Tome of Fiends

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Bigode
Duke
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Bigode »

FrankTrollman wrote:Well, they wouldn't allow SR any more. The real question is: why would you want to make them Su when they are already working fine as Sp?
To be done with Sp being anything other than spell emulation. I know it happens to be a small objective (and possibly OCD'd as well). But yeah, does anyone care about basically no SR on fire mage stuff?
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
User avatar
virgil
King
Posts: 6339
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by virgil »

I'm assuming the Large size feat's "with all the usual changes" text means that you get the whole MM alteration to stats (specifically +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor)?
Last edited by virgil on Sat May 09, 2009 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17340
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

yes.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Korwin
Duke
Posts: 2055
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:49 am
Location: Linz / Austria

Post by Korwin »

Some questions:

A fiendish brute has two claw attacks, do they get full Str. to damage or half?
If I use the second Lvl. Feat for Poison Sacs, do both claws get the Poison?

Product of Infernal Dalliance gives you an subtype…
Benefits: You may take any feat with the [Fiend]
subtype. In addition, you radiate faint evil, have either
two claws or one bite natural weapon, and have
Cold Resistance 5 or Fire Resistance 5. When this
feat is gained, you also gain the [baazetu], [tanar’ri],
[yugoloth], or [demondand] subtype
.
The one in the MM?
If I use the Feat to qualify for the Class True Fiend, doesnt that make the Fiendish Traits and Greater Fiendish Traits useless?
Quantumboost
Knight-Baron
Posts: 968
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Quantumboost »

Korwin wrote:
Benefits: You may take any feat with the [Fiend]
subtype. In addition, you radiate faint evil, have either
two claws or one bite natural weapon, and have
Cold Resistance 5 or Fire Resistance 5. When this
feat is gained, you also gain the [baazetu], [tanar’ri],
[yugoloth], or [demondand] subtype
.
The one in the MM?
If I use the Feat to qualify for the Class True Fiend, doesnt that make the Fiendish Traits and Greater Fiendish Traits useless?
Yes, the feat refers to the racial subtypes in the Monster Manual.

You can't use the feat to qualify for True Fiend, because True Fiend specifically requires you to be an Outsider - if you weren't an Outsider before, adding a subtype won't change that. If you were an Outsider before, you don't need the feat to qualify.

Still, taking that feat and the (Greater) Fiendish Traits from True Fiend is mostly redundant, much like getting a ring of fire resistance as a fire mage - *if* you pick the same fiend subtype for each. I recall there being a thread discussing how four-way fiend ancestry would work out (as a sitcom/soap opera setup?).
User avatar
Judging__Eagle
Prince
Posts: 4671
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada

Post by Judging__Eagle »

No, they all stack up together.

This was discussed earlier... or perhaps in an other thread.

I was asking if a single character could pick up Immunities to fire, cold, electricity and poison by picking the right mix of subtypes and spheres. The answer was "yes", as well as "it's not a big deal, really."
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.

While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
User avatar
Judging__Eagle
Prince
Posts: 4671
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Quantumboost wrote: I recall there being a thread discussing how four-way fiend ancestry would work out (as a sitcom/soap opera setup?).
yeah.... i wrote that. I was trying to explain how a Yugoloth, Demon, Devil and Demodand live together.

The Yugoloth for tax breaks; the Demon b/c fsck it, they don't care, plus they get to count as rebelling, against other demons; the Devil b/c it takes ridiculous planning to find the legal loopholes to pull off a 4-way marriage; and the Demodand b/c they and the Devil like to get kinky, the extra partners is just gravy.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.

While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

IMO the extra immunities are utter bullshit (as are the absurd multiclass/multifiends), and the feat is useful enough as it is. Not that that counts for much in this case.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

User avatar
Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Kaelik »

So what exactly does the level 11 SLA power leech do in the voracity school?

The Psionic power is level 4 only, and is shitty at that, requiring basically a helpless target + a long period of time + a helpless target with Psionics. And it also does nothing for Fiends at all.

Is their some spell that doesn't suck that I'm missing or is just a tax on the Sphere to have a shitty power you can't use?
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13871
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

I think Book of Vile Body Piercings might have had a spell with that name.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17340
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

so, what would giving a monster sphere access (just tacking basic, advanced or expert access to a single sphere onto a monster) do to it's CR?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
User avatar
Archmage
Knight-Baron
Posts: 757
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:05 pm

Post by Archmage »

Prak_Anima wrote:so, what would giving a monster sphere access (just tacking basic, advanced or expert access to a single sphere onto a monster) do to it's CR?
I think that would really be heavily dependent upon what spells were granted by the sphere.
P.C. Hodgell wrote:That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
shadzar wrote:i think the apostrophe is an outdated idea such as is hyphenation.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17340
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

hrm. Aren't they all supposed to be balanced and level appropriate and all?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
User avatar
Josh_Kablack
King
Posts: 5318
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Online. duh

Post by Josh_Kablack »

The Half-Fiend and Half Celestial templates grant a slightly better version of basic sphere access (some abilities are 3/day) plus a bunch of other crap (stat boosts, DR, SR, type resistances, movement mode, more natty armor, smite, ) and add a number from +1 to +3 (dependent on the base critter's HD) - so clearly basic sphere access should modify CR less than that.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
User avatar
Archmage Joda
Knight
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:30 pm

Post by Archmage Joda »

Something I've been curious about re: tome base classes. Is it ever worth it to use them in tandem with WotC made "official" prestige classes, such as for example taking malconvoker levels as the summoner presented in this particular tome?
Blicero
Duke
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 12:07 am

Post by Blicero »

Archmage Joda wrote:Something I've been curious about re: tome base classes. Is it ever worth it to use them in tandem with WotC made "official" prestige classes, such as for example taking malconvoker levels as the summoner presented in this particular tome?
That's really going to depend on whether or not the given WotC PrC is shitty. A lot of them are, like that random one that turns you into a green robot or something. But some of them aren't, like Initiate of the Seven Veils or Shadowcraft Mage. But there have to be like 7000 of them in all the various books. And quality is srsly variable. Especially for casting PrCs.

So if you pair a Tome class with an interesting, good PrC, then that'll be good. But if you pair a Tome class with a shitty PrC, then the results will be less than ideal.
Out beyond the hull, mucoid strings of non-baryonic matter streamed past like Christ's blood in the firmament.
User avatar
Maxus
Overlord
Posts: 7645
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Maxus »

And then there's ability interaction to keep an eye out for. Some PrCs get crazy one-off abilities which can do very strange things when combined with other crazy one-off abilities
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

--The horror of Mario

Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
User avatar
Darth Rabbitt
Overlord
Posts: 8869
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: In "In The Trenches," mostly.
Contact:

Post by Darth Rabbitt »

Maxus wrote:And then there's ability interaction to keep an eye out for. Some PrCs get crazy one-off abilities which can do very strange things when combined with other crazy one-off abilities
Yeah, off the top of my head Incantatrix comes to mind as a big no-no.
Pseudo Stupidity wrote:This Applebees fucking sucks, much like all Applebees. I wanted to go to Femboy Hooters (communism).
icyshadowlord
Knight-Baron
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:52 pm

Post by icyshadowlord »

...am I crazy for having an idea for a character that involves the Feat Product of Infernal Dalliance, the class Conduit of the Lower Planes (or alternatively a Warlock), and the prestige class Ur-Priest (which should NOT be evil-only) when trying to design a half-fiend plotting to become a deity or get above the deities even? Edit: Since this thread IS about Tome of Fiends, I thought this question might be appropriate.
Last edited by icyshadowlord on Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation
sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.
virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

icyshadowlord wrote:...am I crazy for having an idea for a character that involves the Feat Product of Infernal Dalliance, the class Conduit of the Lower Planes (or alternatively a Warlock), and the prestige class Ur-Priest (which should NOT be evil-only) when trying to design a half-fiend plotting to become a deity or get above the deities even? Edit: Since this thread IS about Tome of Fiends, I thought this question might be appropriate.
It works mechanically, as much as Ur Priest ever does. It works flavor-wise too. What exactly are you asking?
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

...You Lost Me
Duke
Posts: 1854
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:21 am

Post by ...You Lost Me »

He wants to know if he's crazy.

Yes, icy, you are crazy.
DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.
icyshadowlord
Knight-Baron
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:52 pm

Post by icyshadowlord »

I think the crazy part comes from me thinking that character could at some part of a campaign (I doubt any campaign would last that long) go out on her way and kick the Lady of Pain over and take over Sigil or some crap like that. Hell, if Vecna almost succeeded in that (and he's not even a greater deity, for fuck's sake), why can't a player character (or NPC since I doubt any local DM would let me play that character) be able to do that?
Last edited by icyshadowlord on Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation
sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.
virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17340
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

really? I thought the crazy part comes in when you post on this forum...
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
icyshadowlord
Knight-Baron
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:52 pm

Post by icyshadowlord »

...so now I'm not only evil, but crazy as well?

Should I feel insulted, flattered, both or neither?
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation
sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.
virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17340
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

neh, you're in good company. I long ago made peace with the fact that I'm insane and evil.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Post Reply