Fighting games that emphazise real martial arts qualities ?

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silva
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Fighting games that emphazise real martial arts qualities ?

Post by silva »

I know this idea would work better in a videogame, but what about a game of martial artists in a quest for perfection and enlightment ? Ideally, a game that reflected.different styles more or less accurately and even portraykn some known masters (perhaps the game is situates in the orient in century XIX ?).

Im a martial arts enthusiast and always wanted to see a game like that. The nearest Ive seen was games like Bushido Blade and Kengo (this last one actually portrays some real styles and masters). Neither are about unarmed combat, unfoftunately.

Does such a game exist ? If not, how could it be implemented ? The first idea that comes to mind is take Riddle of Steel combat as a base for ideas, sincd its the most verossimile I know of in rpgs.
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Heisenberg
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Post by Heisenberg »

I have heard I think it is Exalted compared to a fighting video game in how its actions are resolved.
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler »

I've honestly never looked at it in much depth because it is definitely not my thing, but GURPS Martial Arts lays out a ton of detail on various styles and the components thereof to an impressive amount of detail, including breaking it up into what claims are realistic and which are claimed but not necessarily realistic (in GURPS terms, Cinematic options).

The discussion does include older Asian unarmed styles, but there are other things too - I think my primary use of the style discussions so far has been the writeup of the quarterstaff fighting style for my more physical mages.

Note, though, that this is largely about the physical interactions - this book doesn't really even try to cover any spiritual side to any of this - but it seems worth considering for the detailed descriptions of the styles, if nothing else.
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silva
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Post by silva »

Gurps MA is indeed awesome, and could be a nice source for ideas and inspiration.

But the game scope would be much more than just the arts from a mechanical point of view - I thought about giving it a philosophical, mystical and even mythical vibe of sorts. Perhaps the characters would begin as mundane, realistic fighters, but then evolve to do the kind of fantastical feats you see surrounding some granmasters (like Aikido's O-sensei Ueshiba and his feats of making opponents fall with a single finger touch). Thats why I thought the game should be located in someancient or old age, where those masters and styles were around.

A big problem I see is making it work for a group of players, since the premise is very much individual at its essense. How others pure fighting games do about that ? How does Street Fighter Rpg does that ?
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momothefiddler
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Post by momothefiddler »

I've played Mage games that had that sort of "master of the art" thing going but allowed for multiple players through the different 'styles' doing different things - one character can work at attaining perfection through the internal alchemy that is reflected by her expertise in the world of Matter, while another strives for inner peace as reflected in her skill in Mind, and they can both meanwhile cooperate on challenges in the outside world because they have different abilities.

This didn't go well, but I don't know how much of that was due to the mechanics being a mess, how much was due to the groups OOC social dynamic being a wreck, and how much was actually an inherent problem.

But the basic idea seems sound - everyone can be "the best" if that means "the best at what they do" and "what they do" differs per character. On the other hand you're gonna require niches and niche protection from the outset of design, which would probably turn me off to the idea immediately.
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Post by Sakuya Izayoi »

Maybe some sort of Amber Diceless system, where stats are relative; you don't have an agility of 69, rather, you're the fastest character at the table, another guy might be the strongest, and a third might have internalized the most wisdom regarding Saṃsāra and the path of Buddha.

From there, you also have your mastery of specific styles. Each style has a rock-paper-scissor relation with other styles. Before styles are compared, the fastest and strongest guy always wins. But master a style that trumps the style of your opponent outright, and you can overcome one or several advantages they have.

Like Tenra Bansho Zero and Shadowrun, Karma can be the currency of advancement, and give you the spiritual ties you seek. Take too many advantages in character creation, and you dip into negative karma. Meditation, exercise, education, and positive actions, relieve you of karmic debt, or create a surplus that can be advantageous in a tie.

It might not suit your taste, but it's something that came to mind, especially since I feel it's hard to create satisfying martial arts stories off an RNG.
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Post by OgreBattle »

Silva, take a look at Riddle of Steel for a game that was meant to portray realistic fighting. It's focused on weapons but it works unarmed too. It's about betting a certain amount of action points for the success of your action, with the points refreshing every two exchanges. Defenses are active. It's not perfect but it's got a good basic idea.

Also look at http://www.fightmetric.com/
This website keeps a database of what maneuvers MMA fighters use, the percentage of accuracy and all that.

Here's the stats they track

SLpM: Significant strikes per minute
Str. Acc.: Significant Strike Accuracy
SApM: Significant Strikes Absorbed per minute
Str. Def.: Significant Strike Defense

Takedown Average: How many takedowns attempted per minute
Takedown Accuracy: How successful they are
Takedown Defense: How successful they are at stopping takedowns

----

Looking at MMA videogames, here's what the Pride FC game used for stats:

Stand Punch
Stand Kick
Mount Pounding
Takedowns
Submissions
Endurance

With the following maneuvers:
Strike to head (punch/kick)
Strike to body (punch/kick)
Submission (standing/full mount/side mount)
Takedown
Catch Strike (punch and kick are separate)

-------

The minimal amount of skills I'd go with in an in depth martial arts game would be...

-Standup
-Grappling
-Ground

Then each of those 3 would be divided into striking and submission. I'd go with a stamina point system where you bet X amount of points towards the maneuver you're using with a rock/paper/scissors element of action declaration.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by fectin »

For silva? Exalted 2E sidereal martial arts. Get Scroll of the Monk and go crazy.
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Post by Koumei »

Whatever system you go with, make sure it's possible to beat your opponent by bleeding all over them or swinging them in circles.
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Post by Sakuya Izayoi »

Don't go with a blow by blow, 3 second rounds system if you want something like JoJo's with fast, furious strikes (ORAORAORAORAORA!) and opportunities to narrate the bizarre.
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Post by talozin »

I'm not sure exactly how accurately you mean by "accurately" but it might be worth having a read through The Ultimate Martial Artist book (for Champions). Yes, it's Champions, but as long as GURPS is on the table, why not? There are significant chunks of the book dedicated to how to do "realistic" or "wuxia-style" martial arts within the confines of those rules, rather than just doing four-color superhero martial arts. It has a fairly extensive library of styles and discussion on how to differentiate different flavors of kung fu and so on.

The original Top Secret game had a complex hand-to-hand combat system where the players actually picked different moves off a list (a fairly extensive one, if the character used martial arts) and cross-referenced them against what their opponent was doing to get results. I have no idea how well it actually reflected real world martial arts (probably not very, since it was designed for a spy game), but it always seemed like the sort of design element someone else would pick up and reuse in a burst of (stupidity, genius, insanity: pick one).
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Re: Fighting games that emphazise real martial arts qualities ?

Post by rasmuswagner »

silva wrote:I know this idea would work better in a videogame, but what about a game of martial artists in a quest for perfection and enlightment ? Ideally, a game that reflected.different styles more or less accurately and even portraykn some known masters (perhaps the game is situates in the orient in century XIX ?).
You need to be clearer in your definitions.

Do you want a game that expresses the philosophy and "theory of how the world works" of a given martial arts school? Do you expect susch a system to be able to encompass multiple mutually exclusive worldviews? Or do you want a game about realistic fighting tournaments?
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fectin
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Post by fectin »

It's silva. Take a guess.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
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