What if Evocation didn't suck?

[Brobdingnagian]

I was talking to a buddy about direct damage spells, and apparently, they didn't always suck. Apparently, in AD&D, direct damage spells were cool, because monsters only had half the hit points they do now. So... since the rest of the game is balanced against the monsters having as many hit points as they do now, we certainly can't bring their hit points down just to make DD spells useful.

But DD spells should be useful, shouldn't they? I mean, it's not that wizards need to be more powerful, it's just that leaving them an area of spellcasting which is nerfed compared to their other spells is like leaving the fighter as written in the PHB. Some of want to do flashy-blowing-stuff-up magic, but with the way things are written, it doesn't work. So how do we fix that?

Well, for starters, let's get rid of the damage cap. Sure, it may seem like a good idea that Burning Hands caps out at 5d4, but it's really not. At 20th level, 20d4 isn't a big deal anymore (what with people throwing around Wish, Miracle, and chain-gating Solars), but it's enough that someone may actually consider preparing the spell, just in case, instead of wasting a level of Archmage grabbing Arcane Fire. So, damage cap, gone.

Now for the real issue, though. The damage dealt by a spell has to scale to its spell level. Did you know that Delayed Blast Fireball (7th level spell), when you get it, does exactly as much damage as Fireball (3rd level spell)? Lame. So how do we fix it?

Well, first of all, let's even out damage. Why should spells like Burning Hands and Magic Missile only do a d4 of damage, when the Halfling Rogue with a flippin' (hate to use weapon sizes, but whatever) small-size Dagger does 1d3+1d6? Wow, don't we just suck now? Everything does d6's. Simple, and everyone's got d6's.

"But Bob, then how is a higher level spell better if its die size doesn't increase?"

The answer is simple. Give it more dice, like you're not an idiot. A DD spell's base damage is now 1d6 per spell level per caster level.

For example. Let's assume that now, Burning Hands, as a first level spell, does 1d6 points of damage per caster level. Fireball, a third level spell, deals 3d6 points of damage per caster level, and Delayed Blast Fireball, a seventh level spell, deals 7d6 points of damage per caster level.

Maybe now damage spells can keep up with the guy with a sword.

This is just a quick fix, and in no way fully comprehensive of the game. It's a start, though. If anyone could help out to make this more fully incorporated into the game, then maybe blasters won't be so useless.

[User3]

I'll point out MMs 1d4+1 is equivalent to d6 on average, and I prefer 1d4+1 to 1d6, but in general causing all spells to do at least d6 is a good thing probably

hmm.. so a 9th level spell at 20th level does 180d6 damage? I'm going to need more dice... and I play Warhammer40k! (I only have about 100d6 in gaming dice!)

--Squirrelloid

[Brobdingnagian]

630 average damage. Hmm... okay, so maybe it's a little much. But it doesn't change the fact that DD spells do suck and need to get better.

[Leress]

Why not increase the dice for some of the higher level spells. Instead of d6s give higher level spells d8s, d10s, and d12s.

[Brobdingnagian]

Ugh. We're trying to avoid increasing die size. The "If the dice are one step bigger, than the spell is worth a whole extra spell level" philosophy is what led to DD spells sucking in the first place.

[User3]

ok, first lets define low/mid/high as 1-3/4-6/7-9th spell levels.

Low level spells deal 1d6/level, and improve from single-target at 1st to area at 3rd.

Mid level spells either deal 2d6/level or add secondary effects (and are still 1d6/level). The nature of secondary effects improves with spell level, but all areas are probably equal at this point.

High level spells deal 2d6/level and receive a secondary effect. (9th level spells dealing 3d6/level is probably also acceptable). Again, the nature of the secondary effect gets better with increasing spell level.

How does that sound? (Note, compare to a RoW Barbarian)

--Squirrelloid

[Brobdingnagian]

That looks much better.

[Judging__Eagle]

1175889169[/unixtime]]

How does that sound? (Note, compare to a RoW Barbarian)

--Squirrelloid

Fvcking gold.

Although, I'd prefer if it was slightly less than the barb.

The barb has to get into melee range and do dangerous stuff (like provoke an AoO on each attack) to deal his insane amounts of damage.

The wizard could lob fireballs at something 400+ feet away.

[Brobdingnagian]

Ah, but Fireballs are low level, so still only do a d6 per caster level.

[Cielingcat]

So let's list a few secondary effects for direct damage spells by type.

Fire

• Reflex save or catch on fire
  
• Will save or be blinded for 1d4 rounds
  
• Fort save or be somethinged

Electricity

• Reflex save or be knocked prone
  
• Fort save or be stunned for 1d4 rounds
  
• Will save or be somethinged

Acid

• Fort save or be... turned into water and a salt?
  
• Reflex save or... be disfigured?
  
• Screw this, acid is a crappy energy type. It isn't even fvcking energy.

Cold

• Fort save or be slowed
  
• Will save or something
  
• Reflex save or be stuck in place for an amount of time

[User3]

Here's some sample Evocation spells to illustrate. Also note that I'm considering the "touch" range to be a disadvantage.

Note: having chosen fire, finding secondary effects that made sense was actually kind of hard. A lot of additional spells could of course be imagined, but I tried to make at least one for each level.

0th:
Flaming Fist
Level: S/W 0
Components: V, S
Range: Personal
Duration: 1r/level
Save: None
SR: None

You magically surround your hand with a nimbus of fire. This fire deals no damage to you, but lets you make an touch attack that deals 1d6 fire damage, or adds 1d6 fire damage to your unarmed attacks. You count as armed for the purposes of provoking attacks of opportunity while this spell is in effect.

Searing Touch
Level: S/W 0
Components: V, S, M
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort 1/2
SR: Yes

Your touch burns your opponent, inflicting 1d6/level fire damage.

1st:
Call Fire
Level: S/W 1
Components: V, S, M
Range: Close (25' +5'/level)
Effect: Cause fire to erupt in a target square
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref 1/2
SR: Yes

With a guesture you create fire in a square of your choosing within close range. Any creature occupying that square takes 1d6/level fire damage (ref for 1/2). This also sets fire to unattended objects and may cause your opponent to catch fire.

2nd:
Flame Tendril
Level: S/W 2
Components: V, S, M
Range: Ray at med range (100' + 10'/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: None
SR: Yes

As a ranged touch attack you inflict 1d6/level fire damage to a target.

3rd:
Fire Ball
Level: S/W 3
Components: V, S, M
Range: Long (400' + 40'/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref 1/2
SR: Yes

As the PHB fireball spell

Fry
Level: S/W 3
Components: V, S, M
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort partial
SR: Yes

Your touch causes your opponents blood to boil. Your opponent takes 1d6/level fire damage, and is nauseated unless he succeeds at a fortitude save.

4th:
Flash
Level: S/W 4
Components: V, S, M
Range: Med (100' + 10'/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref partial
SR: No

You cause a bright flash of flame to occur in any square within medium range. Any creature occupying that square takes 1d6/level fire damage (Ref 1/2). Any creature within 10' of the flash take 1/2 damage. All creatures effected by it are also blinded for 5 rounds. Creatures effected are entitled to a reflex save to avoid the blindness - any creature in the targetted square makes 1 reflex save roll for both effects.

5th:
Fire Bolt
Level: S/W 5
Components: V, S
Range: Ray at Med (100' + 10'/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Save:
SR: Yes

You make a ranged touch attack against an opponent. If you hit, he takes 2d6/level fire damage.

Inferno
Level: S/W 5
Components: V, S, M
Area: 40' radius emanation centered on you
Duration: 1r/level
Save: None
SR: None

You cause the area around you to become a raging inferno. Anyone (besides you) in the area of effect takes 6d6 fire damage each round, must hold their breath or risk drowning, and have cover (20% miss chance). Unattended items may catch fire - treat the inferno as intense sustained flames. The inferno moves with you, but items that have caught fire follow the normal rules for burning even after they have left the area.

6th:
Dragon's Breath
Level: S/W 6
Components: S, M
Range: 60' Cone
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref 1/2
SR: None

You breathe a cone of fire 60' long and 60' wide at the base. All creatures within the cone take 2d6/level damage, 1/2 with a successful Ref save.

7th:
Delayed Blast Fireball

As PHB spell except deals 2d6/level damage. (Extra effect is the delay).

8th:
Hellfire [Evil]
Level: S/W 8
Components: V, S, M
Area: 10'/CL emanation centered on you
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Will Partial, Ref 1/2
SR: Partial

You open up the gates of hell itself, channelling fire from that dark dimension into your own. Everyone around you (excluding yourself) is seared by dark flames that deal 2d6/level damage (1/2 fire and 1/2 unholy), 1/2 with a successful reflex save. In addition, any creature damaged by the flames must make a Will save or be effected as a Fear spell, except the effect penetrates any protections which prevent mind-affecting spells from effecting a creature so long as they have an intelligence score. (ie, a golem is still immune, but an undead Lich or a wizard with Mindblank is not). Creatures for whom the caster fails the SR check are immune to the Fear effect, but not the damage.

(Good creatures fear for their souls, evil creatures feel castigated for their shortcomings).

9th:
Armageddon
Level: S/W 9
Components: V, S, M
Range: Long (400' + 40'/level)
Area: 20'/level radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref 1/2
SR: No

You rain destruction down from the heavens, bombarding the area with burning meteors and dealing 3d6/level to all within the area of effect (Ref save for 1/2). This damage is half fire damage and half impact damage. The spell may cause structures and items to catch fire, and can damage or destroy structures in the area.

[User3]

I changed my opinion on Dragon's Breath - it should be a 5th level spell.

How about:

6th:
Ignite
Level: S/W 6
Components: V, S, M
Range: Med (100' + 10'/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Ref Partial
SR: Yes

You ignite any one creature within range. That creature takes 2d6/level fire damage and catches on fire (Ref to avoid catching on fire) - Creatures who catch on fire because of this spell must check for all carried or worn items each round they are on fire.

Finally:
Inferno does give you partial cover, but you don't suffer any of the other effects.

[User3]

Ok, this niche really needs filling:

Spontaneous Combustion
Level: S/W 9
Components: V, S
Range: Close (25' + 5'/2 levels)
Effect: 1 target/level
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fort 1/2
SR: Yes

You inflict 3d6/level fire damage to each target (fort save for 1/2). Any target reduced below 0 hp by this damage is instantly killed (if still alive - no save) and turned to ashes. (This precludes any method of resurrection that requires a body or part of the body).

[User3]

I should really bother to log in so I can edit.

Anyway, Hellfire should be altered such that creatures with an int score that are otherwise immune to mind-affecting effects instead automatically make their save against the fear effect (and become shaken for one round).

--Squirrelloid

[Brobdingnagian]

That actually looks good. It'd take some creativity, but you could have some decent evocation spells at any level.

Except acid. That's just dumb.

[Cielingcat]

Each of the energy types are supposed to represent one of the four classical elements, so Earth has to have something. Acid is stupid though. How about we just let Earth spells deal physical damage?

[Judging__Eagle]

No, they deal Earth damage, which is exactly the same as Acid, but it sort of chafes and scratches instead and Spell Resistance can neger prevent Earth damage, only Earth Resistance may reduce this damage type.

So Melf's Earth Arrow is a line of fine sand that abrades the target over several rounds.

I rather like that flavour actually. I like it a lot.

[Digestor]

Circumcision be damned, this sand is everywhere.

Earth was one of my favourite classic 'four' elements...

*enter Giant in the Playground reference about elements*

[User3]

Except Acid is really a water-associated thing. Think about it, the definition of an acid refers specifically to the pH of a water-based solution. Whatever they thought acid had to do with earth I have no idea. However, screw Acid - call it Chemical and let it include bases and other classes of noxious chemicals, and be done with it.

And Cold isn't really associated with Water any more than Air - its associated with a para-elemental plane (of ice). Lightning is technically associated with a quasi-elemental plane (the air-positive energy interface, iirc). Only fire is straight-up associated with the right element.

[Nereas]

Well Force is probably the best "earth" elemental energy damage, as it fits best with what "earth" describes - solid things, blades, barriers etc.

[Draco_Argentum]

We don't really need to associate with the four classical Greek elements anyway. Go hog wild. Negative and positive energy, lightning, force, whatever.

[shau]

Well Force is probably the best "earth" elemental energy damage, as it fits best with what "earth" describes - solid things, blades, barriers etc.

Yeah, but then you are going to have people countering ethereal and incorporeal creatures by throwing rocks at them.

[Artless]

Why exactly do we need a bazillion spells that do the same thing in the end? Damage is damage, we don't need 14 spells that have very minor differences to just do something as basic as hitting some guy.

I like the way that Psionics dealt with direct damage powers, even if Psionics are retarded. That is, there are seperate spells for different areas of effect, and you can choose what energy type you feel like using when you cast the spell.

That would lend a lot more weight to choosing Evocation as a specialty, seeing as there are only 3 or so Evocation spells I care about anyway. Being able to prepare a Cone spell and have it deal (Fire, Cold, or Sonic, etc.) damage depending on the monster is a bigger addition to the school than just upping the damage.

Secondary effects are a big help too. You don't even have to make them that different between spell levels either; Fire spells could do damage and a half or set crap on fire, Cold could slow and eventually freeze opponents, Sonic could deafen and eventually stun, etc.

Example:

Burst
Level: Sor/Wiz z
Components: V, S
Casting Time: Standard Action
Area: 40 ft. radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Reflex Half (possible Will or Fortitude, see below.)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Burst blasts a torrent of energy from the palm of your hand, emanating 40 feet out in all directions. This blast deals xd6 points of damage/caster level in addition to a secondary effect depending on energy type chosen at the time of casting.

Fire: Creatures caught in the blast are immolated, dealing half of the damage of the original blast on the next round. A second Reflex save negates this damage.
Cold: Creatures caught in the blast are frozen in place. Their speed is reduced to 0 for z rounds. They must take a standard action, to make an Escape Artist or Strength check (DC equal to that of the spell), to break free.
Electricity: Creatures caught in the blast suffer muscle spasms for the next round. This gives them a -z penalty to attack and damage rolls and a -z penalty to Reflex saves. A Fortitude save negates this penalty.

etc. I guess Sonic could do the Will save effect; Acid is stupid.

I could see myself taking that more often than the craptastic evocation spells printed now. With a template like that, we are left with 10 signature direct damage spells; one for each spell level. The fringes of the Evocation school could be filled with Walls and other junk. I know that other schools could benefit from this kind of treatment as well, seeing as there are waaay too many spells to keep track of.

[Catharz]

1175891867[/unixtime]]So let's list a few secondary effects for direct damage spells by type.

Fire

• Reflex save or catch on fire
  
• Will save or be blinded for 1d4 rounds
  
• Fort save or be somethinged

Fortitude save or you're overcome by the smoke. That's usually nausea, right? Or sickened?

1175891867[/unixtime]]Electricity

• Reflex save or be knocked prone
  
• Fort save or be stunned for 1d4 rounds
  
• Will save or be somethinged

Shaken might be a good condition for the will save.

1175891867[/unixtime]]Acid

• Fort save or be... turned into water and a salt?
  
• Reflex save or... be disfigured?
  
• Screw this, acid is a crappy energy type. It isn't even fvcking energy.

It doesn't matter that it isn't "energy," it's still direct damage. And yes, it's best thought of in terms of acid fogs. The 'elemental correspondances' were just dumb.

1175891867[/unixtime]]Cold

• Fort save or be slowed
  
• Will save or something
  
• Reflex save or be stuck in place for an amount of time

Something with shivering

[Judging__Eagle]

Hmm...

Damage types that currently exist or could exist in D&D:

Fire, Earth (called acid, but whatever), Electricity/Wind, Cold/Water.

Positive, Negative.

Good, Evil, Chaos, Law.

Divine. (can be both evil or good divine energy, right?)

Vile.

Force.


Plus a few other very uncommon ones, like City/Shitty damage.

[what am I missing in that list?]

Wizards should normally only get: Fire, Earth, Wind/Electricity, Water/Cold attacks, with Vile and Force attacks to give them soume rounding out in their repetoire.

Clerics get: Divine, Positive, Negative, Force, usually one of Good/Evil and one of Law/Chaos (or all four if they're Neutral); plus usually weaker versions of Fire, Earth, Electricity and Cold.

Hmm, clerics get a pile of damage options.

Oh well, their spells usually do less damage with their spells, or get their spells later than a Wizard did.