Shadowrun Min Max

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:11 am

Empathy Software provides a dice pool bonus rather than a skill modifier, so it's effectively uncapped. Personally, I just ban them.

I mean, really, here's the stuff emotitoys and emp softs bring to the table:

1. Players who don't want to spring for empsoft feel punished for not bringing Tickle Me Elmo dolls to black tie events. That's because the rating 6 emotitoy is seriously powerful enough that it routinely outweighs the penalties you take for looking like a dingus despite being way cheap.

2. They're so cheap that every savvy character has the damn things anyway in a system built on opposed tests. So much of the time it's just senseless dice pool escalation that doesn't give anyone any sort of consistent advantage since it's so ubiquitous. The only times it really matters is when dealing with characters who would otherwise have social pools well within likely glitch range territory or when people start making exceptional rolls, at which point net hits can end up being swingier than usual.

So, yeah, they won't ruin your game or anything. But at the same time, you can totally leave them out and save yourself the time it takes to add them to your character sheet and pretty much nobody will care.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:27 pm

What is the best Materialization Tradition, custom or otherwise? My girlfriend has chosen the following build (previous house rules mentioned)

Attributes [230BP]
Body 6
Agility 4
Reaction 4
Strength 3
Charisma 2
Intuition 5
Logic 2
Willpower 5
Magic 5
Edge 1
Initiative 8

Skills [102BP]
Conjuring 4
Summoning 1 (X Spirit)
Spellcasting 4
Counterspelling 4
Assensing 3
Astral Combat 3
Infiltration 4
Perception 3
Exotic Weapons 2 (Monowhip)
Shadowing 2
Negotiation 1
Athletics 4
Climbing (Building Scaling)
Running (Urban)
Gymnastics 1 (Parkour)
Hacking (Stealth) 1
Parkour Counter-Culture 4
Knowledge 20 (split or otherwise)

Spells [24BP] Turn to Goo, Shape Metal, Physical Mask, Improve Reflexes, Stunball, Trid Phantasm, Levitate, Extended Detect Life

Contacts [5BP]
Talismonger (Connection 2, Loyalty 4), Blogger (Connection 2, Loyalty 2), Beat Cop (Connection 3, Loyalty 1)

Gear [28BP]
Monowhip Foci w/Personalized Grip (13.1k)
Gecko Tape Gloves (.25k)
Rappelling Gloves w/100m Microwire (.12k)
OXSYS Artificial Gill (1k)
Scent-masking Aerosol 100 doses (1k)
Fake SIN w/Magic License 6 (7.2k)
Magesight Goggles (2k)
Cybereyes 2 (.75k)
Vision Magnification (1k)
Thermographic (1k)
Vision Enhance 3 (4.5k)
Flare Compensation (.75k)
Form Fitting Body Armor 9/7 (1.6k)
Gel Packs (1.5k)
Nonconductivity 6 (1.2k)
Insulation 6 (.9k)
Fire Resistance 6 (.6k)
SecureTech PPP 2/4 (.9k)
Steampunk Outfit 8/8 (2.25k) = 17/15
Gel Packs (1.5k)
Armor Jacket w/Helmet 8/8 (.95k)
Ruthenium Polymers (7.5k)
Thermal Damping 6 (3k) -.35
Internal Commlink 3/3 (2.8k)
Power Focus 3 (75k)
Fake License 6 (.6k)
Binding Materials [3k]
Credstick (3.275k)

Negative Qualities (35)
Spirit Bane (x)
Incompetant: Pilot Aerospace
Bad Luck

Positive Qualities (20)
Magician
Astral Chameleon

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:46 pm

For spirits, I'm partial to Task, Guardian, Oracle, Earth, Air

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:37 am

Reading a thread on the implications of orc fecundity, especially with Lexitus's points. Holy crap, that's a worse dystopia than I could've possibly expected.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:17 am

If you're going materialization task spirits aren't that great, since they can't percieve material objects in detail, which means summoning a spirit of car maintenance or whatever is gonna go straight out the window. Spirits of Man are hardcore awesome thanks to innate spell. Fire spirits are great bruisers, and so are Guardian spirits.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:41 am

Customized cyberlimbs (Augmentation p. 44). Do those require you to actually have the stats that you're setting them to? It's kinda implied but not stated, and cyberlimbs could really use the boost.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:51 am

@Virgil: Fasanomics makes so much so much worse than it is pictured in the fluff.

@rasmuswagner
No you don't need the stats you want in your Limbs.
That's one of the reasons people actually get them.
Because it's easier to buy strength than to train it.
And a human can be 1(9) without problem.
As a Human, you don't even need a Cyber-Torso for this.
Thank Frank for making CyberLimbs actually worth it for a change.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:34 pm

I've got a player wanting to use qualities from Runner's Companion (lost loved one, flashbacks, trust fund, distinctive style). I've heard naught but vitriol about this book; would it be a bad idea to crush his dreams and tell him to remove those qualities? I need to dig through my records to even know what these do, as those specific qualities might actually be acceptable options.

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:47 pm

They're actually not terrible.
Although, Distinctive style is like.. being the Joker. Noone ever goes, "Jee I wonder who did this Crime.. they all know who it is." So if your guy has Distinctive Style, that can cause campaign problems unless he's super careful about his identity.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:59 pm

I would shoot that character down not because of RC material, but because it looks like a tortured, maybe misunderstood, soul. Wouldn't be suprised if distinctive style is 'brooding and mysterious'. The shadows don't really need emo rich kids working through being dumped by their girlfriends.

Yes, I'm an ass.

RC stuff rarely does anything. It's also edited poorly and sometimes opens rules questions that seem to be holdover from last editions. Be wary of them, read it up, see if you want to work with them. If you don't want to crush dreams, at least.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:14 pm

This is what my player sent. He's basically taking the idea of being an elf with an obvious cyberarm to be his Distinctive Quality; which from an outside perspective would be a bit weird, as cybernetics aren't so uncommon it'd be distinctive unless he made them bright orange with Cola adverts or something. I'm a little reticent on the Distinctive Style for that purpose, as my original statement of books to use didn't include Runner's Companion; and I've got another player playing a satyr (w/out distinctive quality)!

Next, I'm piecing together my background and it is coming together, but with the cyber arm I might have a problem. In short, the back story to explain certain things is that I was out with my wife one evening and got caught in a shadow run. In the process, she dies (lost loved one -5), I saved the life of a Trid investigative reporter (contact 5/6), and in the process lost my arm. That also explains (Flashbacks - Uncommon), (Addiction (Mild-alcohol), and why I started shadow running. I was a completely legal SINer (5 pts) that was Born Rich(maybe, still working points) and Trust Fund (High), which would give me a completely legal, high lifestyle hidey hole if I need to go to ground!
But here is the problem, the arm is an Obvious Full arm which would be recognizable for my real ID. I've taken (Distinctive Style 1), but that seems too mild for something this obvious. Besides, I'm figuring that with my pheromones and elfin good looks I'm already covered on Distinctive Style 1. Is it possible to have the arm have a 'quick disconnect' which I could use to replace the obvious arm with a synthetic arm for use in my real ID? For story purposes, I would have originally gone for the synthetic, but when I decided to run (because of what I found out or who did what to who, or whatever .... fill in details here) I wanted a beefier arm with all the augments. For what it is worth, I do have a back-up idea, but it wouldn't work as well as being able to swap arms. I realize that this entails purchasing both arms at startup if you will go for it.

On a related note, I tried to figure out the demographics on the satyr player; and since apparently almost all of them are magically talented, there's about as many satyr mages as there are plain ork mages; presuming magic talent is 1% for the standard metahuman (rather than the 1 in 10k I heard bandied about).

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:21 pm

Distinctive style ain't THAT bad . .
All it does is give +2 dice for search checks concerning the character . .
Trust Fund simply adds 25k or so more Nuyen you can spend on gear IN CHARACTER GENERATION ALONE, as far as i know. Don't spend it all in one go in the beginning? Tough, it's gone in game anyway.
lost loved ones i have no idea about, aside from it being a hook for the GM.
flashbacks means he has a trigger and he needs to make a composure test with willpower and something else i think to not lock down on the spot.
depends entirely on the trigger and situation.

i have no idea why he want's to be a subhuman and not one of the new master race of orks though . .

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:26 pm

It seems SINner might be more appropriate to cover that armthingy. DisStyle also is not "you are really pretty". There are poeple out there standing out more, being WAY better looking thanks to surgery and genetic modifications. For DisStyle his cyberarm need to double as a billboard, or something like that. You REALLY stand out.

Also from that description Flashbacks might be triggered by people being shot at. That might be worth a couple more points than he thought.

Winnah · Post by **Winnah** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:25 pm

Technically, all advanced character options in Runners Companion suffer from the Distinctive Style quality, though they do not gain points from it. I guess that applies to metavariants.

There is a sidebar on page 104 of Runners Companion; Lots of weasel words about cultural definitions of 'distinctive' and how it is up to each group to determine what it really means. Examples include a bright green mohawk, blatantly artificial cybereyes and cyber-limb or body alteration fetishists.

An example from a previous edition would be a character with the handle Burnout. A quadraplegic Rigger that had to have a supercharger and flame details on everything with an engine, including his tricked out wheelchair. He had the habit of revving loudly whenever he was bored, picking a fight, or just wanted someone to stop talking.

As for Satyrs, RC says they are the dominant Ork metatype around the mediterranean, particularly Greece. They can pop up anywhere where people have Greek ancestry.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:07 pm

Winnah wrote:Technically, all advanced character options in Runners Companion suffer from the Distinctive Style quality, though they do not gain points from it. I guess that applies to metavariants.

It would, yes, but I wasn't planning on using Runner's Companion to begin with. As it stands, the satyr isn't getting any different stats/abilities from a standard ork other than aesthetic. The numbers I came up with were from comparing modern ethnic demographics (assuming 1-3% Greek) and applying them to FDC's numbers and metavariant population. On a metahuman basis, there aren't many satyrs; but there are slightly more satyrs than 'plain' orks w/magic talent, so in terms of actual legwork advantage, I figured it wouldn't really make a difference.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:26 pm

On a related debate, I'm trying to decide whether I should have some larger campaign arc for the group. Their last SR campaign apparently involved a couple runs through Renraku and they did a fair bit of Dunkelzhan's Will, so apparently they're going to be at least somewhat used to setting-significant events happening; and I'd like to provide something similar.

It's the year 2071, the current heads of SR are going into crazy-town, so I can safely ignore their setting direction from this point on. It will be set in FDC, so there's going to be major political everything going on; what with Dunkelzhan's Rift, the seat of the UCAS gov't, the Earth-side HQ of Zurich, the Corporate Court, the Illuminates of the New Dawn...

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:57 pm

It pretty much depends on your players. If they want an overarcing plot, or run of the week, or a mix. You can even start with run of the week stuff and see how it goes and afterwards change it into conspiracy plot number 17b. Ignoring the setting as you see fit is a very smart move, but before you start changing stuff your players assume is true (ie stuff like Denver that is stupid, but rather big), make sure everyone is on the same page.

The only real question is if your group will enjoy the effort you put into it. My vote would be 'go big!'.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:37 pm

What are your players like?
cuatious? paranoid? take nothing at face value?
just give them enough rope to hang themselves with.
make it an open world, get the group together in game, if that has not happened already, have them do one thing and see how it works out.
if they blow shit up, make it a men on the run campaign, because of course the politicians need to crack down on terrorism like that hardish . .

if they don't blow shit up, tempt them with a little extra cash by finding some interesting data about some politicians tastes . . like, for example, the humanis favourite actually likes to be fucked up the ass with a strap-on by old ork women while he blows a troll dude . . and see what they make of that.

that's the beauty of shadowrun. there is literally nothing you can't do, because it's got it all. racism, fantasy, transhumanism, cyberpunk, noir, the works . .

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:54 am

So, figured I'd get some constructive help on the SR forums and posted what I'm doing so far. Not terribly heartening; and I'm told point-blank that I should use Runner's Companion (especially KarmaGen), halving skill costs breaks the game, I shouldn't think about using house-rules for my first time running the game to a significant degree, and all I'm doing is taking to heart spouted BS...

kzt · Post by **kzt** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:27 am

My impression is that many Dumpshock users have recovered from the Kool-aid, while most people using the other forum are still savoring the sweet grape flavor.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:38 am

@virgil
fuck that shit, only because it's official does not mean it's the better board . .
house rule anything that irks you, see rule 0, it's there for a reason damn it..

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:40 pm

German karma gen is actually very good

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:31 pm

Most of the German SR4 stuff is vastly superior to the american shit . .

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:52 pm

Coolaid drinking is a real problem on the official forums. For instance I've had a MC tell that you can't break the system, that I could bring anything I wanted. When he said that he believed it. The infuriating thing is that after the rocks fell he still believed it.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:01 pm

The power of denial. Flavored with some good, old, new and improved cool aid.

I actually DON'T like the German stuff since one of the books für 2nd edition I believe had a gun that shot several types of ammo in the same clip, from granades, to more grandes, garnished with flechette. Just a mess for bookkeeping. Not sure if it could fire bursts, though... also the had a plasma gun, that did stun dmg and you weren't allowed to resist it. Dmg code was 14D. Yeah. They also changed a couple of core rules for reasons that range from "It's more realistic" to plain "we like it that way". I didn't pay to play your game. I paid to play a translation of Shadowrun, thank you very much.

Fuck German SR.