Shadowrun Min Max

[Stahlseele]

Ah, right, there is that . .

[Aryxbez]

If it matters, Durations of some drugs will also be much shorter, if the time compensation is not given as well. Since I've thought myself, of making each round 10-seconds, as it would be more aesthetically pleasing to do so.

I think Grenades would also hurt from it, as now it takes 3-4 times as long as a Grenade realistically detonates? (as I recall, the average 3 seconds, now becoming 10-12)

I was pretty sure some other stuff I don't recall at the matter.

[virgil]

While we're at it, let's ask this other question. I know a mage cannot target LoS spells unless he can see them 'naturally', which includes cybereyes. Does this include Augmentation's Radar Sensor, as it overlays its results over their natural vision?

EDIT: Since Physical Mask can mask gear, can it mask a keycard/passkey to to a code that the signal accepts? Would the mage need to get a scan of the item to look at it before being able to mimic it?

[Korwin]

I think not, I asked once the same question, but only go semi coherent answers, about radar sensor not beeing eyeware but headware.

Balancing wise it seems best to not allow it.

[rasmuswagner]

If you've paid essence for the actual sensor, it's natural.

[Lokathor]

It's natural, but not the right kind of natural. It's using a non-sight sense and the converting it via computing into an AR overlay to be added to your imagelink feed.

For the same reasons, you can't use the directional finder in your cyberears to target spells. They're not eyes, even if the data they take in could be converted to vision.

[Korwin]

Was war nochmal der Grund, warum der Radar Sensor nicht reicht um durch die Wand zu zaubern? :twisted:

Spell targeting when it comes to metahumans, for yet unknown reasons, is linked to visually (or alternately astrally) targeting a subject with the sense of sight - and by extension to what the metahuman eye can see. Why this is metahuman thaumaturgy hasn't yet worked out, but whether a spell is LOS or touch it always requires a mystic link (the spell targeting part) that is enabled by the sense of sight (whether physical or astral) - taste, sound, smell and even simple touch do not work.

The sense of sight can be optically or electronically enhanced, but in all cases the mystic connection involved in spell targeting is established by direct stimuli to the eyes (even if from unusual parts of the visual light spectrum.)

The reason Radar Sense and Ultrasound do not work is because they do not translate direct visual stimuli (enhanced or not) into visual sensory data, but instead create an entirely electronic composite visual representation of non-visual sensory data that is placed over your normal vision (or lack thereof) - this digital compositing destroys the mystical connection needed.

Biological echolocation also doesn't work because the sense of sight is not involved, it is a form of "acoustic sensing" (ie. non-visual).

Was offizielleres zu dem Thema gibt es vermutlich nicht (Synner war Line-Dev).

Edit: Important part is the Synner quote

[virgil]

My girlfriend wants to make a variant on one of Mentor spirit archetypes for her character.

Bakeneko Bipedal cat with a forked tail, trickster and chaser amongst spirits.
Benefit: +2 Binding Tests, +2 Summoning Tests OR Drain Resist
Disadvantage: Difficult to give up the thrill of conflict, must make a Willpower + Charisma (3) Test in order to wound to kill unless already wounded; as per the Cat mentor disadvantage.

Bad idea? Good idea? Reflavour and she's got a good idea?

[UmaroVI]

There's 2 mentor spirits that give +2 Something +2 Binding, but nobody gives +2 Summoning outright. I'm not sure it's actually better than +2 Spirit Type, which is both Summoning and Binding for one type, though.

[Lokathor]

It should be +2 with a specific spirit type, not +2 with all Summoning.

Summoning is the God-Mode skill of Shadowrun.

[Stahlseele]

Well, at least she is in the right frame of mind for an SR Min/Max . .

[virgil]

Well, at least she is in the right frame of mind for an SR Min/Max . .

I taught her everything she knows ;P

Tell me whether or not I'm looking at the Spell Design rules incorrectly. I'm looking at making something called the Manawhip. Take the Elemental Aura spell, get rid of its elemental effect, make it a manaspell (consider it an anti-life weapon), shorten the range to touch, restrict it to only monowhips. You've got yourself a spell with DV = (F/2)-3; -2 if keeping it physical is ideal, but still rather potent.

In addition, can a spell like this be made permanent, essentially making it an enchantment?

[Stahlseele]

so, in effect you want to make a car spell, but you want to replace the engine with a reactor and get rid of the tires and restrict it to only drive on water then?

[virgil]

If by car, you mean Elemental Aura, and by removing tires for aquatic venues you mean monowhip...yes? I don't know, your analogy is totally unclear.

Elemental Aura boosts melee DV, but I want to boost a single weapon instead of an entire person. Elemental Aura comes with all sorts of special rider effects, but I want a simple damage boost.

[Stahlseele]

hmm i don't think there is such a mechanic in SR4 . .
what you want is, basically, a magical version of dikote of SR3 fame it seems.
metal elemental effect maybe?
it enhances damage, but it also grants the opponent more armor to resist with i think. and it has no really obvious showy side-effects either as far as i know . . which ain't all that far to begin with i am afraid <.<

[Archmage Joda]

It turns out my group may be playing a shadowrun game in the near future, with the anniversary version of the 4e book as the core, but any supplement allowed. I would like to play a human mage of either the hermetic or chaos magic traditions, but aside from what I just said, I'm feeling rather lost as far as how to spend my BP to be awesome at magic.

Given that there are no houserules implemented here, what advice does the den have for me here?

[Whipstitch]

My simplest piece of advice would be to avoid stressing out too much over your willpower score. Having a maxed out Drain resistance pool is ultimately a luxury and oftentimes you'll be fine just running around with soft-capped Logic, Intuition or Charisma, and those attributes have the benefit of actually doing stuff whereas Willpower is just kind of terrible.

The trickier area is spell selection. The big thing is to avoid picking spells that can be cheaply replicated by mundane means or smart use of summoned Spirits. For example, Magic Fingers is quietly something of a stinker because most of the time you can just summon a low force spirit and have an extra set of hands that way without setting one of your precious starting spell selections on fire. Likewise, the Confusion line of spells amount to just a fancy Flash-Pak in many cases, and that's weak sauce when you could know crap like Trid Phantasm, Shape Metal, Mana Static or Mob Control instead.

The exception to this general rule is the Direct Combat spells and Heal. Power, Stun Or Mana Ball are defensible because they are very potent, perform well against Spirits and because they allow you to always have a pocket nuke on hand without blowing 16 bp on a decent gun skill. Meanwhile, the damage/healing system is constructed in such a way that First Aid and Heal go together like peas and carrots rather than compete for the same turf.

[Stahlseele]

Play an Elf, Possession Tradition. with Charisma as part of the Drain-Pool.
Soft Max Charisma. Maybe Agility too.
Body is important for how much Armor you can wear without Problem, so put something in there at least.
Get Stunbolt/Ball, Improved Invisibility and Levitation at least.
These are basically king. Season to taste with spells you find intriguing enough.
The Improved Concentration Perk is usefull.
Maybe get a Mentor Spirit that gives Bonus dice to stuff you do good, so either something agility or charisma based and either some spell slinging or summoning.
You can't really go wrong with this i think.

[Whipstitch]

Those are solid, but I'd actually take Detect Life, Heal, Shape Metal, Power Bolt, Resist Pain, Turn to Goo, Physical Mask, Trid Phantasm or Mana Static over any of 'em. Likewise Possession traditions make people freak the hell out because "Omg, numbers!" but Materialization is more convenient and is still way powerful.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Mana Static got nerfed recently, now it gradually adds BGC instead of just applying the whole BGC at once. Still good?

Also, can a mage with that astral hazing Negative Quality/mutation/etc. use geomancy to aspect that BGC region towards himself and rock around with +4 Magic dice forever?

[Stahlseele]

no he can't

[virgil]

So, my party is playing a mage, a phys adept, and a hacker. The adept is realizing how much gaming needs to be done to get his first full initiation. I'm using the BP-replaces-Karma houserules I've seen Frank mention; 2/3 Karma reward for adventures as BP, BP costs as per character creation, items with only Karma costs listed are halved except for initiation.

The adept wants to raise Magic from 6 to 7...
* 2 BP to get a rank of Arcana
* 2 BP to join a magical group
* 7 BP for initiating (13-40% from ordeal and group)
* 10 BP for seventh Magic point

We have just finished our eight session & fourth adventure, so the party has earned a total of 14 BP; which would've been about 20 Karma. The mage has the same BP costs ahead of her, but she's more concerned about money at the moment; and is currently (and subtly) holding back on her power so as to not dominate the group.

The adept is expressing concern about it taking so long to advance. Our game is every other week, so this means about 6 months of gaming for his first purchase. From what I calculate, it would take half again as long for him to do this with core Karma advancement; and I'm still handing out BP/Karma faster than the game than the SR4 book seems to expect is average. Is character advancement intended to be this glacial? Even the more typical weekly game means three months for the first initiation (4 to 5 with Karma advancement).

[Stahlseele]

3 months?
not 3 weeks?

[Whipstitch]

I'm afraid that at my table, the answer to the "What's character advancement going to be like?" question was usually eventually became "There is no character advancement."

[virgil]

3 months?
not 3 weeks?

The only way that could possibly work is if you give Karma each session rather than each adventure, and give about 12 each time.