I heard of Monte Cook's Ptolus campaign setting, and I bought it. I liked it, and I enjoyed it.
Of course, the real reason why I am posting this is to ask several of you guys if it really "fits D&D 3.5 like a glove."
So, does it?
So what about Ptolus?
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Judging__Eagle
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Re: So what about Ptolus?
I DL'd some maps for free?
No idea.
I can't use most stock campaign settings due to the way that my gaming group plays and meets and schedules.
We seriously can only play in a cohesive and logical fashion if I can, at any time remove or add PCs on the fly to an adventure.
Which I can do in a logical fashion b/c the PCs work for a paranoid demi-plane living wizard that plane-shifts and teleports them to where he needs them. Since they're a part of his expansive mercenary force, nearly any PC type can be assigned to who ever is on assignment at any time (players can make different alternate PCs, but can only use one at any one time).
No idea.
I can't use most stock campaign settings due to the way that my gaming group plays and meets and schedules.
We seriously can only play in a cohesive and logical fashion if I can, at any time remove or add PCs on the fly to an adventure.
Which I can do in a logical fashion b/c the PCs work for a paranoid demi-plane living wizard that plane-shifts and teleports them to where he needs them. Since they're a part of his expansive mercenary force, nearly any PC type can be assigned to who ever is on assignment at any time (players can make different alternate PCs, but can only use one at any one time).
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
Re: So what about Ptolus?
I read some of the ebook versions before, frankly, losing interest.
Its a Monte creation, which implies some wackiness (and the occassional bad bit of editing that seems to haunt every single RP product nowadays because, apparently, people just can't be bothered).
Examples of wackiness- the Inverted Pyramid prestige class/classes (technically 3 1 level prestige classes) with stupidly restrictive RP requirements that mean that the PCs will never get to take them, or the DM will simply handwave the requirements away. (Must be a member of the organization for 5 years? Sure. Whatever. I'll be 20th level in 9 months of game time. Why do want me to care?)
Anyway the this particular PrC is designed to shoe-horn some of the AE magic system into D&D. Ladening, weaving, etc. Neat, but kind of a 'so what? angle. But because they are technically seperate single level classes, they reset the BAB and save progression... so if you want a +6 to will saves, they're good. But everything else will be even more shitty.
Ultimately, the city as a whole does fit 3.5 like a glove. Which is to say, its utterly lacking in distinctiveness and character. Blahblahblah...city on the edge of a fading empire... small cults of scheming outsiders with weird fetishes... cemetary full of undead held back by the 20th level druid kicking back on a park-like island... Nothing resembling an actual economic basis or infrastructure, just a giant fantasy city with convenient dungeons so you don't have to be bothered with that pesky wilderness travel stuff.
There are some neat ideas here and there, don't get me wrong, but its just carries too much of the blandness of the current products. 'Everything but the kitchen sink' doesn't tend to feel right as a design philosophy- if the ideas were culled and what remained was thought out and justified, it might work. As is, it doesn't. Though I was pleasantly surprised there weren't 500 new templates and half-critters. The lack is something of a surprise from Monte.
Basically its Waterdeep and Undermountain all over again. But without the background material (of whatever quality, so that may be a bonus for some folks), and with an expectation that there won't really be any consistent support for it.
Its a Monte creation, which implies some wackiness (and the occassional bad bit of editing that seems to haunt every single RP product nowadays because, apparently, people just can't be bothered).
Examples of wackiness- the Inverted Pyramid prestige class/classes (technically 3 1 level prestige classes) with stupidly restrictive RP requirements that mean that the PCs will never get to take them, or the DM will simply handwave the requirements away. (Must be a member of the organization for 5 years? Sure. Whatever. I'll be 20th level in 9 months of game time. Why do want me to care?)
Anyway the this particular PrC is designed to shoe-horn some of the AE magic system into D&D. Ladening, weaving, etc. Neat, but kind of a 'so what? angle. But because they are technically seperate single level classes, they reset the BAB and save progression... so if you want a +6 to will saves, they're good. But everything else will be even more shitty.
Ultimately, the city as a whole does fit 3.5 like a glove. Which is to say, its utterly lacking in distinctiveness and character. Blahblahblah...city on the edge of a fading empire... small cults of scheming outsiders with weird fetishes... cemetary full of undead held back by the 20th level druid kicking back on a park-like island... Nothing resembling an actual economic basis or infrastructure, just a giant fantasy city with convenient dungeons so you don't have to be bothered with that pesky wilderness travel stuff.
There are some neat ideas here and there, don't get me wrong, but its just carries too much of the blandness of the current products. 'Everything but the kitchen sink' doesn't tend to feel right as a design philosophy- if the ideas were culled and what remained was thought out and justified, it might work. As is, it doesn't. Though I was pleasantly surprised there weren't 500 new templates and half-critters. The lack is something of a surprise from Monte.
Basically its Waterdeep and Undermountain all over again. But without the background material (of whatever quality, so that may be a bonus for some folks), and with an expectation that there won't really be any consistent support for it.
Re: So what about Ptolus?
Its a Monte creation, which implies some wackiness (and the occassional bad bit of editing that seems to haunt every single RP product nowadays because, apparently, people just can't be bothered).
Monte's wife is one of the best editors working in the RPG industry today. Suffice it to say, you haven't seen bad editing until you've read a recent White Wolf book; some of the errors Scribendi lets through would get people fired with extreme prejudice in any other sector of publishing.
Re: So what about Ptolus?
Yes... well. I dislike any meaning of 'best' that translates to 'makes fewer mistakes'.
But then again, since most gamers are convinced that loosing = failing, and similar atrocities, most writes and publishers can sit comfortable in the knowledge that their audience is too stupid to realize when they screw up.
But then again, since most gamers are convinced that loosing = failing, and similar atrocities, most writes and publishers can sit comfortable in the knowledge that their audience is too stupid to realize when they screw up.
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Username17
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Re: So what about Ptolus?
Editting is really hard. I know for example that parts of Augmentation were being rewritten just a week before it got sent to the presses. So even though there is actual editting and playtesting going on, there's still occassional things in there that make me cringe when I see it all come together.
FVCK! That hurts. But that kind of thing got in there because we were continuing to refine mechanics and pulling undesirable stuff right up to the wire.
What gets me is when you see stuff like the Bloodlines books where you see assaults on grammar and spelling right along side incomprehensible game mechanics. That's just lazy. And puzzling. I mean, you've got the first level of Obtenebration that goes on and on about using it to see in the dark under certain circumstances - as if the author never even checked that Mekhet already get perfect See In Darkness with their Cheerios (long before they even ave he option of joining a blood line).
That is something where the very pitch of the entire blood line doesn't make any sense - it all revlves around a super secret ability that you by definition already have a better version of. That's not a math error or a piece of floating text - that's a fundamental failure to check anything against the "what's the point" test.
-Username17
me, p. 156 wrote:even if normally the installation were normally considered easy.
FVCK! That hurts. But that kind of thing got in there because we were continuing to refine mechanics and pulling undesirable stuff right up to the wire.
What gets me is when you see stuff like the Bloodlines books where you see assaults on grammar and spelling right along side incomprehensible game mechanics. That's just lazy. And puzzling. I mean, you've got the first level of Obtenebration that goes on and on about using it to see in the dark under certain circumstances - as if the author never even checked that Mekhet already get perfect See In Darkness with their Cheerios (long before they even ave he option of joining a blood line).
That is something where the very pitch of the entire blood line doesn't make any sense - it all revlves around a super secret ability that you by definition already have a better version of. That's not a math error or a piece of floating text - that's a fundamental failure to check anything against the "what's the point" test.
-Username17
Re: So what about Ptolus?
I've got it and I like it a lot. "Everything but the kitchen sink" served as both the origin and major design goal of the project - 3.X under one roof - so, yeah, this isn't your thing if a sizable chunk of DnD genre standards annoy you or if you dislike chocolate in your peanut butter.
Beyond the genre standards, I find that a lot of elements that the DnD rules imply, like the Wish economy and the brute power of Polymorph, are worked into Ptolus on some level. That's nice.
As for the editing, it's easily one of the best-edited books on my gaming shelf. I've got at least two graduate-level physics texts here in my office - Quantum Mechanics by Abers and Statistical Mechanics by Pathria - that feature noticeably worse editing than Ptolus. Ptolus's index is a thing of beauty (particularly compared to the WotC products on my shelf), its internal referencing is without compare in 3.X, and its organization is solid. You can certainly level the "its got a nonzero number of errors" charge, but that's a very hard charge to avoid.
Anyway, I've put the book to frequent use, and that's really what it all comes down to. It's foibles and oddities, by and large, are those of the DnD genre itself, and I'm willing to accept them on occasion.
Beyond the genre standards, I find that a lot of elements that the DnD rules imply, like the Wish economy and the brute power of Polymorph, are worked into Ptolus on some level. That's nice.
As for the editing, it's easily one of the best-edited books on my gaming shelf. I've got at least two graduate-level physics texts here in my office - Quantum Mechanics by Abers and Statistical Mechanics by Pathria - that feature noticeably worse editing than Ptolus. Ptolus's index is a thing of beauty (particularly compared to the WotC products on my shelf), its internal referencing is without compare in 3.X, and its organization is solid. You can certainly level the "its got a nonzero number of errors" charge, but that's a very hard charge to avoid.
Anyway, I've put the book to frequent use, and that's really what it all comes down to. It's foibles and oddities, by and large, are those of the DnD genre itself, and I'm willing to accept them on occasion.