3 core races that qualify for a +0 level adjustment...

I did some checking and here are the racial level adjustments according to Savage Species:
Human: +0 (only one feat, one theoretical skill bonus, nothing else)

Dwarf: +1 (3 skill bonuses, because Savage Species dosn't care if you get them all the time or not stonecunning kicks you right in the teeth)

Elf: +2 (3 skill bonuses, 4 bonus feats)

Half-Elf: +1(3 skill bonuses, even though they are only +1)

Half-Orc: +0 (While having an unbalanced bonus to attributes gives a level adjustment, having a penalty is no good.)

Halflings: +0 (They get tiny BS abilities that don't count, 3 skill bonuses that count for a +1, and are small which counts for a -1)

Gnome: -1 (Gnomes are small, which is -1. But they only get bonuses to 2 skills, thus don't get a +1 from it. They have bonuses similar to feats, but not any feats which actually means that they don't get a LA for them since their special bonuses can be reproduced by equivalent characters. They get spell-like abilities, but they are cantrips and not usable at-will, thus no LA. Thus Gnomes are the master race.)

Funny, isn't it?

[Fwib]

The SS rules on LA are a bit dodgy. Only the process given makes any sense to me - the specific things that give plusses seem odd.

I quite like http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/shadows/Han ... Lcalc.html for a guesstimate of ECL for a creature.

[Oberoni]

Almost everything I've read about Savage Species seems to indicate that the authors and playtesters have no real idea on how to properly value races and charge them appropriate ECL.

This is a tragedy, because that's one of the central aspects of the book. If you're WotC, and you notice that some employees have no idea how to balance non-core races, you probably shouldn't let them write the book about non-core races. Just a thought.

[Fwib]

True dat.

They write some rules on judging LA which seem quite sensible (compare to a similar character with no LA blah blah blah) and then they give us lots of stuff where the rules appear to have been thrown right out of the window, both too good (anthropomorphic baleen whale) and no-one-would-ever-take-it (several of the undead templates, not to mention the Vampire in core)

[Josh_Kablack]

1145204533[/unixtime]]Almost everything I've read about Savage Species seems to indicate that the authors and playtesters have no real idea on how to properly value races and charge them appropriate ECL.

Well, I've seen a couple claims that the authors were given guidelines which required making ECL intentionally punish unusual races, and for the most part the authors succeeded in that goal.

Still a tragedy though.

[Username17]

The process is crap too. Hit Dice plus abilities? That's insane. When a Monk gets high enough in level, they get SR of 1 + Level, is that level worth 2 levels somehow? (1 for a hit die and 1 for SR)

Soldarin's calculator is no better. Absolute SR? Regeneration?

Here's the deal on SR: You can essentially subtract your ECL from the SR to determine how effective it is. Remember, your SR is the DC of a level check. So SR 14 is worth precisely dick at level 13.

Here's the deal on Regeneration: if you have it at all, then the vast majority of encounters will not kill you. You take subdual damage from most attacks, and eventually it goes away. That's cool, but the actual hit points you regain is largely meaningless in any combat. Remember that even if you have Regeneration = Your Hit Dice, that's only a number of bonus hit points in any battle equal to having an extra point of Con Bonus.

Here's the deal on Fast Healing: Even Fast Healing 1 is often going to completely heal you between encounters (600 hit points an hour and all that), but again, it takes a huge amount of Fast Healing to even be the equal of having some extra Constitution.

These abilities scale down in importance as your level increases - Not only do more enemies have bullshit that bypasses your powers, but also the raw number is directly proportional to your level. Regeneration 6 is a god damned joke at 20th level.

And that's why none of those ECL calculators are ever going to work.

-Username17

[Fwib]

Most battles might be quick, but assuming that every single one takes 1 round is a bit much.

Certainly there are abilities that become much weaker with level, and there are abilities that stay good - that needs to be factored in - my DM generally lets people buy off LA when he judges it sensible.

Of course, that doesnt help much for the templates and raves that never get taken becasue their LA sucks - and persuading him to round them down is hard - becasue he doesn't want to do the hard thinking to allocate a new one.

[Zherog]

1145209506[/unixtime]] Well, I've seen a couple claims that the authors were given guidelines which required making ECL intentionally punish unusual races, and for the most part the authors succeeded in that goal.

Still a tragedy though.

Didn't Rich Redman admit that one of his directives was to make monsters suck as characters?

[Oberoni]

[counturl=35]Shazam![/counturl]

[Crissa]

That book made me cry.

Like I tried to point out on the Wizards boards (and then gave up), most of the things they counted as abilities or whatnot for costing multiple LEVELS were duplicatable by a single level of WARRIOR.

Bah.

If a Level 1 Gnome or Human Warrior (by the book) has more bonuses than your LeveL 4 Centaur...

...Your system fails miserably.

-Crissa