Summoning made eaz-- Well not really.

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Thoth_Amon
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Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Summoning made eaz-- Well not really.

Post by Thoth_Amon »

OK.

Summoning confuses me...

I can never really understand what I am allowed to summon...

Here is the Summoning level listed in each of the guides (and the handy Dragon Magazine 302 with alternate lists and awkward directions on how to modify existing lists...)

I will include Level, name, alignment, source material, page number (after I thought it would be a good idea to track page numbers), If it was from the 302 dragon and if they changed its spot from one level to another in that source, CR, HP, and AC... (In my list I also include saves, immunities, attacks, and special attacks, but it is too much for this screen)


Code: Select all

[br]SM Lvl Name                                   AL    Src   Pg   302 Mag  CR    HP    AC[br]1      (Guide is less than 1 CR)[br]1      Aasimar (planetouched)                 G     MM    209  *        1/2   4     16[br]1      Celestial dog (animal)                 LG    MM    271           1/3   6     15[br]1      Bariaur                                CG    MoP   161  *        1/2   4     15[br]1      Celestial badger (animal)              CG    MM    268           1/3   6     15[br]1      Air Gensai (planetouched)              N     MoF   71   *        1/2   4     13[br]1      Earth Gensai (planetouched)            N     MoF   71   *        1/2   8     16[br]1      Fire Gensai (planetouched)             N     MoF   72   *        1/2   4     13[br]1      Water Gensai (planetouched)            N     MoF   72   *        1/2   5     12[br]1      Tiefling (planetouched)                E     MM    209  *        1/2   4     15[br]1      Fiendish dire rat                      LE    MM    64            1/3   5     15[br]1      Fiendish hawk (animal)                 CE    MM    273           1/3   4     17[br][br]2      (Guide is CR 1)[br]2      Celestial eagle (animal)               CG    MM2                 1/2   5     14[br]2      Worker (formian)                       LN    MM    108  * (SMI)  1/2   5     17[br]2      Ether Scarab                           N     MM2[br]2      Varoot (nerra)                         N     FF    130           1     5     15[br]2      Lemure (devil)                         LE    MM    57   *        1     9     13[br]2      Fiendish squid (animal)                LE    MM    281           1     13    16[br]2      Fiendish wolf (animal)                 LE    MM    283           1     13    14[br]2      Bladeling                              LN/LE MM2        *[br]2      Githzerai                              N     MM    176  *        1     4     17[br]2      Githyanki                              E     MM    174  *        1     5     16[br]2      Fiendish shark, Medium-size (animal)   NE    MM    279           1     16    15[br]2      Kaorti                                 NE    FF    108           1     9     18[br]2      Fiendish viper (animal)Tiny            CE    MM    281           1/3   1     17[br]2      Fiendish hyena (animal)                CE    MM    274           1     13    14[br]2      Fiendish octopus (animal)              CE    MM    276           1     9     16[br]2      Zenythri (planetouched)                L     MM2        *[br]2      Chaond (planetouched)                  C     MM2        *[br][br]3      (Guide is CR 2)[br]3      Celestial bear, black (animal)         LG    MM    269           2     19    13[br]3      Celestial bison (animal)               NG    MM    269           3     37    13[br]3      Triton                                 NG    MM    245  * (SMV)  4     16    16[br]3      Celestial dire badger                  CG    MM    62            2     35    16[br]3      Azer                                   LN    MM    21   *        2     11    19[br]3      Air Elemental, Small                   N     MM    95   *        1     9     17[br]3      Earth Elemental, Small                 N     MM    95   *        1     11    17[br]3      Fire Elemental, Small                  N     MM    95   *        1     9     15[br]3      Water Elemental, Small                 N     MM    95   *        1     11    17[br]3      Ice Paraelemental, Small               N     MoP        *[br]3      Magma Paraelemental, Small             N     MoP        *[br]3      Ooze Paraelemental, Small              N     MoP        *[br]3      Smoke Paraelemental, Small             N     MoP        *[br]3      Stone Spike                            N     MM2        *[br]3      Thoqqua                                N     MM    242  *        2     16    18[br]3      Bacchae                                CN    FF    18            2     13    16[br]3      Fiendish dire weasel                   LE    MM    65            2     13    16[br]3      Fiendish gorilla (animal)              LE    MM    268           3     26    14[br]3      Fiendish snake, constrictor (animal)   LE    MM    279           2     16    15[br]3      Fiendish boar                          NE    MM    270           2     22    16[br]3      Fiendish dire bat                      NE    MM    62            3     30    20[br]3      Fiendish lizard, giant (animal)        NE    MM    274           2     22    15[br]3      Salamander, Small                      NE    MM    218  *        2     16    19[br]3      Fiendish shark, Large (animal)         NE    MM    279           3     38    15[br]3      Abyssal maw (demon)                    CE    MM2        *[br]3      Abyssal skulker (demon)                CE    MM2        *[br]3      Dretch (demon)                         CE    MM    42   *        2     9     16[br]3      Fiendish viper, Small snake (animal)   CE    MM    281           1/3   4     17[br]3      Fiendish crocodile (animal)            CE    MM    271           2     22    15[br]3      Fiendish leopard (animal)              CE    MM    274           2     19    15[br]3      Fiendish wolverine (animal)            CE    MM    283           2     25    14[br]3      Fey'ri (planetouched)                  CE    MoF   73   *        2     3     15[br]3      Tanarukk (planetouched)                CE    MoF   73   *        2     22    15[br][br]4      (Guide is CR 3)[br]4      Lantern archon (celestial)             LG    MM    16   * (SMIII)2     4     15[br]4      Cervidal (celestial)                   NG    MM2        *[br]4      Giant owl                              NG    MM    205           3     26    15[br]4      Giant eagle                            CG    MM    93            3     26    15[br]4      Celestial lion (animal)                CG    MM    274           4     32    15[br]4      AOA Droplet                            N     FF    15            3     22    22[br]4      Arrowhawk, Small                       N     MM    19   *        3     16    20[br]4      Ephemera, duskbeast                    N     MoP   170  *        3     44    15[br]4      Ice Serpent                            N     MoF   62   *        3     45    16[br]4      Kalareem (nerra)                       N     FF    128           3     19    18[br]4      Tojanida, Small                        N     MM    243  *        3     19    22[br]4      Xorn, Small                            N     MM    260  *        3     19    23[br]4      Magmin                                 CN    MM    179  *        3     9     14[br]4      Advespa (devil)                        LE    MM2        *[br]4      Bloodbag Imp                           LE    FF    98            3     37    14[br]4      Euphoric Imp                           LE    FF    99            3     18    17[br]4      Filth Imp                              LE    FF    100           2     15    15[br]4      Imp (devil)                            LE    MM    56   * (SMIII)2     13    18[br]4      Fiendish dire ape                      LE    MM    62            4     32    15[br]4      Fiendish dire wolf                     LE    MM    65            4     45    14[br]4      Hell hound                             LE    MM    151  *        3     22    16[br]4      Firebat                                NE    MM2        *[br]4      Skeroloth (yugoloth)                   NE    FF    197           3     22    20[br]4      Varguouille                            NE    MM    254  * (SMIII)2     5     12[br]4      Abyssal Ravager (Demon)                CE    MM2        *[br]4      Fiendish viper, Medium-size snake (animCE    MM    281           1     9     16[br]4      Howler                                 CE    MM    154  *        3     39    17[br]4      Skulvyn (demon)                        CE    FF    54            4     26    18[br][br]5      (Guide is CR 4-5)[br]5      Celestial bear, brown (animal)         LG    MM    269           5     51    15[br]5      Hound archon (celestial)               LG    MM    16   *        4     33    19[br]5      Celestial orca, whale                  NG    MM    282           7     85    16[br]5      Lupinal (celestial)                    NG    MM2        *[br]5      Celestial pegasus (animal)             CG    MM    206           4     34    14[br]5      Celestial dire lion                    CG    MM    63            7     60    15[br]5      Warrior (formian)                      LN    MM    108  * (SMIV) 3     26    18[br]5      Mercane                                LN    MM2        *[br]5      Arrowhawk, Medium-size                 N     MM    19   *        5     38    21[br]5      Air Elemental, Medium                  N     MM    95   *        3     26    18[br]5      Earth Elemental, Medium                N     MM    95   *        3     30    18[br]5      Fire Elemental, Medium                 N     MM    95   *        3     26    16[br]5      Water Elemental, Medium                N     MM    95   *        3     30    19[br]5      Energon, Xag-ya                        N     MoP   169  *        5     27    17[br]5      Energon, Xag-yi                        N     MoP   169  *        5     27    17[br]5      Air Mephit                             N     MM    180           3     13    17[br]5      Dust Mephit                            N     MM    180           3     13    17[br]5      Earth Mephit                           N     MM    180           3     19    16[br]5      Fire Mephit                            N     MM    180           3     13    16[br]5      Ice Mephit                             N     MM    180           3     13    18[br]5      Magma Mephit                           N     MM    180           3     13    16[br]5      Ooze Mephit                            N     MM    180           3     19    16[br]5      Salt Mephit                            N     MM    180           3     19    16[br]5      Steam Mephit                           N     MM    180           3     13    16[br]5      Water Mephit                           N     MM    180           3     19    16[br]5      Ice Paraelemental, Medium              N     MoP        *[br]5      Magma Paraelemental, Medium            N     MoP        *[br]5      Ooze Paraelemental, Medium             N     MoP        *[br]5      Smoke Paraelemental, Medium            N     MoP        *[br]5      Sylph                                  N     MM2        *[br]5      Tojanida, Medium-size                  N     MM    243  *        5     45    23[br]5      Abishai, black                         LE    MoF   12   *        5     32    17[br]5      Abishai, white                         LE    MoF   12   *        5     26    16[br]5      Achaierai                              LE    MM    9    *        5     39    20[br]5      Fiendish griffon                       LE    MM    139           5     59    17[br]5      Fiendish snake, giant constrictor (animLE    MM    279           7     60    15[br]5      Durzagon (half-fiend)                  LE    MM2        *[br]5      Marrash                                LE    MM2        *[br]5      Spinagon (devil)                       LE    MoP        *[br]5      Yeth hound                             NE    MM    260  * (SMIV) 3     19    20[br]5      Fiendish dire boar                     NE    MM    63            5     52    15[br]5      Fiendish rhinoceros (animal)           NE    MM    278           6     76    16[br]5      Salamander, Medium-size                NE    MM    218  *        5     38    18[br]5      Shadow mastiff                         NE    MM    222  *        5     30    14[br]5      Fiendish viper, Large (animal)         CE    MM    281           2     13    15[br]5      Quasit (demon)                         CE    MM    46   * (SMIV) 3     13    18[br]5      Fiendish dire wolverine                CE    MM    66            5     42    16[br]5      Fiendish giant crocodile (animal)      CE    MM    271           5     59    16[br]5      Fiendish tiger (animal)                CE    MM    281           5     45    14[br]5      Fiendish girallon                      CE    MM    126           6     52    16[br]5      Draegloth (half-fiend)                 CE    MoF   59   *        5     39    16[br]5      Jovoc (demon)                          CE    MM2        *[br]5      Myrlochar                              CE    MoF   66   *        4     33    16[br]5      Yochol (demon)                         CE    MoF   34   *        5     33    12[br][br]6      (Guide is CR 6-7)[br]6      Celestial dire bear                    LG    MM    62            9     102[br]6      Celestial unicorn                      CG    MM    249           4     42    18[br]6      Winged Warrior (formian)               LN    FF    78            6     39    19[br]6      Air Elemental, Large                   N     MM    95   *        5     60    20[br]6      Earth Elemental, Large                 N     MM    95   *        5     68    18[br]6      Fire Elemental, Large                  N     MM    95   *        5     60    18[br]6      Water Elemental, Large                 N     MM    95   *        5     68    20[br]6      Ice Paraelemental, Large               N     MoP        *[br]6      Magma Paraelemental, Large             N     MoP        *[br]6      Ooze Paraelemental, Large              N     MoP        *[br]6      Smoke Paraelemental, Large             N     MoP        *[br]6      Rast                                   N     MM    213  * (SMV)  5     25    15[br]6      Sillt (Nerra)                          N     FF    129           6     45    21[br]6      Xorn, Medium-size                      N     MM    260  *        6     45    22[br]6      Slaad, mud                             CN    FF    157           6     39    16[br]6      Slaad, red                             CN    MM    228  *        7     52    16[br]6      Chaos beast                            CN    MM    33   *        7     44    16[br]6      Abishai, blue                          LE    MoF   13   *        7     52    20[br]6      Abishai, green                         LE    MoF   13   *        6     45    19[br]6      Amnizu (devil)                         LE    MM2        *[br]6      Barbazu (devil)                        LE    MM    52   *        7     33    17[br]6      Erinyes (devil)                        LE    MM    54   *        7     33    20[br]6      Bezekira (devil) (a.k.a. Hellcat)      LE    MM    54   *        7     52    14[br]6      Kyton (devil) (a.k.a. Chain Devil)     LE    MM    53   *        6     44    18[br]6      Belker                                 NE    MM    27   *        6     38    22[br]6      Canoloth  (yugoloth)                   NE    MoP        *[br]6      Mezzoloth (yugoloth)                   NE    MoP        *[br]6      Fiendish viper, Huge snake (animal)    CE    MM    281           4     22    15[br]6      Armanite (demon)                       CE    MoP        *[br]6      Uridezu (demon)                        CE    MoP        *[br]6      Breathdrinker                                MM2        *[br]6      Dao (genie)                                  MoP        *[br]6      Nishruu                                      MoF   67   *        6     70    9[br][br]7      (Guide is CR 8-9)[br]7      Movanic Deva                           G     FF    57            9     39    22[br]7      Avoral guardinal (celestial)           NG    MM    141  *        9     38    21[br]7      Celestial elephant (animal)            NG    MM    272[br]7      Djinni (genie)                         CG    MM    114  * (SMV)  5     45    16[br]7      Armadon (formian)                      LN    FF    76            8     68    25[br]7      Arrowhawk, Large                       N     MM    19   *        8     112   22[br]7      Air Elemental, Huge                    N     MM    95   *        7     136   21[br]7      Earth Elemental, Huge                  N     MM    95   *        7     152   18[br]7      Fire Elemental, Huge                   N     MM    95   *        7     136   19[br]7      Water Elemental, Huge                  N     MM    95   *        7     152   21[br]7      Ice Paraelemental, Huge                N     MoP        *[br]7      Magma Paraelemental, Huge              N     MoP        *[br]7      Ooze Paraelemental, Huge               N     MoP        *[br]7      Smoke Paraelemental, Huge              N     MoP        *[br]7      Ravid                                  N     MM    213  * (SMV)  5     16    25[br]7      Tojanida, Large                        N     MM    243  *        9     127   24[br]7      Xorn, Large                            N     MM    260  *        8     127   22[br]7      Invisible stalker                      N     MM    160  * (SMVI) 7     52    17[br]7      Ferrumach (rilmani)                    N     FF    143           9     108   30[br]7      Slaad, blue                            CN    MM    228  *[br]7      Slaad, green                           CN    MM    228  *[br]7      Hamatula (devil)                       LE    MM    51   *        8     49    22[br]7      Malebranche (devil)                    LE    MM2        *[br]7      Narzugon (devil)                       LE    MM         *[br]7      Osyluth (devil) (a.k.a. Bone Devil)    LE    MM    52   * (SMVI) 6     32    17[br]7      Piscoloth (yugoloth)                   NE    FF    196           9     58    24[br]7      Bebilith (demon)                       CE    MM    42   *        9     102   25[br]7      Fiendish dire tiger                    CE    MM    65[br]7      Fiendish octopus, giant (animal)       CE    MM    276[br]7      Palrethee (demon)                      CE    MM2        *[br]7      Zovvut (demon)                         CE    MM2        *[br]7      Dune Stalker                                 MM2        *[br]7      Ephemera, ecalypse                           MoP        *[br]7      Galeb Duhr                                   MM2        *[br]7      Efreeti (genie)                        LE    MM    114  *        8     65    18[br]7      Marid (genie)                                MoP        *[br]7      Glimmerskin                                  MM2        *[br]7      Immoth                                       MM2        *[br]7      Vaporighu                                    MM2        *[br][br]8      (Guide is CR 10-11)[br]8      Firre (celestial)                            MoP        *[br]8      Lillend                                CG    MM    168  * (SMVI) 7     45    17[br]8      Myrmarch (formian)                     LN    MM    108  *        10    102   28[br]8      Taskmaster  (formian)                  LN    MM    108  * (SMVI) 7     39    19[br]8      Janni (genie)                          N     MM    114  * (SMV)  4     33    18[br]8      Air Elemental, Greater                 N     MM    95   *        9     178   26[br]8      Earth Elemental, Greater               N     MM    95   *        9     199   20[br]8      Fire Elemental, Greater                N     MM    95   *        9     178   24[br]8      Water Elemental, Greater               N     MM    95   *        9     199   22[br]8      Ice Paraelemental, Greater             N     MoP        *[br]8      Magma Paraelemental, Greater           N     MoP        *[br]8      Ooze Paraelemental, Greater            N     MoP        *[br]8      Smoke Paraelemental, Greater           N     MoP        *[br]8      Slaad, gray                            CN    MM    228  *[br]8      Cornugon (devil) (a.k.a. Horned Devil) E     MM    55   *        10    82    25[br]8      Barghest, Medium-size                  LE    MM    22   * (NA)   4     33    18[br]8      Maelephant                             LE    FF    120           10    60    20[br]8      Fiendish squid, giant (animal)         LE    MM    281           11    66    17[br]8      Salamander, Large                      NE    MM    218  * (SMVII)9     112   18[br]8      Marraenoloth (yugoloth)                NE    MM2        *[br]8      Yagnoloth (yugoloth)                   NE    MM2        *[br]8      Succubus (demon)                       CE    MM    47   * (SMVII)9     33    20[br][br][br]9      (Guide is CR 12-13)[br]9      Monadic Deva                           G     FF    56            12    95    25[br]9      Lammasu                                LG    MM    165           8     59    14[br]9      Leonal (celestial)                           MoP        *[br]9      Couatl                                 LG    MM    37   * (SMVIII10    58    15[br]9      Astral deva (celestial)                NG    MM    11            14    102   29[br]9      Ghaele eladrin (celestial)             CG    MM    94   *        13    65    25[br]9      Observer (formian)                     LN    FF    77            8     68    25[br]9      Air Elemental, Elder                   N     MM    95   *        11    204   27[br]9      Earth Elemental, Elder                 N     MM    95   *        11    228   22[br]9      Fire Elemental, Elder                  N     MM    95   *        11    204   25[br]9      Water Elemental Elder                  N     MM    95   *        11    228   23[br]9      Ice Paraelemental, elder               N     MoP        *[br]9      Magma Paraelemental, elder             N     MoP        *[br]9      Ooze Paraelemental, elder              N     MoP        *[br]9      Smoke Paraelemental, elder             N     MoP        *[br]9      Cuprilach (rilmani)                    N     FF    142           12    114   32[br]9      Slaad, death                           CN    MM    228  *[br]9      Barghest, Greater                      LE    MM    23   * (SMV)  5     67    20[br]9      Xill                                   LE    MM    259  * (SMVI) 6     32    20[br]9      Rakshasa                               LE    MM    211  * (SMVII)9     52    21[br]9      Gelugon (devil) (a.k.a. Ice Devil)     LE    MM    56   *        13    114   28[br]9      Farastu (demodand)                     NE    FF    42            11    71    25[br]9      Night hag                              NE    MM    193  * (SMVII)[br]9      Nightmare                              NE    MM    194  * (SMV)[br]9      Nycaloth (yugoloth)                    NE    MoP        *[br]9      Vrock (demon)                          CE    MM    48   *        13    60    25[br]9      Jarilith (demon)                       CE    MM2        *[br]9      Ghour (demon)                          CE    MoF   33   *        12    114   21[br]9      Goristro (demon)                       CE    MoP        *[br]9      Wastrilith (demon)                     CE    FF    54            17    127   25[br]9      Ethereal Slayer                              MM2        *[br][br]


Note. As best I can tell, none of the MMIII monsters include this type of info. So this may be a bit screwy or only be 3.0 useful which blows for my games...) And it is kinda lame to boot since I like the MMIII.

I am interested in seeing how various people houserule Summoning. I was trying to decide if it would be cool to be a summoner, but if you are really restricted to a single monster per level you would really not be very useful as a summoning specialist. Additional feats is one thing and there are a few that are useful already...

So, open season...

TA
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Summoning made eaz-- Well not really.

Post by Username17 »

That is indeed the 3rd edition summon monster list with the extra monsters that the Manual of the Planes, the Monster Manual 2, and the Fiend Folio says you can summon. It doesn't specify that you can summon an Arrow Demon with SM 7 (though I don't know why you'd care), nor does it have the slight rearrangement of the basic Monster Manual list that came with the 3.5 PHB.

Summon Monster is overall a fairly lame tactic, but is actually fairly competitive for a Cleric. You take the Summoning Domain and then you summon monsters. Woot.

-Username17
Book
Apprentice
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Summoning made eaz-- Well not really.

Post by Book »

Chopping down the summon casting time from 1 Round to 1 Standard Action is a good thing to strive for. Customized Metamagic Rods of Rapid Spell (Comp. Divine feat) can accomplish this without lessening the size/oomph of your summoned monster. Reducing casting time also stops the annoying ease-of-interruption that foes like to harrass you with while you are summoning.

I see no reason why a "rapid summoning" feat could not be created (many D20 books already have it) that accomplishes the same task. Shifter Druids have an alternate class feature (RoE?) that allows them to do this as well with SNA spells.

The Planar Handbook has some important feats that let you customize your own summoning table. Although I have no problems allowing conscientious players to devise such things *without* the feat.

Wizard Incantatrix and Divine Metamagic Clerics can both be structured to cheaply summon monsters with the Repeat Spell metamagic feat. Which doubles your summon monster output without the hassle of lessened quality from the feat's level adjustment.

Shalantha's Delicate Disk (LEof) is a nice spell to keep up to a SM-V spell around for a quick 1-standard action release of an emergency combatant. 200gp is a small price to pay for such a thing.

Contingency spell and the Thaumaturge's (DMG) Summoning Contingency class ability are also quick ways to get summoned monsters into combat fast.

If your cleric/druid likes to summon, be sure to coordinate the wizard's Haste spell to be cast once a summonee is on the field. You get more bang for the buck this way. I especially like to do this with monsters that get just 1 kick-ass attack per round normally (like the Dire Wolf).
User3
Prince
Posts: 3974
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Re: Summoning made eaz-- Well not really.

Post by User3 »

If you really want to be a pro with "summon"-type spells, you want to be a druid (of course) of the Shifter race, with (at least) the first racial substitution level. Which eventually (effectively) applies Rapid Spell to all your SNAs.

And of course you use the crazy Greenbound Summoning and the not so (but still a bit) crazy Rashemi Elemental Summoning feats.
Book
Apprentice
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Summoning made eaz-- Well not really.

Post by Book »

Looking at the SM9 list ... it's really retarded to see a power spectrum that includes the Greater Barghest (CR 5) and Xill (CR 6) on one end.

And a CR 17 Wastrilith on the other.

Yeah, Wasty has a little drawback to it, but not one that is insurmountable. Still, the diametrically opposed power balance in that list and some of the others shows that SM list game mechanics could use some serious work.

Note, in all my years of playing 3.X, I've yet to see any "broken" builds or game mechanics in the summoning arena (besides Greendbound Summoning). Or anything close to it. I see no problems with perhaps exploring some minor power-ups in the summoning spells arena.
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