The Gaming Den

FrankTrollman wrote:Well, they wouldn't allow SR any more. The real question is: why would you want to make them Su when they are already working fine as Sp?

To be done with Sp being anything other than spell emulation. I know it happens to be a small objective (and possibly OCD'd as well). But yeah, does anyone care about basically no SR on fire mage stuff?

I'm assuming the Large size feat's "with all the usual changes" text means that you get the whole MM alteration to stats (specifically +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor)?

yes.

Some questions:

A fiendish brute has two claw attacks, do they get full Str. to damage or half?
If I use the second Lvl. Feat for Poison Sacs, do both claws get the Poison?

Product of Infernal Dalliance gives you an subtype…

Benefits: You may take any feat with the [Fiend]
subtype. In addition, you radiate faint evil, have either
two claws or one bite natural weapon, and have
Cold Resistance 5 or Fire Resistance 5. When this
feat is gained, you also gain the [baazetu], [tanar’ri],
[yugoloth], or [demondand] subtype .

The one in the MM?
If I use the Feat to qualify for the Class True Fiend, doesnt that make the Fiendish Traits and Greater Fiendish Traits useless?

Korwin wrote:

Benefits: You may take any feat with the [Fiend]
subtype. In addition, you radiate faint evil, have either
two claws or one bite natural weapon, and have
Cold Resistance 5 or Fire Resistance 5. When this
feat is gained, you also gain the [baazetu], [tanar’ri],
[yugoloth], or [demondand] subtype .

The one in the MM?
If I use the Feat to qualify for the Class True Fiend, doesnt that make the Fiendish Traits and Greater Fiendish Traits useless?

Yes, the feat refers to the racial subtypes in the Monster Manual.

You can't use the feat to qualify for True Fiend, because True Fiend specifically requires you to be an Outsider - if you weren't an Outsider before, adding a subtype won't change that. If you were an Outsider before, you don't need the feat to qualify.

Still, taking that feat and the (Greater) Fiendish Traits from True Fiend is mostly redundant, much like getting a ring of fire resistance as a fire mage - *if* you pick the same fiend subtype for each. I recall there being a thread discussing how four-way fiend ancestry would work out (as a sitcom/soap opera setup?).

No, they all stack up together.

This was discussed earlier... or perhaps in an other thread.

I was asking if a single character could pick up Immunities to fire, cold, electricity and poison by picking the right mix of subtypes and spheres. The answer was "yes", as well as "it's not a big deal, really."

Quantumboost wrote: I recall there being a thread discussing how four-way fiend ancestry would work out (as a sitcom/soap opera setup?).

yeah.... i wrote that. I was trying to explain how a Yugoloth, Demon, Devil and Demodand live together.

The Yugoloth for tax breaks; the Demon b/c fsck it, they don't care, plus they get to count as rebelling, against other demons; the Devil b/c it takes ridiculous planning to find the legal loopholes to pull off a 4-way marriage; and the Demodand b/c they and the Devil like to get kinky, the extra partners is just gravy.

IMO the extra immunities are utter bullshit (as are the absurd multiclass/multifiends), and the feat is useful enough as it is. Not that that counts for much in this case.

So what exactly does the level 11 SLA power leech do in the voracity school?

The Psionic power is level 4 only, and is shitty at that, requiring basically a helpless target + a long period of time + a helpless target with Psionics. And it also does nothing for Fiends at all.

Is their some spell that doesn't suck that I'm missing or is just a tax on the Sphere to have a shitty power you can't use?

I think Book of Vile Body Piercings might have had a spell with that name.

so, what would giving a monster sphere access (just tacking basic, advanced or expert access to a single sphere onto a monster) do to it's CR?

Prak_Anima wrote:so, what would giving a monster sphere access (just tacking basic, advanced or expert access to a single sphere onto a monster) do to it's CR?

I think that would really be heavily dependent upon what spells were granted by the sphere.

hrm. Aren't they all supposed to be balanced and level appropriate and all?

The Half-Fiend and Half Celestial templates grant a slightly better version of basic sphere access (some abilities are 3/day) plus a bunch of other crap (stat boosts, DR, SR, type resistances, movement mode, more natty armor, smite, ) and add a number from +1 to +3 (dependent on the base critter's HD) - so clearly basic sphere access should modify CR less than that.

Something I've been curious about re: tome base classes. Is it ever worth it to use them in tandem with WotC made "official" prestige classes, such as for example taking malconvoker levels as the summoner presented in this particular tome?

Archmage Joda wrote:Something I've been curious about re: tome base classes. Is it ever worth it to use them in tandem with WotC made "official" prestige classes, such as for example taking malconvoker levels as the summoner presented in this particular tome?

That's really going to depend on whether or not the given WotC PrC is shitty. A lot of them are, like that random one that turns you into a green robot or something. But some of them aren't, like Initiate of the Seven Veils or Shadowcraft Mage. But there have to be like 7000 of them in all the various books. And quality is srsly variable. Especially for casting PrCs.

So if you pair a Tome class with an interesting, good PrC, then that'll be good. But if you pair a Tome class with a shitty PrC, then the results will be less than ideal.

And then there's ability interaction to keep an eye out for. Some PrCs get crazy one-off abilities which can do very strange things when combined with other crazy one-off abilities

Maxus wrote:And then there's ability interaction to keep an eye out for. Some PrCs get crazy one-off abilities which can do very strange things when combined with other crazy one-off abilities

Yeah, off the top of my head Incantatrix comes to mind as a big no-no.

...am I crazy for having an idea for a character that involves the Feat Product of Infernal Dalliance, the class Conduit of the Lower Planes (or alternatively a Warlock), and the prestige class Ur-Priest (which should NOT be evil-only) when trying to design a half-fiend plotting to become a deity or get above the deities even? Edit: Since this thread IS about Tome of Fiends, I thought this question might be appropriate.

icyshadowlord wrote:...am I crazy for having an idea for a character that involves the Feat Product of Infernal Dalliance, the class Conduit of the Lower Planes (or alternatively a Warlock), and the prestige class Ur-Priest (which should NOT be evil-only) when trying to design a half-fiend plotting to become a deity or get above the deities even? Edit: Since this thread IS about Tome of Fiends, I thought this question might be appropriate.

It works mechanically, as much as Ur Priest ever does. It works flavor-wise too. What exactly are you asking?

He wants to know if he's crazy.

Yes, icy, you are crazy.

I think the crazy part comes from me thinking that character could at some part of a campaign (I doubt any campaign would last that long) go out on her way and kick the Lady of Pain over and take over Sigil or some crap like that. Hell, if Vecna almost succeeded in that (and he's not even a greater deity, for fuck's sake), why can't a player character (or NPC since I doubt any local DM would let me play that character) be able to do that?

really? I thought the crazy part comes in when you post on this forum...

...so now I'm not only evil, but crazy as well?

Should I feel insulted, flattered, both or neither?

neh, you're in good company. I long ago made peace with the fact that I'm insane and evil.