Shadowrun Min Max

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:43 pm

Wait . . First Initiation is . . depending on version of SR played . . Grade+10/11 right?
Ah, right.
And then you need to pay for the next point of Magic using Karma again.
So 7x5?=35 Karma . .
If you don't go with the simple:"Initiation equals Power-Point for Adepts"
Then Grade 1 should be easy to obtain after 3 weeks correct?
Or does the player want the meta tech?

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:07 pm

SR4
* Initiation = (10 + 3xGrade)-40% for group and ordeal = 7
* Increasing Magic = 7x3
* Joining a magical group for the discount = 5 karma
* Getting a point of Arcana to be able to join a group = 4 karma
= 37 karma total; 33 karma for the 2nd initiation

The rules for karma are every adventure, not every session; and I've yet to see an adventure be completed in one session. I've never heard of initiation automatically giving an actual increase to the Magic attribute as a consolation prize to Adepts; which still leaves the mage in the dust.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:28 pm

isn't that one of these optional rules on the side somewhere?
and i am not sure wether or not it's actually magic points of just adept power points . . i am at work, no books here.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:56 am

Karma is implied to work around 4 points per session, but also assumes a run will also be done in one session... can you say missions?

That would come down to approximatly 1 point of karma per hour of gametime.

So adjust the amount of karma you toss at your players, or advancement will be glacial as fuck. On the upside mundanes will not feel overshadowed quite as fast, since they advance with money more than karma.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:46 am

Out of curiosity, is there any advice for a group of players that take advantage of their insider trading and give a contact ¥15.000 to invest? Heck, is there a guideline for creating a more proactive contact to account for the loss of a player who controlled the face?

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:22 pm

I've got one of my players wanting to rebuild his hacker into a hacker-adept, making it a group of two adepts and a mage. Thanks to the decision to retroactively make BP-rewards every session instead of every adventure, everyone now has enough BP to learn Arcana, join a magical group, and initiate.

Right now, the group hasn't given any real opinion on their group preferences. I'm tempted to design one that can handle all three as members, which due to the party composition (Japanese physad, white hacker adept, amerindian satyr mage), would essentially make it something like Benandanti XXV.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:45 am

If you're players want to make their own magic club and everyone is part if, that is great. Mostly because everyone is involved in the same crap. Also reduces widely the problem of "what to spend advancement on" and you can experiment with how much BP to give out without hosing anyone.

Tell the hacker adept he doesn't need cyberware to hack like a pro. Stay in AR, get improved skill for hackz, improved reflex crap and boom, useful and can still do out of hacking stuff without losing magic. If this was his plan anyway... pretend I didn't say nothin'

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:07 pm

I'm looking into ways to create a good reason for a Mr Johnson to hire a team of adepts and a mage for a space mission.

I've tried to research as well as I could regarding Shadowrun and space. I know it's a hard mana void because Earth's manasphere doesn't extend very far. There's been a brief mention of Evo having a colony on Mars with a thin manasphere for research; but I can't find any more details than that sentence.

Is there much in the way of established standards for how much "life" you need in an area to create an independent manasphere? Does attaching it to a planet that may have held life make it more efficient, hence the use of Mars as opposed to Luna or even a simple space station?

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:22 am

Handwave. Also remember that space stations aren't really far out, so a bunch of "specialized plantlife" can do the trick without having to deal with the void of space. I kinda remember space was a warp, not a void, but it's so long ago and Street Magic is like a meter out of my reach, so I leave the checking to you.

Anywho, ARES has a space station filled with plant life as a staging ground to assault the plane insect spirits come from, so it's not that far off to have something like that. Just have reason why a bunch of awakended are a better choice to send up than some cyborg commandos. Nepotism is a valid reason, btw

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:05 am

Warp and Void use the same general mechanics, too much or too little mana gives dice penalties, but Void is when there's no mana, which is space.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:07 am

Depending on your reading of the rules, a cyber-zombie-torso-backpack could help tremendously if i remember correctly . .

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:19 pm

I don't know if this is the right thread to ask for this, but I'd like some advice on making a gunbunny in SR3. Here are the chargen parameters:

Characters will be created with 120 BP see SR3 Companion.

Standard creation rules from SR3 corebook, Rigger3, and Companion.

Adepts see me about other options for your abilities.

Plus if you have a unique concept that requires another book such as voodoo please let me know and we can work something out.

Only 2 modified items per character to start.

Starting Money:
Because of the situation the players are starting with I am caping the starting funds at 500k. The BP for 650k will buy you the 500 max.

Skills:
Etiquette is too broad a skill and needs to be focused to the type of etiquette you are using. So it should be corp, street, matrix, pirate....etc. If you have a question on what etiquette to use or want to add one PM me and we will discuss.

Edges and Flaws:
No trouble here. Just make sure they fit with your character and know that if you put it in there I can guarantee you it will come up in game play at some point.

Currently, my plan is a Night One Adept with 1 Essence worth of ware (cybereyes for smartlink/visual magnification and datajack), specializing in dual wielding pistols and possibly grenade launchers for more oomph. I want to be effective in combat as a first priority, while being good at physical stunts and athleticism after that.

Any advice you could give me on which adept powers et al to pick, or if I should even be going full adept in the first place?

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:08 am

Savalette Guardian and Ruger Super Warhawk are your best friends, depending on style.
The Guardian probably more so than the Warhawk.
It's a heavy burst fire pistol.
So 9M on single shot.
12S on Burst Fire. Add in ExEx Ammo and you are at 14S damage. Yes, that's close to sniper rifle damage already. And if you load Gel-Rounds, it's an automatic knock down on any target you hit. Which is hillarious to use on anything larger than yourself. Technically, you can force a bear or something even bigger than that down onto the ground using that rule.
i would not go for a complete set of eyes i think.
And how set are you on being an elf, especially a night one?
Because as a dorf, you get infradead eyes and then you put 2 points into the night vision edge and have natural low-light-vision already.
Then you put a light system into your fleshy eyes and get magnification as adept power. and then if you really want to do close range combat with guns the smartlink. Hell, you could even go for astral perception as well and get flash compensation as adept power to boot. there is literally nothing you can not see by that point.
Low-Light with Light System means even under total darkness, you are at a . . +2 maximum i think. In Smoke, Infradead helps. Invisible enemies? Astral perception, there you go!
since you ain't going for rigger stuff, obviously, getting boosted reflexes and plastic bone-lace both on alpha should be looked at. obviously, you will have to decide on what is more important to you. the smartlink(which is only better at close range combat than the eye magnification) or bones or boosted reflexes 1.

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:23 am

Stahlseele wrote:Savalette Guardian and Ruger Super Warhawk are your best friends, depending on style.
The Guardian probably more so than the Warhawk.
It's a heavy burst fire pistol.
So 9M on single shot.
12S on Burst Fire. Add in ExEx Ammo and you are at 14S damage. Yes, that's close to sniper rifle damage already. And if you load Gel-Rounds, it's an automatic knock down on any target you hit. Which is hillarious to use on anything larger than yourself. Technically, you can force a bear or something even bigger than that down onto the ground using that rule.

Low-Light with Light System means even under total darkness, you are at a . . +2 maximum i think. In Smoke, Infradead helps. Invisible enemies? Astral perception, there you go!

Oh, this is good gun advice.

i would not go for a complete set of eyes i think.

Hrm, why not?

And how set are you on being an elf, especially a night one?

I went with elf because QUickness apparently = win and Night Ones have moar Quickness...

Also, because of this.

Because as a dorf, you get infradead eyes and then you put 2 points into the night vision edge and have natural low-light-vision already.
Then you put a light system into your fleshy eyes and get magnification as adept power. and then if you really want to do close range combat with guns the smartlink. Hell, you could even go for astral perception as well and get flash compensation as adept power to boot. there is literally nothing you can not see by that point.

I'm always a fan of +perception and modes. Information gathering is important.

since you ain't going for rigger stuff, obviously, getting boosted reflexes and plastic bone-lace both on alpha should be looked at. obviously, you will have to decide on what is more important to you. the smartlink(which is only better at close range combat than the eye magnification) or bones or boosted reflexes 1.

Do boosted reflexes stack with adept IP augments?

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:13 am

not sure actually if they stack . .
i am thinking no. precious little in terms of initiative stacks.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:09 pm

The other pretty much OP heavy Pistol is the good old Ares Viper Slivergun.
Heavy Pistol, 9S(flechette) at single fire and 12D(f) on burst fire against unarmored targets. Silenced as well with a fuck huge ammo capacity. It's basically a needler SMG compressed down to heavy pistol size. The perfect critter-killer, if you don't have a rifle or shotgun handy.
Concealability of 6, so with a concealed holster it's an 8 and under a long coat it's a 12 TN to spot it.
For non leathal in terms of Pistols use the Savalette or the Ruger Super Warhawk with Gel-Ammo.
Or use a dart pistol. Gamma-Scopolamine-Arrows. 10D Stun Damage and after the target wakes up it lowers willpower i think, so it makes resisting interrogation harder, acting like somewhat of a truth serum as well.
Precious little will help actually resisting that damage, only specialized cyber/bio i think. So it's natural body only, not even cybered body from limbs, bones or dermal tech to stage down 10D. And due to how the damage system works, if you hit somebody and they take 10D stun and then you hit them again, they take 10D stun which goes straight to 10D physical. 2 darts will, by this rule, kill most anything aside from tougher spirits and critters.

and i still maintain that a dorf is the better choice. higher quickness, in chargen and later on, only means higher combat pool. the dorf does this via his higher willpower instead, but the dorf also gains str and bod and somewhat immunity against toxins and diseases, probably because dorfs can live in troll shoes, which is kinda a bit more important in combat. the only thing higher qck will help with is running speed(which, admittedly, the dorf severely lacks due to only a 2x instead of 3x run multiplicator) and skill cost when you wanna raise it with karma.
for this, the dorf is shorter. which, aside from the short jokes, little gags and miniscule plays on words means he should be able to hide better and can utilize more things as cover. the lower running multiplicator doesn't mean as much for somebody who does ranged combat as it does to somebody who does close range damage.
also, the dorf is cheaper in char-gen too.

make the character in NSRCG3 as an elf and a dorf and run the numbers.

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:36 am

I'll do that. I also picked Borrowed Time because I have little faith in the GM, and if he does turn out to be good I'll have Mr. Fixit replace Sam Shotfirst.

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:40 am

SR5 question: is it better for a gunbunny to have technical or social skills as a sideline?

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:33 am

Seeing how most gunbunnies are going to be elves because of the agility boost, charisma related skills will be a good synergy again.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:52 am

Okay, so I've joined an IRC Shadowrun (5Ed) game. I should note that this is the first I've dabbled with 5th Edition, and honestly if the game goes ahead it will be the first time I've played Shadowrun that actually got to the first session before the MC contracted aardvark leprosy or something.

The gist is that we're all big-time Runners who have been living the good life in a massive mansion full of drugs, prostitutes, fake art pieces and such, with mad gear, living off our profits... but forgot to pay for our actual house. Now we have all this stuff but no actual money and have one month to come up with a million nuyen or we lose our sweet living space.

It's been promised that the game will be a bit silly, going back to the "Pink Mohawk" days, and we'll end up doing runs, trying to save up, spending most of our money on stuff because we're out of control, and "hilarious sit-com hijinks" where we get office jobs and such.

So it sounds like a blast. I decided to go Street-Sam (the others are a Rigger and a Magician), partly because it involves not interacting with the hacking or magic rules and playing "basic". And partly because I want designer-brand strontium-plated teeth.

Now I only have the core book, should I also get one of the gun-porn books for this? Creation is the experienced/high-profile variant (35 Karma, Priority A for money is 500K etc), and I was thinking of doing the following:
A) MONEY
B) Skills
C) Attributes
D) Metatype (Human)
E) Magic

What kind of rating do I want my Reaction, Agility and so on to be at? What sized dice pools are considered "acceptable" for a player character with tasks they really mean to do? Which augmentations are must-haves? I assume that Agility and Initiative are game-winners here, is that correct?

Initial plans, pending someone more experienced (anyone) swooping in and saying "NO" is to get level 2 alphaware wired reflexes, a little bit of muscle replacement, plated bones, put a datalink in my head etc. and just go to town with an Ares pistol and a Yamaha Raiden (with a skill of 4-5 and Agility of 3-4 +1 from muscle replacement, smartlinked up wirelessly for another +2 dice or whatever). The katana will be carried just for the looks, because it's pink mohawk. And I'll drive an APC with a machinegun on top, because why not.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:11 pm

SR5 has no Porn Books yet.
Only core is out as of right now.
Reaction is there to dodge, which is kinda better than trying to soak damage, so fairly high.
Agility is used for all combaty skills, so high as well.
Acceptable Dice-Pools for characters in their specialisation start at 10 without mods. So Attribute 5 and Skill 5 at least.
A Good Shot straight out of chargen can get up to 20 dice in shooty stuffs using some mods i guess.
Initiative is important, yes, but also much more hit and miss than it was in SR4, due to it being back to SR3. It's reaction +xD6 now.
And then you compare who has the highest. And after every pass, you lose 10 points of ini. As long as you are above 0, you get another go.
So at Ini 1 is 1 go, at Ini 11 is 2, at Ini 21 is 3 etc.
This can be changed by damage taken by the character.
Muscle-Replacement? Really now? Not Bioware Muscles?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:43 am

Muscle Replacement gives you +1 STR and +1 AGI (times the rating), Bioware Muscles just give +2 STR. Now sure, the character will carry a katana because it's a thousand bucks, who cares, but the idea is not to specialise in swords, so I don't care too much about having MASSIVE STRENGTH.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:20 am

So this is what I think I'll go with, tentatively. As tempting as it was to go "Exotic Firearms" and take a cyber-arm with built-in grapple, for maximum "GET OVER HERE".

Name: "Lucky Sevens" Terry Creed
Metatype: Human
Age: 29
Sex: Male


BODY	3	4
AGI	6	7
REA	4	6
STR	3	4
WIL	2	2
LOG	2	2
INT	3	3
CHA	2	2
EDG	5	5
ESS	6	0.2
INI	7	9+3d6

(third column is after augmentations are applied)

Mental Limit: 3
Physical Limit: 6
Social Limit: 3

Acting Skill Group 4
-Con (7)
-Impersonation (10)
-Performance (7)
Stealth Skill Group 2
Disguise (5)
Palming (9)
Sneaking (9)
Agility Skills:
-Automatics 5 (12)
**Specialty: Yamaha Raiden (14)
-Blades 3 (10)
-Heavy Weapons 2 (9)
-Lockpicking 2 (9)
-Pistols 4 (11)
Reaction Skills:
-Pilot Ground 2 (8)
Charisma Skills:
-Intimidation 3 (5)
-Leadership 3 (5)
-Negotiation 4 (6)
Intuition Skills:
-Perception 3 (6)
-Tracking 2 (5)
Willpower:
-Survival 2 (4)

Languages:
-English (N)
-Spanish 2 (4)
Interest Knowledges:
-Drug Culture 2 (5)
Street Knowledges:
-Gang ID 2 (5)
-Smuggling 4 (7)

Qualities:
Guts (10)
Moderate Novacoke Addiction (-9)
Distinctive Style (-5)

Contacts:
Green Pete Diggins, in the stock exchange
-Connections 3, Loyalty 4

Gear:
Commlink (Hermes Ikon with Hot-Sim)
Alphaware Wired Reflexes 2
Olfactory Booster 5
Voice Modulator 3
Simrig
Cybereyes 2
-Smartlink
-Thermographic
-Enhancement 3
Cyberears 2
-Enhancement 2
-Damper
-Spatial Recogniser
-Select Filter 3
Alphaware Plastic Bone Lacing
Alphaware Muscle Replacement 1

Docwagon Gold Contract (1 year)
Ares Roadmaster
-heavy mount: Stoner-Ares M202 (roll 11 limit 5, damage 10P, AP -3 Mode FA, RC -, Ammo 100belt)
--1 ammo belt
--smartlink
Full Body Armour (Armour 15)
Ebony Credstick (empty)
3x Fake SIN rating 3
Crowbar
Rating 6 Autopicker

Ares Predator V (attack: roll 13 limit 7*, damage 8P, AP -1, Mode SA, RC -, Ammo 15c)
-External Smartgun System
-4 clips of ammo
Yamaha Raiden (attack: roll 15 limit 8*, damage 11P, AP -2, Mode BF/FA, RC 1 (-3), Ammo 60c)
-Gas Vent 3
-External Smartgun System
-3 clips of ammo
-1 clip of explosive rounds (damage 12P, AP -3)
Katana (reach 1, roll 10 limit 7, damage 7, AP -3)

60,675 spent on clothes and drugs, not a penny remaining

Remaining Karma: 2

*I assume when a gun has Accuracy X (Y), the (Y) is for when it's smartlinked wirelessly?

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:19 am

no idea how limits work, sorry.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:30 am

Limits are what ruin your fun: that's the maximum hits you can roll on a single test. If you spend Edge before rolling, you can add Edge to the dice pool, gain the lucky sixes rule and ignore limits. Your Physical, Mental and Social limits depend on your stats, but weapons instead use their inherent Accuracy stat (instead of giving you an accuracy bonus to the attack roll - at first I thought the "accuracy 8" for the Raiden meant "add 8 dice, that's 23!") You use the weapon's accuracy as the limit regardless of Physical limit - it could be zero or a billion, you still use the weapon's accuracy.

So basically, when firing with the Raiden, I can roll 15 dice but only get to keep eight hits. But sometimes can go "FUS RO DAH!" and roll 20 dice exploding and keep as many as I damn well please.

I found it odd to see that characters have variable hit boxes. It is quickly occurring to me that the Shadowrun people are used to on the Den, the Shadowrun that people like and that Frank has spoken highly of/worked on, is actually four, not five, and this is their new "save our company" one.