The Gaming Den

Does anyone know of any effect at all, aside from Phanes, that allows them to go backwards in time?

I ask this because I hate kobolds with all of my heart and the most recognized character in D&D for cheese is Pun Pun. Who is a kobold.

Fixed Tag - fbmf

There is a plot-devicey time travel item/spell in Dragonlance continuity. I don't know if it's been ported to 3.x yet, though.

--d.

The Horrific Vasuthant has the power to reset time to the beginning of last turn three times per day. That means that you can actually use shapechange to become a Horrific Vasuthant, reset time, then use shapechange back then, and so on all the way back to the last time you didn't have an active shaechange or have shapechange prepared.

If you've been properly using Persistent cheese with Divine Metamagic (Druid) or Incantatrix (Wizard), that could seriously be months or years ago.

Combine with planar effects, and you can make Time your bitch so hard that it already had your love child.

-Username17

If you use the Infinite mirror cosmology (a string of alternate realities stretched inifintely) then - as the DM wills it - plane shifting can have the same effect as time travel.

Lago_AM3P at [unixtime wrote:1155482420[/unixtime]]
I ask this because I hate kobolds with all of my heartand the most recognized character in D&D for cheese is Pun Pun. Who is a kobold.

I'm going to need someone to explain

(a) who Pun Pun is, and
(b) how Pun Pun relates to time travel?

Game On,
fbmf

Nevermind. Believe it or not it was in wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun-Pun

From the Link wrote:
There have been attempts to surpass this character build, but more often than not they focus on reversing time to the stage that Pun-Pun has not yet become powerful.

Game On,
fbmf

Pun Pun is a solved problem as far as I'm concerned. The original author said that he was safe from the Wish and the Word because he had infinite Spell Resistance then... he's dead.

It's an evolving invulnerability challenge. He's only immune to everything he's remembered to make himself immune to. Since he isn't immune to a Caster Level 138 Holy Word bursting through as a SR ignoring Supernatural Ability, he doesn't survive one round of combat.

Problem solved. The author is an idiot and The Word one-punched him while he was gloating.

-Username17

[Hijack]
So how come Pun Pun gets to be on wikipedia and The Wish and Word do not?
[/Hijack]

Game On,
fbmf

Pun Pun is a Kobold, and presented in a fashion of "aren't we awesome here on the character optimization board? Discuss and contribute."

The Wish and The Word were supplied for a contest. They were a statement that Keith and I are better at min/maxing than the entirety of the charop board. And while it's true, that's insulting.

That's why. Pun Pun is given exalted status because he was a group project of the charop board. A kind of pathetic group project, but a group project nonetheless. Also Kobolds are funny to the kind of people who think that Gully Dwarf impersonations are funny.

-Username17

Oh, now I see it. Pun-Pun is just a lower level Illithid Savant loop.

fbmf wrote:So how come Pun Pun gets to be on wikipedia and The Wish and Word do not?

Because no one's created a wiki for the W&W.

Heh, that can be rectified, but only by someone more motivated to do so than I.

I wouldn't bother.

It would probably get deleted for completely arbitrary reasons. I'm still bitter over the fact that they deleted the entry for How to Make a Sprite Comic in 8 Easy Bits because it wasn't 'popular' enough and that there isn't even a fucking entry for what toejam is and how it might lead to athlete's foot, but 300+ Pokemon pages is just ducky and needs to be preserved.

If you were in the Wish and the Word contest, you should know the utter failure it is of having relevance and popularity determined by a commitee.

Go wikipedia.

Heh, that can be rectified, but only by someone more motivated to do so than I.

Done.

What is the link? I couldn't find it

ahhh, I see, Pun-pun got deleted. - heh.

Hrm, I considering completing the scouring of Pun-Pun from Wikipedia by wiping his footnote off of the Kobolds (Dungeons & Dragons) bit...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold_%28 ... ][br]Maybe I'll just edit out the dead reference link.

clikml at [unixtime wrote:1156144748[/unixtime]]Hrm, I considering completing the scouring of Pun-Pun from Wikipedia by wiping his footnote off of the Kobolds (Dungeons & Dragons) bit...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold_%28 ... ][br]Maybe I'll just edit out the dead reference link.

Did that just now.

I'm just bumping this thread to state how much I hate wikipedia and having the fate of certain articles decided by like 5-6 people.

Meh, I'm ok with Wikipedia on this one. I'm with Frank: Pun-Pun was a waste of computer memory.

My objection to Pun-Pun is strictly on aesthetic grounds. It's just not very interesting.

See, the thing is, when you're posting about a character build that will never get to be played by anyone in the entire history of the universe, there are basically two ways to make it interesting to me:

1: You can come up with a really clever combo that relies on a large number of different tricks and little-known rules all working in conjunction to make you awesome (a/k/a the "The Word" method) within the limits of hard and fast rules.

2: You can come up with something extremely simple, or reliant on extremely vague rules, and make it interesting by dint of being a good writer (a/k/a the "The Wish" method -- not to suggest that The Word isn't well-written also, but doing it this way has a nice symmetry).

The Pun-Pun writeup doesn't do either. It gets the character an excessively vague and plot-devicey power in three simple steps, and then beats the gimmick to death with a rock. It's not particularly educational to read about in a game mechanical sense and it's not nearly overblown or funny enough to make for a good read.

I acknowledge the cleverness of the trick. I just don't have anything else to say about it.

--d.

I don't know, there is a reason that pun-pun gets the attention that it does. The reason is that it can do everything. There will not be any build that can beat pun pun. At anything. Pun Pun is interesting because it is an absolute end point where it is literally the most powerful build possible. That's a notion that people respond to in powerful ways. And pun pun wouldn't have a problem with the word because he could have infinite hit dice. I don't want this to be a pissing contest. I don't have a horse in the game and think that the word is more interesting than pun pun, but Pun Pun has captured the imaginations of many people for a reason.

Lago_AM3P at [unixtime wrote:1156569123[/unixtime]]I'm just bumping this thread to state how much I hate wikipedia and having the fate of certain articles decided by like 5-6 people.

Is this hate lessed mayhaps by the fact that only 5-6 people care about pun-pun anyway?

DP at [unixtime wrote:1157003721[/unixtime]]I don't know, there is a reason that pun-pun gets the attention that it does. The reason is that it can do everything. There will not be any build that can beat pun pun. At anything. Pun Pun is interesting because it is an absolute end point where it is literally the most powerful build possible. That's a notion that people respond to in powerful ways. And pun pun wouldn't have a problem with the word because he could have infinite hit dice. I don't want this to be a pissing contest. I don't have a horse in the game and think that the word is more interesting than pun pun, but Pun Pun has captured the imaginations of many people for a reason.

Except he's not. The new damage record on the CO boards is beyond Pun-pun's capabilities. Seriously. Oh, he can eventually get there, where eventually is measured in units of multiples of time till heat death of the universe. Its too big to count up to by any rational person. (Yay up-arrow notation? For when scientific notation just isn't big enough?) And Pun-pun has a bajillion other things to be advancing anyway. Pun-pun is actually severely time-limited, which makes him even more boring.

-squirrelloid

Wow, you guys have all earned yo' PHD (yo' Playa Hatin' Degree).

Wow, you guys have all earned yo' PHD (yo' Playa Hatin' Degree).

'Wow'? Oberoni, you've known me for how long?

Anyway, I wouldn't mind this infinite combo at all if it was a human, a dwarf, an elf, or even a dragon.

I just really, really, really, really, really hate kobolds. If someone ever invents a 'Kobold Disciple' PrC class, rest assured that you will see Lago AM3P showing up in news headlines. The headline will me that I was arrested for ripping out every store's copy of that page, chewing it up into spitwads, and spitting them in the eyes of the store's management.