Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

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Save_versus_Stupid
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Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Save_versus_Stupid »

So apparently I have a hard on for magic sword characters.

I crunched the numbers on the two gish builds i've researched, and the 1F/6S/5Sw/8Ek one ends up with +17 BaB and a 16 caster level, while the 2F/4S/5Ss/9EK ends up with a +18 BaB and a 15 caster level. I realize the sorcerer levels could be wizard, but I think this type of character benefits from the sorcerer more with arcane strike.

The end result of a 20th level duskblade is +20 BaB, 20 caster levels, I guess, and access to a gimped list up to 5th level with some random higher level spells thrown in.

I really don't see any reason to play a duskblade instead of the other builds, assuming your race negates the multiclass exp penalty.

The duskblade seems to get the ability to channel touch spells at will, scaling up to full attacks while the gish can channel anything, up to 3 times a day. The duskblade also seems to have better HD over the Gish. Gish gets fighter bonus feats, duskblade gets combat casting. :(

The duskblade ignores medium armor and shields, while the Gish ignores anything you want to coupled with mithril armor. I also see the duskblade making better use of arcane strike due to his millions of spells per day.

What I do find mildy interesting is the fact your fighter level(s) can be be swapped out for duskblade ones, giving you more bad spells and the ability to channel stuff through single attacks at will. But i'm not sure that's relevant, as i'm not 100% confident in my D&D crunching skills yet.

So what say you guys? I don't think I missed anything the classes offer over the other.


And while I have you here, I have a sinking feeling the Spellsword's channel ability allows him to target one single creature with the likes of acid fog, or anti magic field for the spell's duration. Has this been ruled on before or am I missing something?

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erik
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by erik »

I think you're in the right on the channel spell for spellswords- though many channeled spells would make no sense. I'm not sure the uberness of chanelling spells is worth a couple caster levels even with that.

A 5-Spellsword can still only wear medium mithral armor without any spell failure (has 5% SF with mithral full plate).

There have been a few threads here on arcane sword-users. Depending upon spell/feat abilities, different builds gain promise.

For example, Wraithstrike spell is the bee's knees. Getting martial weapon profs without having to take a fighter level is a handy shortcut to EK.

Something to consider in building a character. How high a level do you feel you're really likely to play to? The highest I've ever hit from level 1 on was 12. The game often runs off the rails at high levels and my groups often tacticly agree to just start anew by that point.

If you want to be sword-channeling stuff out the gates, then it sounds like the Duskblade is the way to go (be advised, I haven't read the class yet). The ability to channel 3rd level spells as a move equivalent action will only become available to your Spellsword around character level 10-11, channeling 4th level spells will come at levels 11 and 13.

I'm focusing on the channeling, since it seems if you weren't focused on it as well, you would have just ignored levels 2-5 of spellsword outright, as I always do.

I'd say that being the case, a Duskblade seems to suit your needs much better. This is largely contingent on their spell list not being utterly inferior, since I haven't had a chance to go over it yet.

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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Save_versus_Stupid »

"Something to consider in building a character. How high a level do you feel you're really likely to play to? The highest I've ever hit from level 1 on was 12. The game often runs off the rails at high levels and my groups often tacticly agree to just start anew by that point."

I agree entirely. A lot of the theory is irrelevant once people start having 9th level spells and doing hundreds of damage with physical attacks.

"For example, Wraithstrike spell is the bee's knees. Getting martial weapon profs without having to take a fighter level is a handy shortcut to EK."

Is there a way to do so? When I was researching the options available to a would-be magic sword character, I didn't find anything like that. That's the first thing I tried to find, armor and weapon "package" feats.

"I'm focusing on the channeling, since it seems if you weren't focused on it as well, you would have just ignored levels 2-5 of spellsword outright, as I always do."

Yep. I know there are better ways to tweak your guy into higher caster levels and a respectable BaB but I had approached building these characters with a "mostly fighter, sorta mage in mind" - and then the duskblade comes out. Rest assured though, it's spell list is pretty gimped. It has some neat low level dimension travel spells early on, but the majority of it's list is either weapon buffs or direct damage.

Which is fine, but you do miss out on some useful battlefield control stuff that would assist a fighter more than direct damage at times.





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Essence
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Essence »

The easiest way to get all martial weapon profs at low level is to be an Outsider, using one of the "I'm an Outsider" feats. Getting the armor profs, which I don't remember if you actually need, is a lot harder.

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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by dbb »

Note that unless your DM has already been exposed to the idea, you are likely to encounter significant resistance to the idea that being an Outsider grants you weapon proficiencies. I'm not saying that it's wrong, I'm just saying you should be prepared for your DM to kick up a fuss.

The Militia regional feat, from Forgotten Realms, gives you all martial weapons for one feat.

As I recall, you need the Armor proficiencies for Spellsword but not for EK.

--d.
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by User3 »

A level of Dragon Slayer is the other common way to get martial weapon profs.

Armor profs are often unnecessary since Spellsword blows and you can get armors with -0 armor check penalty, or just use Master's Touch.
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Book »

If I am reading this right, you may be able to get a krazy kombo out of Duskblade's Dimension Hop spell (on his spell list) and the Telflammar Shadowlord's Shadow Pounce class ability. Just "channel spell" a Dimension Hop on your last attack in a full attack sequence on *yourself* (autohit as you voluntary botch the save). And then rinse and repeat multiple full attack sequences on your current target until it's dead.

It's a weird pairing of Duskblade and T. Shadowlord ... but interesting nonetheless. A Duskblade already has a ton of spell slots for your D-Hop addiction. And this little gambit gets even more succulent with a Ring of Wizardry on hand.

If there are any rules irregularities on my use of D-Hop, just holler. :)
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by mean_liar »

Why does the Spellsword show up in Gish builds when Havoc Mages seem to do better? Is it the access to reduced ASF that makes it so attractive?
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Lago_AM3P »

In fact, I'm not even sure why swording mages have such a mad-on for these sorts of prestige classes in general.

I mean, why bother being a Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / EK 1 and suffer with a piddling BAB of +4 when you could be a Wizard 7 who took Arcane Disciple: Archeon Domain (see Spell Compendium) and get a mad bunch of spells, including divine power? You'll end up with more hp, more BAB, and more spells. So what the hell?
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by User3 »

mean_liar at [unixtime wrote:1148435818[/unixtime]]Why does the Spellsword show up in Gish builds when Havoc Mages seem to do better? Is it the access to reduced ASF that makes it so attractive?


One would assume so, since that is the only "special" ability they get beyond advancing all your other baseline stuff optimally (BAB,caster,HD,saves).

Armor is less than dirt cheap for how helpful it is. The ability to wear armor without interference with spells is superiffic.

Lago_AM3P wrote:
In fact, I'm not even sure why swording mages have such a mad-on for these sorts of prestige classes in general.

I mean, why bother being a Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / EK 1 and suffer with a piddling BAB of +4 when you could be a Wizard 7 who took Arcane Disciple: Archeon Domain (see Spell Compendium) and get a mad bunch of spells, including divine power? You'll end up with more hp, more BAB, and more spells. So what the hell?


Well, the multitude of feats that grant weapon proficiency may not be available in a given campaign (nor the Archeon domain for that matter). So you are stuck being an elf usually, which is not to everyone's aesthetics.

That build is a bit cocked as well. It should be Ftr1/Wiz6/Spellswrd1 before you ever bother with Eldritch Knight. You don't drop any BAB for delaying EK in that manner, and in doing so grab all the caster levels you can.

Using Divine Power via Arcane Disciple means you need 14 Wisdom and only get it once per day. The "gish" classes keep their rogue-BAB equivalent all day long at least. And there is nothing prohibiting them from also taking Arcane Disciple for Divine Power so that they are so-so meleers for most of the day, and badass for that 1 fight a day.

In the build above that I propose, you're getting Divine Power just 1 level later than a pure caster, and you have a bit more HP to back it up, along with some combat competence for when you have already burned your 4th level "domain" spell.

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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by User3 »

People who have a boner for Gishing have several flaws in common:

They want to look like fighters. They want:

A. To use and be proficient in sword and armor, despite there being several better weapons(Blade of Fear and Doom, Scimitar of Sand, Spectral Blade) and better ways of protecting one's ass (Wings of Cover, Blink, Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility or Swift Invisibility, to name a few);

B. Use fighter feats despite the best feats in the game being like 3rd level effects and most feats not being as good as 1st level effects like Grease or Color Spray,

C. They want to be "free" of magical spells, despite the fact that players in the game are boned in an AMF or when hit by a Dispel.

The "magical fighter" is not what people want. They want the old fighter/mage, where your character had the best of all worlds and you were as awesome as a fighter and a mage.

Its really pathetic. They can't even be happy with being awesome at one thing.
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Save_versus_Stupid »

And by being awesome at one thing, you mean advancing as a fighter who can't keep up with the majority of the other classes in the game?

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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by User3 »

SvsS wrote:And by being awesome at one thing, you mean advancing as a fighter who can't keep up with the majority of the other classes in the game?


No, I mean being awesome as a Fighter whose DM has handed him an awesome artifact sword at 10th level, which is the standard in most well-run games. Some players see the fighter get an Artifact greatsword and suddenly feel short in the pants, despite the fact that they are massively powerful casters.

I don't even understand that crap. I'm the kind of guy who plays funny-concept Sorcerers because playing a real caster like a Wizard or Cleric doesn't even feel fair.
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Lago_AM3P »

That build is a bit cocked as well. It should be Ftr1/Wiz6/Spellswrd1 before you ever bother with Eldritch Knight. You don't drop any BAB for delaying EK in that manner, and in doing so grab all the caster levels you can.

Using Divine Power via Arcane Disciple means you need 14 Wisdom and only get it once per day. The "gish" classes keep their rogue-BAB equivalent all day long at least. And there is nothing prohibiting them from also taking Arcane Disciple for Divine Power so that they are so-so meleers for most of the day, and badass for that 1 fight a day.


If you are ever considering dropping one or more caster levels to get more BAB, then you should always consider being a Mystic Theurge.

Not a crummy ass Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / MT X, but a mystic theurge who only has one level in cleric (because they paid for an imbue with spell ability) or a mystic theurge who only has one level in wizard (because they have precocious apprentice and that stupid feat in Races of the Dragon which allows them to cast higher level spells).

You automatically qualify for that dumb feat because clerics can spontaneously cast cure or inflict.

It is seriously a better deal than any Eldritch Knight or Spellsword scheme. Ever. If you're completely in love with the idea of your two shitty feats and wizard spellcasting, then all of your 1st and 2nd level spell slots can go towards powering up Heroics and you'll probably end up with more feats than an EK. Ever. If you want that BAB so bad, then take craft rod and get a metamagic rod of quicken if your DM won't let you be an illuminan or let you take divine metamagic.
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by erik »

I see it as that being able to mix it up in melee is very satisfying at times. Likewise being able to do crazy shite which is only available to spellcasters in DnD mechanics is very satisfying. It isn't at all unreasonable that players wanna do both from time to time.

Hell clerics get to do it from day one. I see gishes more like a toned-down cleric. At the end of the day you are almost as good as a cleric, but it feels like you earned it. I dunno why imitating clerics (decent BAB and HP,buffs,armored casting) feels more palatable than simply playing a cleric, but it does, to me anyway.

I like jack of all trades type stuff where I can get a character to cover as many party roles as possible. I do however feel bad if I ever wind up doing better than the specialist in a party, since that's supposed to be their thing.

I should have clarified earlier that there is nothing preventing a naturally decent BAB gish from taking divine power to max out his BAB, *other than his sense of decency.*

I like racking up the BAB without Divine Power in mind, because I hate Divine Power as a person. If I were to meet Divine Power on the street I might punch him in the face. Him and his buddies Polymorph, Spikes and Wraithstrike. Those no good sumbitches.

I likes a guy who fights as well as a fighter (i.e. still worse than monsters of his CR), but has all sorts of other tricks up his sleeve that keep him from being useless. A caster who gives up 2 levels of progression (i.e. becomes a cohort-level caster) in order to do that is okay in my book and still gets invited to my parties.

[edit: I should add that I could barely care less about fighter feats. They are pretty much never a consideration for any gish I've ever built. A level 2 spell granting them often seems a waste of a level 2 spell.]
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by dbb »

There's another reason people like "Gish" (a term I actively loathe, by the way): people are fundamentally lazy.

Setting up your spell rack appropriately and keeping track of what's running for how long and how your stats change under which spells and on and on and on is a big pain in the ass. I realize that most of us probably picked up D&D before we picked up algebra and can do this sort of thing in our sleep, but even then, there comes a time when you don't feel like doing things in your sleep. And how much worse is it going to be for someone who's relatively new to the game?

It's much easier to just throw on some magic armor and a magic shield, pick up a magic sword, have actually good hit points, and then have some offensive spells so you can blow stuff up with magic when you feel like it. And it has the added bonus of not having a strictly limited amount of time you can be awesome in a fight.

Of course, even taking all this into account, a straight wizard is still perfectly OK at this. You can sling on a mithril twilight chain shirt and a mithril buckler and pick up a sword and no one will even be able to tell the difference. But it is a relatively common misconception that having a good BAB makes you awesome in a fight, so people keep coming up with elaborate schemes of ropes and pulleys to get a better BAB.

--d.
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Save_versus_Stupid »

K - I'm fine with the fact you don't like Gish characters, and think they are just crutches for people with ADD, but as you then stated later you're not always playing maximized characters. It's not a stretch to believe that other people might not either. I don't think it's so much to do with being lazy, rather than the concession of 2 points of BAB and the lack of the shitty fighter feats can easily turn into 7th or 8th level spell capability. Yeah, you're behind the curve of a real caster, but you're mostly going to be casting personal buffs that make you a better fighter anyways.

I'm not sure you're fully remembering correctly, the old fighter/mage advanced two experience charts at once, ending up progressing slower than everyone else.

"It's much easier to just throw on some magic armor and a magic shield, pick up a magic sword, have actually good hit points, and then have some offensive spells so you can blow stuff up with magic when you feel like it. And it has the added bonus of not having a strictly limited amount of time you can be awesome in a fight."

As opposed to picking up a mace, shield, full plate armor and then strictly being awesome the whole day? I don't really understand your argument. I would agree with the lazy point in one area, when you have a limited number of spells known that are probably going to be buffs, it's not difficult to track your spellcasting.

-Magic swords have ass Hit points, by the way.
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by dbb »

As opposed to picking up a mace, shield, full plate armor and then strictly being awesome the whole day? I don't really understand your argument.

I'm ... not sure I understand what you're getting at, either. That clerics are awesome? Yes, they are. That they're more awesome than multiclass fighter/wizard/spellsword/EKs? Yes, they are.

The point wasn't that a wizard can't be a better fighter than an elaborately multiclassed fighter/wizard. The point was that for a lot of people, keeping track of all the spells and whatnot required for them to do that is not fun, and it's easier to be able to get right to the ass-kicking without a whole lot of buffing -- as long as you can still throw fire or turn people into toads when you feel like it. I think that's a completely appealing concept for a lot of people, and that's part of why hybrids are such a popular idea. If you're saying that clerics are a good hybrid by default -- why then you're entirely correct. But I wasn't talking about clerics: I was talking about why people come up with elaborate multiclassed hybrids rather than playing straight wizards. Why people do the former instead of playing clerics is a mystifying question, and I can only assume it either has something to do with the continuing misperception of clerics as walking first aid kits, or else a deep and abiding desire for really flashy wizard spells.

--d.
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Book »

Ever since the publishing of 3.5 Spellsword and 3.5 Eldritch Knight, I've seen plenty of Gish (agreed, a horrible term) that have been absolute failures in RPGA and local gaming groups. Primarily the organically grown Gishes that start at 1st-3rd level and work there way up.

Players who wanted a Gish from the get-go rarely understood the 1-thru-20 level power & utility scaling of this build archetype. These failed ventures also saw players who did understand or care about team synergy optimization. They just wanted to cast buffs and wade in. Regardless of whether their primary role was as the iconic arcanist or iconic tank. Thankfully, I've just finally seen some well-helmed Gishes after these many years of "learning the build".

With the advent of the full slew of Swift Action buffs in recent releases, the Gish archetype has really blossomed ... and become much easier to implement. Prior to this, Gishes worked best when the primary arcanist would cast "stalling" spells (Solid Fog, Walls, etc.) to lead off a combat encounter. This gave the party a decent amount of time to self-buff and better position themselves to fight.

In summation, 3.5 Gishes have never been powerhouses ... until just recently. And still so, the average gamer has no clue how to properly and tactically play one from levels 1 to 20. In fact, at lower levels, they need to shift gears considerably just to stay alive.

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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Save_versus_Stupid »

I was talking about why people come up with elaborate multiclassed hybrids rather than playing straight wizards. Why people do the former instead of playing clerics is a mystifying question, and I can only assume it either has something to do with the continuing misperception of clerics as walking first aid kits, or else a deep and abiding desire for really flashy wizard spells.

I would agree on both of the last points, and then add that some people just enjoy the flavor of it. I know a lot of inexperienced players I know think that clerics are just healing potions on legs, despite the presence of a handful of spells that say they attack as well or better than a fighter, in addition to being able to step back and drop a healing spell on themselves or the rest of the team.

I really just think it's flavor. Throwing flashy damage around has been a part of D&D for so long, that I think it's the main draw for players when considering arcane classes.

Book - Thankfully, I've just finally seen some well-helmed Gishes after these many years of "learning the build".

Well, I would love to hear your insight then. I'm currently playing one in my party, and i'm admittedly a new(er) player to 3.5 in general.

I chose "gish" (I also agree it's a stupid name, but I thought it was easier to recognize than 'teh magic sword') because as stated, I loved playing fighter/mages in second edition and I don't like playing straight wizards. Our party is poorly constructed, with a Monk, Paladin venturing into Kensai (?!), Cleric and myself, the 2fighter/4sorcerer/1spellsword.

I was attempting to supplement the non damage my party does and the ability to use weak arcane items we find.

(Monk - Flurry of blows - Miss, Miss, 4 damage, Miss, Miss, 3 damage, Miss, critical miss)

(Paladin - Charging smite - 20 damage, Miss, 3 damage, 5 damage, miss, 4 damage, 6 damage, Miss)

These are now 7th level characters too. :O
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by dbb »

SVS wrote:Throwing flashy damage around has been a part of D&D for so long, that I think it's the main draw for players when considering arcane classes.


Kind of ironic, what with flashy damage having been royally nerfed in 3.X. I agree that it's what hooks a lot of players onto the class, though.

SVS wrote:Our party is poorly constructed, with a Monk, Paladin venturing into Kensai (?!), Cleric and myself, the 2fighter/4sorcerer/1spellsword.


To my eye, this looks -- ironically -- like an excellent venue for a straight wizard. You have a cleric, so your buffing needs are probably mostly met; and you have people who can hit things, but they're having trouble with the hitting hard and fast enough part. That's a very good spot for a battlefield control character with a lot of disabling and distracting spells to give the others openings and allow them to gang up effectively on the enemy. Of course, you don't have to be a straight wizard (or for that matter a straight sorcerer) to do that. But -- unfortunately -- it doesn't mesh really well with what the better hybrid builds do, IMO. A fighter/mage in 3E works best in one of the "hitter" slots, at least until mid/high levels, when she has plenty of spells to spare; they aren't great at the traditional wizard role, and people who play them play them because they want to hit stuff, not cast pretty little rainbow spells. (I don't exclude myself from that desire, either ...)

--d.

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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by User3 »

Book wrote:With the advent of the full slew of Swift Action buffs in recent releases, the Gish archetype has really blossomed ... and become much easier to implement. Prior to this, Gishes worked best when the primary arcanist would cast "stalling" spells (Solid Fog, Walls, etc.) to lead off a combat encounter. This gave the party a decent amount of time to self-buff and better position themselves to fight.


While it is true that the swift action spells have given the gish(and the mage) a big power-up, the gish build was always good, even with only Core BS.

It looked like this:

Elf or Human with Exotic weapon Prof(bastard sword)

Stats, in order: Str, Dex, cast stasting, but no bigger than 13-14), Con, Cha or Int, Wis

Equipment: Spellstoring weapon(3rd level), mithril buckler(best bonus you can afford, 5th level), animal buff equipment(Str, Dex, Con, casting stat)

Feats:
1st: Extend Spell,
3rd: fighting feat: Power Attack or Mounted Combat
6th:fighting feat: Two Weapon Fighting or Spirited Charge
9th: Quicken Spell

Familiar:Toad(+3 HPs)

Spells:

1st: Mage Armor

2nd: Mirror Image, False Life

3rd: Haste, Greater Magic Weapon, Blink, Circle of Protection from Evil

4th:Stoneskin, Greater Invisiblity, Polymorph

5th: Quickened True Strike, Quickened Magic Missile


So you started your life as an elf wth Mage Armor, and you bowed people. Mostly you wanted to cast a real mage spell like Sleep or Color Spray.

By 3rd level, you had Mirror Image and False Life, so you could mix it up in melee and not die, but you were wasting an action at the beginnng of every combat to cast Mirror Image. At this level, you are a a better Tank than a Fighter as enemies hit your Mirror Images and take HPs from your Flase Life, but you do less damage. Like a fighter, you have 2 combats before you are useless(he needs a cleric to get more combats, you need Pearls of Power).

By 5th-6th level, you started to come into your own. You are 3 BAB behind your pal the fighter and you are starting to notice this. On the bright side, your weapon is now max enchanted with Greater Magic Weapon, you can afford a Spellstoring Weapon(and after every combat you put another awesome spell into it, which is a debuffer or something simple like Scorching Ray). In the race with the fighter, you now have supremecy: your Spellstoring Weapon means that your average damage per combat can now match him or you have the option of debuffing, and you still are a better tank. Tough combats have you casting Blink and Mirror Image, and days where you expect little action have you casting Circle of Protection From Evil or Haste as a party buff. The fighter is pickng up Leadership because he needs a full-time cleric to heal him.

At 7th-8th level, its game over: you spend your first round becoming a Troll most combats, and only do Blink or Mirror Image for very tough combats. The fighter is doing less damage per combat and you have the option iof debuffing. Now you pick up a second Spell Storing Weapon and either use it with Two Weapon Fighting or Spirited Charge). The fighter is short in the pants, and weeps during every combat.

At 9th-10th level, you cast Quickened spells every turn in combat. Some are a small as True Strike or Magic Missile[i/], but others are Color Spray. At this level, the fighter gets an Artifact Sword because he's been bitching for three levels, and he draws up to your power. At this point, you invest in some better enhancements for your weapon like Ghost Touch or "some elemental damage", or you round out the enhancement bonuses to stats that you've been collecting. It really doesn't matter.

At his level, the Fighter knows that the DM is lifting him up to sit in the big-boy chair during combat, and the gish is ten times as useful out of combat as he's got Teleport and Fabricate and Detect Thoughts and all kinds of crazy crap.

Later levels have the gish busting out craziness like Quickened Invisibility or Mirror images, and he stops being hit in combat by any non-spell effect (and most spell effects).

While at any point in this build the mage could have outdamaged the fighter with AoEs or outperformed him by using crap like solid fog, he has definitively outfought him at almost every point. I think the Fighter is a win at 2nd level only, and equal at 1st and 3rd level.
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by fbmf »

Okay, I don't read WotC, so what's a "Gish"?

Game On,
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Save_versus_Stupid »

K, that's good stuff. That's generally how I have approached my character, but you do introduce me to a few things I hadn't considered (greater magical weapon, spell storing weapon)

I probably did one thing wrong though, with one of my fighter bonus feats I had chosen monkey grip - assuming later on I would be burning extra spells through arcane strike to push my BaB over the top.

By the way, you're the same K on the wotc board who posted the huge Necromancer thread? If so, I must say that you did a splendid job blending the fluff with playable classes.

I also loved how people broke down the stuff as busted, the bonedancer (reaper? I forget the name) and you just dismantled level by level what monsters would be beating them and how they wouldn't be outperforming other classes.

I'm probably going to convince my GM to let me play the class in our next campaign.
Save_versus_Stupid
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Re: Duskblade vs traditional Gish discussion

Post by Save_versus_Stupid »

Okay, I don't read WotC, so what's a "Gish"?

Retarded name adapted to "fighter/mage" due to the fact githyanki fighterwizards call themself that, I believe?

More netspeak shorthand.
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