World of Darkness and Folly

[Fwib]

re: 'baby football' - I read that bit as: "the guy was not emo - he was so in touch with his inner nasty that he would have kicked babies about for sport"

Was I wrong?

[Sir Neil]

I figured he meant the character played baby football.

[MrWaeseL]

On the other hand, you have an extremely vocal population of furries who rise up at any possible instance of believed persecution

"fursecution"

[Eela6]

I read that bit as: "the guy was not emo - he was so in touch with his inner nasty that he would have kicked babies about for sport"

That makes so much more sense. Wow.

"fursecution"

Oh god, that combination-word* makes me laugh my ass off.

And now, in the off-color humor section:

"Remember kids, killing furries isn't murder, it's Taxidermy.

*Yes, I know there's a word for it. It starts with a P and I can't spell it. It's like portmantaeu or some such.

[MrWaeseL]

They also call their 'animal forms' (or whatever) "fursonas".

And the word is portmanteau. It contains 'eau' like in bureau, that should help you remember it

[Crissa]

I don't have a fursona, and I don't hang out with furends, and I don't care to meet you in furson.

Baby-talk like that gets on my nerves, about as quick as the thees and thous at Renfaire, but not as fast as thees and thous from someone mock roleplaying.

But really, you'll find that in any fandom - stupid words and gimmics and drama. Lots of drama.

But then again, is it better or worse to have fursecution or people stabbing each other in the back over some love triangle? Ugh. I hate hets.

-Crissa

[Catharz]

I'm being fursecuted!


;_;

But, to be more serious, Crissa is right. Only the babyfurs are truely deserving of divine wrath.

[Draco_Argentum]

Fursecution is annoying mostly through usage, the most annoying furmanteau is fursona. Something about that one just bugs me.

[Desdan_Mervolam]

For the record, I have never heard the word "Fursecution" used un-ironically. It's also by people who hate furries because it's cool to hate furries, while making fun of furries.

And yeah, there are people who are so in love with furrydom and their furry persona that they have to mix 'fur' and animalisms into their speech at every oppertunity (I'll leave examples out *CoughcoughKKatCough* S'cuse me.), most furries are relatively sane people, just like most gamers are relatively sane people. It's just that the idiots tend to draw more attention to themselves in every fandom. And yeah, those fucktards bug the shit out the rest of us too.

Now, can we get back to bitching about World of Darkness?

-Des

[Ramnza]

[Associate Fence Builder Speaks]

Hey guys, let's get back on topic. Tear it up.

[/Assoicate Fence Builder Speaks]

[Prak]

1168408783[/unixtime]]

what's wrong with furries and japanophiles? anyway... emo vampires are completely player/st-caused... I know one person who larped vampire and played baby football... anyway...

I'm a hateful man. I have no idea what "Baby Football" is, but I'm assuming it's some sort of amateur American football league. That's cool, it's a good sport.

as people have guessed, that's football with babies instead of the traditional pigskin ball.

The serious problem with many of these 'communities' is that they are, to a large extent... I don't know how to say this any better - they're masturbation and self-delusion.

I say this as a man whose regular use of free time is rearrangement of numbers in dungeons and dragons to make my character's numbers be slightly higher (or lower, as the cause may be) than someone else's.

The difference is, I don't pretend this is something that is productive or generally accepted. I have no problem with someone who enjoys anthromorphic art or whatever, it's not my thing but I have no right to yell at them about that. On the other hand, you have an extremely vocal population of furries who rise up at any possible instance of believed persecution and clamor loudly for everyone to be wowed by their ability to dress up in bad costumes and/or write bad pornography and/or (etc.) They then make themselves feel better by saying that they're a lot better than someone else. They rant and rave and compare themselves to movements with much more grounding than their own, ones that haven't ground most of their credibility into the ground.

It's not going to get them laid and it's certainly not going to change public society, so what's the point? Again, it makes them feel better. Masturbation and self-delusion. While I agree they certainly have freedom of expression to talk about that, so do I. If they can't take a little criticism, they're hardly open-minded.

Likewise, Japanophiles's biggest problems are not the fact they love japan. It's that they love Japan to the exclusion of all other cultures, and fail to see any flaws whatsoever. Japan is cool. I eat a lot of sushi, I play a frightening amount of video games, and I have a strange addiction to one, and only one anime. On the other hand, it's certainly not Shangri-La. The Japanese are not beyond reproach, they can do wrong, not all the women are randomly attractive and ready to fall in love with american tourists*. Yet, whenever someone raises a criticism of any one of their many passions [anime, japanese culture, the katana, the japanese social situation], some vocal member of the community will grind what's left of their communal diginity into the ground.

yeah... as evidenced by the recently lifted ban on katana threads on Wotc...

just like most gamers are relatively sane people

huh? umm... I mean... of course we are*hides mason jar full of homemade napalm behind back*

seriously.. the gamers I know(including me) are not sane people... we all need psychiatric help... ironically enough one of us desires to be a psychiatrist...

also... I'm a fur(as the avi prolly already told you...), I use the word fursona... but only when talking to furs, and only because it's the easiest way to get the meaning across... course... I only use that word... no other portmanteaus...

[fbmf]

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Prak, ignoring a Mod asking you to get back on topic is a good way to get warned.

For the last time: This thread is about WoD, not furries. You want to talk about furry-ism, start a thread in MPSIMS.
[/TGFBS]

[Eela6]

World of Darkness sucks.

I have to give them credit for trying, though. NWOD was a step in the right direction - that step just happened to have them slip on an entire bucket of grease, fall down all 1660 steps of the eifel tower, and then get run over a truck when they hit the bottom.

A truck hauling radioactive waste. However, unlike Daredevil, they didn't get awesome-super-blindness-thing powers. They just got Rad-Aids.

[RandomCasualty]

I don't even think nWoD was a step in the right direction. It was simpler, but really, it works even worse than old WoD did and somehow manages to be both needlessly complex and oversimplified at the same time.

[Prak]

sorry, fbmf... I'll get back on topic..

I don't think WoD really needed simplifying... Mage stupifies me, but really cause the most I've seen about it is a character sheet... I think the redux on tribes/clans/etc. is moronic...

[bitnine]

1169581023[/unixtime]]I don't think WoD really needed simplifying... Mage stupifies me, but really cause the most I've seen about it is a character sheet... I think the redux on tribes/clans/etc. is moronic...

Well, oWoD needed a good cleaning out of metaplot and rules overhaul. For one thing, the different games were simply incompatible with each other. And accumulated cannon of varying quality needed to be cut back with a friggin' flaming chainsaw capable of vaporizing things.

I can definately see solid reasons for there being a reboot. I just don't care for this reboot.

[Crissa]

nWoD needs more furries and more drama.

The current books seem to say 'Hey, there are monsters in the world! But they're totally boring and no one cares, which is why the world doesn't believe in them!'

-Crissa

[RandomCasualty]

1169614178[/unixtime]]nWoD needs more furries and more drama.

The current books seem to say 'Hey, there are monsters in the world! But they're totally boring and no one cares, which is why the world doesn't believe in them!'

Honestly I think it needs less furries. WoD isn't supposed to be D&D. There aren't mind flayers and werebears walking on every streetcorner. It's supposed to resemble the real world at least on face value and having a ton of man eating monsters in every inch of the world's wilderness areas just doesn't make sense.

[Username17]

Structurally, it's supposed to be:

1. You have special powers that make you awesome. That's Good.
   
2. But these powers are cursed and make you feel shitty about yourself. That's Bad.
   
3. The world is full of people just like you with special powers and you're part of the club. That's good.
   
4. But the special club is run by total cocks who want to sexually abuse you. That's bad.
   
5. Furthermore, you have to join that club, because people with your powers are rightfully feared and could be easily destroyed by the whole of society. That's bad.
   
6. But the wholeof human society doesn't really believe you exist because the people with your powers are hiding it pretty well. That's good... I guess.

But the nWoD really falls down on that, as did old Mage. Both suffer from the fact that you really don't feel shitty about yourself for having the powers, they're just kind of awesome with little in the manner of drawbacks.

And the secret clubs are therefore kind of pointless, because you can just not talk to them and move on with your life. This means that the fact that they are all abusive and messed up just doesn't even matter. End result: even as a vampire, you don't really care that there are vampires. There's no reason to talk to the Lancea Sanctum, you can just ignore them entirely and nothing happens to you.

In fact, nWoD instituted a bunch of rules that really fvck characters in the ass if they try to hang out with other supernaturals. Promethians get nut stomped if they even know another supernatural. Vampires run the risk of death every time they meet another vampire face to face. There's really no reason to actually hang with other supernaturals. Really what you should be doing is living like a normal human as best you can (which is pretty much just like a human in every way that matters even for vampires).

And that sucks. Basically the revamps of the nWoD make it so that there's no reason for the common man to care about the supernaturals, and there's no real reason for supernaturals to care that there are other supernaturals. There's no motivation to interact with any part of the campaign world for anyone. It's saddening.

-Username17

[bitnine]

Honestly I think it needs less furries. WoD isn't supposed to be D&D. There aren't mind flayers and werebears walking on every streetcorner.

Since when? From the old WoD I can cite exactly one non-supernatural person of historical interest. Alexander Grahm Bell. Seriously, oWoD was so overpopulated with supernatural critters that if taken in all at once you've got a picture of trenchcoats being continually out of stock because everyone wears them to conceal their tentacles, and the human population is right about one guy. His name is Steve, I met him once. For everyone else it's more a question of how supernatural you are.

But the nWoD really falls down on that, as did old Mage. Both suffer from the fact that you really don't feel shitty about yourself for having the powers, they're just kind of awesome with little in the manner of drawbacks.

Hell, pre-Rev old mage didn't even really try. The only "drawback" was being drawn into the Ascension War and fluffy humanistic failings of beings with such power. There were numerous and continued complaints about this and other basic thematic differences between old mage and the other games. Which is a chunk of the reason why Rev said the Ascension War was dead and introduced things like Resonance. But let's face it, Resonance was a crappy tacked on feature that didn't even deliver on the whole "darkness inside" (tm) WoD mainstay.

[Maj]

Since when? From the old WoD I can cite exactly one non-supernatural person of historical interest. Alexander Grahm Bell. Seriously, oWoD was so overpopulated with supernatural critters that if taken in all at once you've got a picture of trenchcoats being continually out of stock because everyone wears them to conceal their tentacles, and the human population is right about one guy. His name is Steve, I met him once. For everyone else it's more a question of how supernatural you are.

[Modesitt]

Seriously, oWoD was so overpopulated with supernatural critters that if taken in all at once you've got a picture of trenchcoats being continually out of stock because everyone wears them to conceal their tentacles

Let me expand on his point.

I've got a nice collection of old Werewolf material. I'm going to grab a few breedbooks at random and...there we go. I've got three. I'm now holding Bastet which introduces 10 new species, Mokole which introduces four new shapeshifting species, and Rokea introduces a limitless number of new shapeshifting species. They only specifically stat out six but suggest that almost any shark species would be appropriate.

With just the core book and three other ones, we're already up to 19 different species of shapechanger. Granted, shapechangers are in decline, but the sheer number of shapechangers that are absolutely required to exist is mind-blowing. Remember, these are all seperate species. Each one needs a substantial population base just to not go extinct, much less exist in sufficient numbers to ever encoutner each other when their 'territory' might be 'North America'. Now add in the 20 or so western vampire clans, eastern vampires, Awakened mages, hedge mages, mummys(old and new variants plus eastern versions), the other six changing breeds that may also have multiple subspecies, the non-shapechanging Kin that every single changing breed had, gypsies, ghoul families, changelings, hunter, demon, and last but not least, orpheus.

The previous poster also touched on another WoD pet peeve: The shanghaing of famous historical individuals. Every single supernatural group would inevitably lay claim to everyone that mattered, but Mage was the worst in this regard. nWoD has claimed a few people, but it usually couches such claims in phrases like "This group claims that Alexander the Great was a member of the Adamantine Arrow, but this group disputes it and says he wasn't at all" or somesuch.

[RandomCasualty]

Yeah, WoD produced way too many furries as it is in werewolf, and it was incredibly stupid. They really needed to cut down on the crap. They didn't need weresharks, werebears and all that other garbage. They could have just stuck with... well werewolves.

Vampires at least feel somewhat natural since they can camouflage themselves in the WoD without making large scale scenes. Werewolves go bat shit nuts and destroy stuff, leaving any people who view them insane in their wake.

Even vampire got sort of crazy when they started dealing with the Sabbat, who supposedly would run into a crowded traffic filled street and start ripping people out of their cars and killing them for no reason.

But werewolf was just dumb... There's just no reason that werewolves wouldn't be common knowledge. Vampires supposedly control the media, and they want werewolves out of the picture. So why not acknowledge the existence of werewolves and set the human populations on their destruction. They lose effectively nothing and have something to occupy the monster hunters of the world.

[dbb]

I remember "Wind From the East" specifically declaring that Genghis Khan was not a vampire, so apparently some of WW's authors felt much the same way. Of course, he probably turned out to be Kinfolk or whatever in a later supplement.

Personally, I rather liked pre-rev Mage for pretty much the reasons bitnine talks about: you could have characters who got to do really cool things without also being expected to get all angsty and tormented about it. It's not that I don't enjoy getting angsty and tormented about my characters as much as anyone (and probably more than most), but I prefer not to have that kind of thing applied with a sledgehammer by the game itself.

--d.

[Neeek]

The whole Sabbat thing never made much sense to me. What is the point of the Masquerade if you have an entire faction that doesn't play by those rules? And if they can get away with not playing by those rules, why do they exist at all (since there is no reason to think the rest of the vampires couldn't as well)?