Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

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Captain_Bleach
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Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Captain_Bleach »

I am speaking about the Dungeonomicon, Races of War, and his other bits of online work. I am searching for reviews on his work, as I am too lazy to read all of 200+ pages of materials.
Also, for a "Frank" campaign, is there any class that duplicates a Scout/Ranger well? Does Frank have his own version of a Ranger? How about Paladin?
As soon as I finish my previous campaign (Shackled City), I want to make a Frank campaign.
Overall, are the general rules in Frank's supplements more on the rules-clunky or streamlined, by D&D standards?
Also, how much of his material can be used without alignment, as I DESPISE the D&D alignment system?
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Re: Reviews of Frank's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Fuzzy_logic »

RoW Fighter makes a fine ranger or scout. Point Blank Shot and Sniper make a ridiculous combat archer if you want one; two-weapon fighting is actually good, and there's plenty of skills available.

Depending on what you think Paladins should be, Cleric, Fighter, Samurai, or Monk might be worth a look...
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Re: Reviews of Frank's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Captain_Bleach »

Ah yes, the Fighter is incredibly versatile. But what of Sorcerers? How should they be balanced/stack up to the "preparation-based" casters?
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Re: Reviews of Frank's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Bigode »

Trollman/Suilin sorcerer for the rescue! Well, actually, you'll probably have to fill it a little bit yet. Ask Frank, if need be.
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Re: Reviews of Frank's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Prak »

as far as alignment goes... I can only think of a few classes that are alignment based... the True Fiend, Conduit of the Planes, and Fiendish Brute are the only classes with alignment requirements that come to mind. So I don't think you need to worry about alingment too much.
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Re: Reviews of Frank's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Draco_Argentum »

Don't forget K!
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Re: Reviews of Frank's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by the_taken »

Actually, the True Fiend doesn't have an alignment requirement...

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Re: Reviews of Frank's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Catharz »

They were in the process of writing a paladin class for the Tome of Virtue, you could ask how finished that is.

And a thief acrobat or fighter/thief acrobat would probably be your best bet for a scout, depending on what exactly you mean. There are also some good PrCs.
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Re: Reviews of Frank's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Seriously, read it all.

There's nothing that can be said other than that.

Don't read it at once and read one of the books at a time. I'd reccomend starting at Tome of Nercomancy, then Fiends, then Dungeonomicon, then RoW. Since they were written in that order.

I had an idea for a 'Ranger' character; it was a tongue-in-cheek described class called the "Racist Hunter" that allowed the character to deal +1d6 damage (+1d6 per two levels, as the Barbarian does) on all attacks (yes, even ranged); so long as they could make a Character level + Wis modifier check versus the monster's CR.

Plus getting Point Blank Shot, Sniper, Hunter, TWF and Whirlwind as bonus feats.

I wasn`t sure how to do spell casting; I was seriously thinking of saying the following:

1. You cast like a bard of your level.
2. You can cast any Ranger or Druid spells. (Of course, your DM can remove any spell access, but they should let you use it at least once)
3. You know all the spells on your list.

Some other class features included:
Track (obviously);
Great Fortitude (replaces endurance)
and
A modified version of Leadership (animals and animal-like (or shaped) things only; so a Hamatula is out, but a Stone golem shaped like a tiger is in))

So, Rangers can summon animals, or awaken trees, but can turn into whirlwinds of swordy death and can pick off a wyvern`s eye as it flies by, while riding their hippogrif companion.

That was my take at least. I never got around to finishing it off.
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Re: Reviews of Frank's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Username17 »

Catharz at [unixtime wrote:1189172650[/unixtime]]They were in the process of writing a paladin class for the Tome of Virtue, you could ask how finished that is.


"It has been said that one could travel the world, the ocean, and the stars themselves until time itself is a memory and never find an honest man. Perhaps this is so. Tremble evil doers, for an honest man has found You."

We have two versions of the Paladin on the burner. Basically one is always XG and the other one is simply a standard bearer for sopme cause. The game mechanics aren't super different in either case. It's a Full BAB Beguiler with all good saves and defensive class features. The XG version has lots of anti-Evil stuff all over it, the Alignment ambiguous version is more of a leader of men.

In any case, the spell list isn't complete for either.

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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Captain_Bleach »

What is the reason for "X" Good?
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Fwib »

Captain_Bleach at [unixtime wrote:1189185641[/unixtime]]What is the reason for "X" Good?
If you mean 'what is X?'

I think X is a variable, with possible values of C, L and N or whatever.

If you mean: Why not Lawful? Then I suspect because you can serve goodness just fine without being a compulsive rule-follower, or whatever you think Lawful means.

[edit] *sees Frank's post below* Oh! 'Exalted Good'.

That makes more sense than 'any good'.
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Fuzzy_logic »

Monk also makes a reasonable scout...
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Username17 »

Captain_Bleach at [unixtime wrote:1189185641[/unixtime]]What is the reason for "X" Good?


It went something like this:

You Are Not Good. And Your Mom is Not Good.
"I have made mistakes in my life, but basically I think I'm a good person."

I'm sorry, but you are not a Good person. You go through your life, you don't stab anyone in the face, you don't break any laws, you don't take pictures of naked children, and… so what? You want a medal for that? Shut up.

The sad fact of the matter is that if you aren't exerting yourself for a cause, if you aren't exerting yourself for something, you aren't Good. You probably aren't Evil, but seriously: get over yourself. Before you can really get into the mind of a Good character you honestly have to come to terms with the fact that you, as a person, are probably Neutral. Your character is a much better person than you are.

The reverse is also true for villains, and should come as no surprise to people who play Evil characters, since most people don't consider themselves Evil. Characters are generally much more than the players who play them. Villains are blacker, heroes are nobler, and when you play one of those characters you should come to terms with that. Even though it probably hurts you a little bit to contemplate it, if you're going to even try to play a Good character you need to play them as a much better person than you personally are.

The Exalted: Slaves to Unreason


" This is why we have to eradicate the conversations that we can retreat without ending, that we have a lot of territory, that our country is great and rich, that we have a lot of population and we will always have enough bread. These conversations are false and harmful, as they weaken us and strengthen the enemy, for if we do not stop retreating, we will be left without bread, without fuel, without metals, without raw materials, without magic and forges, without roads. The conclusion is that it is time to stop the retreat. Not a single step back!"

It is tempting to conclude that one's viewpoint is so important, so correct, that no argument or compromise is possible. Whether one's ideals are based on faith or reason, it can be truly confusing, even hurtful, to contemplate the fact that these ideals are not shared by the people around you. And it is from this natural frustration that flows fanaticism like blood from a wound. Fanatics do not compromise, do not rest, and push their agendas for good or ill at all times. And these fanatics are called "Exalted" by those who support their ideals.

Characters and creatures can be Exalted towards any alignment, though by definition it is not possible to share such an alignment and temper it with any other. A character who is Exalted Chaos cannot temper his Chaos with thoughts of Good or Evil. These alignments are represented with an X: XG is Exalted Good, XE is Exalted Evil, XC and XL are Exalted Chaos and Law respectively.
Last edited by Username17 on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by the_taken »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1189189044[/unixtime]]You go through your life, you don't stab anyone in the face, you don't break any laws, you don't take pictures of naked children, and… so what? You want a medal for that? Shut up.

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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Captain_Bleach »

By D&D standards of alignment, I could be any of the nine alignments, depending on how I feel and my motives, actions, and intent. I would not do Evil for Evil's sake, but for more mundane reasons, like Revenge, definitely so. D&D alignment can be interpreted in so many ways that I could logically be argued to be of any alignment. I have qualities of Good, Evil, Law, Chaos, and Neutrality in my being.
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by CalibronXXX »

Captain_Bleach at [unixtime wrote:1189205905[/unixtime]]By D&D standards of alignment, I could be any of the nine alignments, depending on how I feel and my motives, actions, and intent. I would not do Evil for Evil's sake, but for more mundane reasons, like Revenge, definitely so. D&D alignment can be interpreted in so many ways that I could logically be argued to be of any alignment. I have qualities of Good, Evil, Law, Chaos, and Neutrality in my being.

And in roughly equal amounts I'd wager; making you neutral. Almost all human beings are neutral, it takes a special kind of person, and most likely some unusual circumstances as well, to forge a creature that can be called Good or Evil. Law and Chaos are more behavioral and easier to be one or the other than Good or Evil are.
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Captain_Bleach »

How easy would it be to implement K and Frank's articles into already existing settings?
The ones that I am most interested in are Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Ravenloft (why Ravenloft? Because I LOVE Dark Fantasy!)
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Voss »

So why do you love ravenloft?

Greyhawk should be easy to just drop in. Most people are NPC-classed anyway, and the flavor of the setting is pretty much DM-directed anyway.

Dragonlance... ugh. No, I can't give you advice on using dragonlance. Except possibly as toliet-paper. Stupid one dimensional characters.
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Captain_Bleach »

Voss at [unixtime wrote:1189227636[/unixtime]]So why do you love ravenloft?


I've been a fan of gothic stories, Dracula, Frankenstein, etc.
Put that into a Dark Fantasy Setting and I'm hooked!
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Koumei »

Calibron at [unixtime wrote:1189206248[/unixtime]]Law and Chaos are less defined and easier to be one or the other than Good or Evil are.


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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by RandomCasualty »

Captain_Bleach at [unixtime wrote:1189229143[/unixtime]]
I've been a fan of gothic stories, Dracula, Frankenstein, etc.
Put that into a Dark Fantasy Setting and I'm hooked!


Yeah, I like Ravenloft too.
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by Captain_Bleach »

But how would the Tome series best be implemented in Dark Fantasy and Gothic RPGs?
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by CalibronXXX »

It would be best implemented in games that stay below level 11. Before that you can make use of the better balanced mechanics without having to worry about some of the crazier aspects inherent in 3rd edition D&D.
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Re: Reviews of Frank and K's stuff? (And potential campaign)

Post by RandomCasualty »

Honestly, you're probably better off using E6 or something. The tome series is more for high heroic fantasy/ superhero games, where PCs are taking on legions of enemies and in most cases, are better than the monsters they're fighting.

Horror in RPGs generally has to put the PCs on a lower level than the monsters they fight. I don't really know of any gothic horror superhero genres, and that's what you basically are at higher levels.
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