The Gaming Den

In response to asking what the use for the color of someone's hair is, what is the use of Hope (the planar currency)?

virgileso wrote:In response to asking what the use for the color of someone's hair is, what is the use of Hope (the planar currency)?

Used to make powerful good-aligned weapons, armor, and items, like the Sun Plate (Races of War Heavy Armor). Also used in the pharmaceutical industry for antidepressants.

Or, that's what I'd do.

The colour of someone's hair could be useful to an extraplanar being that's trying to build itself a bona fide Prime Material-native body that it can occupy without risk of being noticed by the gods, banished by clerics or whatever. Actually, that could be a really cool plot hook.

I rather like the idea of selling "intangible" things, perhaps to beings that are otherwise incapable of experiencing them, in exchange for powerful favours of one sort or another. "Yes, I will lend to you this sword if you meet my price. In exchange, I want... the memory of love."

It's all in danger of going a bit Neil Gaiman at that point, though

I suggest a short story by Lord Dunsany: The Bureau d'Exchange de Maux

http://www.pos1.info/b/bureaumaux.htm

"There was no evil, he told me, that was not negotiable there; no evil the old man knew had ever been taken away in despair from his shop. A man might have to wait and come back again next day, and next day and the day after, paying twenty francs each time, but the old man had the addresses of all his clients and shrewdly knew their needs, and soon the right two met and eagerly exchanged their commodities. "Commodities" was the old man's terrible word, said with a gruesome smack of his heavy lips, for he took a pride in his business and evils to him were goods. "

baduin wrote:I suggest a short story by Lord Dunsany: The Bureau d'Exchange de Maux

http://www.pos1.info/b/bureaumaux.htm

"There was no evil, he told me, that was not negotiable there; no evil the old man knew had ever been taken away in despair from his shop. A man might have to wait and come back again next day, and next day and the day after, paying twenty francs each time, but the old man had the addresses of all his clients and shrewdly knew their needs, and soon the right two met and eagerly exchanged their commodities. "Commodities" was the old man's terrible word, said with a gruesome smack of his heavy lips, for he took a pride in his business and evils to him were goods. "

Great story.

Very great.

I might even tell it myself.

I'm a fan of Lord Dunsany but hadn't come across that one - thanks! Does anyone else suspect that it was the inspiration for Stephen King's "Needful Things"?

Yeah, could have been.

The thing is that the vendor is a recurring character apparently. Supposedly he's Flagg from Eyes of the Dragon, and other books.

Actually, King's Needful Things resemble rather The Repairer of Reputations by Chambers, or The Bazaar of the Bizarre by Fritz Leiber. The seller is a mind-controlling fraud. Dunsany's trader is honest.

http://www.sff.net/people/DoyleMacdonald/kiy_rr.htm

"I know what the massive safe holds secure for me, for me alone, and the exquisite pleasure of waiting is hardly enhanced when the safe opens and I lift, from its velvet crown, a diadem of purest gold, blazing with diamonds. I do this every day, and yet the joy of waiting and at last touching again the diadem only seems to increase as the days pass. It is a diadem fit for a king among kings, an emperor among emperors. The King in Yellow might scorn it, but it shall be worn by his royal servant.
...

I wheeled like a flash and seized a long knife from my dressing-table, and my cousin sprang back very pale, crying: "Hildred! for God's sake!" Then, as my hand fell, he said: "It is I, Louis; don't you know me?" I stood silent. I could not have spoken from my life. He walked up to me and took the knife from my hand.

"What is all this?" he inquired, in a gentle voice. "Are you ill?"

"No," I replied. But I doubt if he heard me.

"Come, come, old fellow," he cried, "take off that brass crown and toddle into the study. Are you going to a masquerade? What's all this theatrical tinsel anyway?"

I was glad he thought the crown was made of brass and paste, yet I didn't like him any the better for thinking so. I let him take it from my hand, knowing it was best to humor him. He tossed the splendid diadem in the air, and, catching it, turned to me smiling.

"It's dear at fifty cents," he said. "What's it for?"

I did not answer, but took the circlet from his hands, and, placing it in the safe, shut the massive door."

BTW, there titular character in that story mostly sells, or rather repairs, reputations - an immaterial thing, but in wide demand.

For version 2 of the polymorph alteration, the lycanthrope/monstrous form/dragon form spells specifically, does the melded equipment get deactivated (thus losing the bonus from your rings & cloaks)? Are the bonuses of any named type, like enhancement?

virgileso wrote:For version 2 of the polymorph alteration, the lycanthrope/monstrous form/dragon form spells specifically, does the melded equipment get deactivated (thus losing the bonus from your rings & cloaks)? Are the bonuses of any named type, like enhancement?

Frank is doing relief work and version 2 was his, but I'm pretty sure that magic items don't work once melded.

Well, if all gear becomes inert, that definitely minimizes its use on noncasters; though the question of bonus type would still matter due to Bull's Strength and the like.

Can someone explain to me how the Monk is powerful enough to compete in levels 2-8 as a melee guy? I see stun and Con damage as useful (so you might take that at 1st level), but I have trouble picturing the new fighting styles that you get in levels 3, 5, and 7 adding more to the monk since different fighting style effects don't apply simultaneously (contrast this with Samurai's combat abilities gained at these levels).

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Completely different question: Can the Monk take the feat Two Weapon Fighting to double the number of slam attacks he can make?

The monk can be a spiked chain tripper with the AoO trip and the apply all bonuses to manufactured weapons. He can jump past everything and whale on the casters with +30' insight bonus and the no AoOs bonus. The advantages don't work like a fighter's, but allow you to swap out different sets of advantages at will.

As far as I know, you can't.

Yugo wrote:Can someone explain to me how the Monk is powerful enough to compete in levels 2-8 as a melee guy? I see stun and Con damage as useful (so you might take that at 1st level), but I have trouble picturing the new fighting styles that you get in levels 3, 5, and 7 adding more to the monk since different fighting style effects don't apply simultaneously (contrast this with Samurai's combat abilities gained at these levels).

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Completely different question: Can the Monk take the feat Two Weapon Fighting to double the number of slam attacks he can make?

There's all sorts of things you could do.

Stunning's a worthwhile ability to have on tap. So is the movement-crippling option, especially when paired with a ranged weapon.

You could also turn yourself into a Trip/disarm machine by taking the AC-raising ability and pairing it with the appropriate abilities.

Likewise, you could go the anti-caster route once you get your Spell Resistance, by getting the ability which increases your speed by 30 feet and pairing it with the one that lets you provoke no AoO's for movement and move through space like they're unoccupied. So when the fighting starts, the Monk turns this fighting style on, mobilizes past the enemy front lines, and goes upside the enemy caster's head.

Ignoring DR/Hardness could also let you do some sundering and makes the enemies cry.

If you're using Races of War feats, Insightful Strike is a very awesome feat for monks.

And to answer your second question...Well, I've always used it like that.

Yugo wrote:Completely different question: Can the Monk take the feat Two Weapon Fighting to double the number of slam attacks he can make?

Natural weapons and TWF don't interact. And you have one natural weapon.

For me, the crux of the question is this: Is the Monk powerful enough in the role that it was designed for? The Monk seems to be designed as a melee guy who contributes by dealing out special effects (instead of massive damage like the Barbarian or Rogue). And it also seems the Monk is designed to be primarily a no weapon using guy (despite having the option to channel his special ability into weapons). So does the Monk played in this role competitive with other classes at these levels?

I fully understand that classes can be played differently than what it was designed for and still be competitive. Sometimes, the alternative playing style is the superior option. I'm fine with that. What I want to know is whether a single-class Monk is on par with other single-classed fighter-type characters or even fighter types that does a one level dip into the Monk solely for the ability to deal Con damage using weapons. (Because if the Monk is not, then something is wrong with the class.)

BTW, the question about Two Weapon Fighting and slam attack sort of ties into this. Weapon users can spend one feat (which they probably do) and double their number of attacks. If a slam-using Monk can't do the same, what does he have to offset the disadvantage?

Tome Barbarians only get rage dice on their first attack. Fighters use spiked chain or greatsword, not TWF. Rogues do go TWF, but are best with range, and rangers are non-functional RAW.

zeruslord wrote:Fighters use spiked chain or greatsword, not TWF.

Fighters use whatever the fuck they want.

And, yeah, the monk is a lot more like a spellcaster than your average warrior. The advantage lies in scaling and versatility more than stacking.

zeruslord wrote:Tome Barbarians only get rage dice on their first attack.

Races of War wrote:Rage Dice (Ex): While Raging, a Barbarian may add these dice of damage to each of his melee attacks. These dice are not multiplied by damage multipliers, and are not applied to any bonus attacks beyond those granted by Base Attack Bonus. These dice are not sneak attack dice, and do not count as sneak attack dice for the prerequisites of prestige classes or feats.

Looks sorta like they get them on any melee attack.

Maxus wrote:

zeruslord wrote:Tome Barbarians only get rage dice on their first attack.

Races of War wrote:Rage Dice (Ex): While Raging, a Barbarian may add these dice of damage to each of his melee attacks. These dice are not multiplied by damage multipliers, and are not applied to any bonus attacks beyond those granted by Base Attack Bonus. These dice are not sneak attack dice, and do not count as sneak attack dice for the prerequisites of prestige classes or feats.

Looks sorta like they get them on any melee attack.

Careful reading is your friend.

Yeah, I caught that right after I posted it.

But, still, it applies to attacks given by BAB, and one could make an argument that they apply to AoO's and TWF attacks, too, since those are 'granted' from BAB. Certainly the AoO's he gets from his BAB.

Edit, anyway, they certainly do apply to a Full Attack.

CatharzGodfoot wrote:And, yeah, the monk is a lot more like a spellcaster than your average warrior. The advantage lies in scaling and versatility more than stacking.

Can you show that doing "either this or that" set of abilities at levels 3-8 is comparable to what spellcasters can throw out?

Maxus wrote:Yeah, I caught that right after I posted it.

But, still, it applies to attacks given by BAB, and one could make an argument that they apply to AoO's and TWF attacks, too, since those are 'granted' from BAB. Certainly the AoO's he gets from his BAB.

Edit, anyway, they certainly do apply to a Full Attack.

The attack doubling granted by TWF is granted by ... TWF, not BAB. And several discussions on multiple classes always went on with that (for example, how an ignored knight deals somewhat more damage than a rogue instead of more than double). However, I think nobody ever commented on AoOs, which indeed are calculated from BAB as a basic rule - I can't even tell what the intent was, and I'd say strict RAW's on your side.

Yugo: monks can TWF with the weapon use style ability.

Bigode wrote:Yugo: monks can TWF with the weapon use style ability.

I know that. The question that arise would be, would this make a slam-using Monk an inferior choice since you can't deal as many attacks (and hence more effects) per round?

Assuming that TWF's a feat balanced with the other feats, you aren't at a loss for not using it. That said, let me laugh at the notion.