The Gaming Den

1. Extend Summoning can be (ab(used) by pulling out some of the more obscure spells on the summoning school, but its primary utilty is that it jacks up the length a low level summoning sits around so that it can be pulled in just before a fight. So you can summon it outside a room and send it in and it won't vanish before it makes contact with the enemy.

2. Wall of Thorns is impenetrable except by completely arbitrary means that take so incredibly long that they might as well not be possible in a combat setting. Essentially, a Thorn Wall is a Druid's wall of force. Look up the actual rules on that spell sometime - it's not made of wood, it's made of arbitrarium.

3. What he said.

-Username17

Damn lack of capitalization. I swear, I can't see shit when it's all small like that. I serioulsy cant' evem reasd most of wath I'm writin.g



Wow...thanks for the insight on Wall of Thorns. I've always assumed it was kinda meh because none of my cheese-happy players have ever touched it. Cool.

Essence at [unixtime wrote:1158703388[/unixtime]]Damn lack of capitalization. I swear, I can't see shit when it's all small like that. I serioulsy cant' evem reasd most of wath I'm writin.g

What are you talking about, Ess?

Game On,
fbmf

fbmf at [unixtime wrote:1158705218[/unixtime]]

Essence at [unixtime wrote:1158703388[/unixtime]]Damn lack of capitalization. I swear, I can't see shit when it's all small like that. I serioulsy cant' evem reasd most of wath I'm writin.g

What are you talking about, Ess?

Game On,
fbmf

He's drunk.

I'm trying to blame my total miss of Dimensional Lock on the Summoner spell list on the fact that it's not capitalized in the "srd" that DragonChild posted. That's all.

In honor of the recent, ultra-expensive re-release of The Sandman, I wrote up a few spheres...

Delirium
Special: Immunity to Insanity or Confusion of any kind.
Level, Benefits
1 Hideous Laughter
3 Glitterdust
5 Fear
7 Mass Reduce Person
9 Song of Discord
11 Greater Shout
13 Irresistible Dance
15 Scintillating Pattern or
17 Prismatic Sphere
19 Quickened Insanity

Despair
Special: Supernatural touch range Calm Emotions at will.
Level, Benefits
1 Ray of Enfeeblement
3 Touch of Idiocy
5 Stinking Cloud or Slow?
7 Crushing Despair
9 Symbol of Pain
11 Mind Fog
13 Symbol of Stunning
15 Curse of Crumbling Conviction as an Immediate action
17 Energy Drain
19 Mass Hold Monster

Destiny
Special: You may force a reroll once per day.
Level, Benefits
1 Command
3 Augury
5 Magic Circle
7 True Seeing
9 Commune
11 Geas
13 Greater Restoration
15 Discern Location
17 Miracle or Gate?
19 True Resurrection

Destruction
Special: Supernatural touch range Shatter at will.
Level, Benefits
1 Shillelagh
3 Death Knell
5 Poison
7 Rusting Grasp
9 Insect Plague
11 Greater Dispel Magic
13 Destruction
15 Earthquake
17 Mage’s Disjunction or Crushing Hand?
19 Storm of Vengeance

You may notice that some are missing: Dream is Sleep, Desire is Seduction, and Death is of course Death.

I'm also thinking of writing up a few more for the expanded "Planar Conduit" base class (not just for fiends anymore!).

1: How *does* the "Summon Ability work?

2: Why doesn't Extended Summoning work on anything level appropriate? 4th level spells at levle 19? They could jsut take extend spell adn use a 5th-level slot.

3: Why isn't "Augment SUmmoning" somewhere in this progression? *Every* Summoner will want it, so why not throw it in somewhere?

Summon works like the Summon ability you find in various Outsiders. The others are design things I can't answer.

1. Summon works like the "summon" ability found in the monster manual: one or more creatures has a percentage chance of appearing for one hour as a summoned monster. This creature can use its abilities normally (though as a summoned monster any durations of its effects will end when it vanishes or is destroyed); save that it cannot use its "summon" ability if it has one.
   
   
2. The Extend Summoning ability is very much intended to be a minor consideration. It's free, but it doesn't do a lot. Practically speaking, the only spells you're going to care much about are the ones you are quickening. :shrug: Like the Wizard, it doesn't really get its power from this kind of class feature.
   
   
3. It's not in the progression because every Summoner wants it. As such, it would only be viable to hand it out as a class feature if it was being handed out at level 1 - otherwise it would severely undermine Human Summoners who did the obvious thing and shilled out for Augment Summoning at level 1 with their own feats. I didn't particularly feel that the class needed that kind of boost at first level - you've got the 1/day celestial dog (which at first level means quite a bit).
   

Do I think the Summoner is a little light on high level class features? Hellz yes I do. But this class is also intended to play in the same sandbox as the Wizard and the Cleric - which means that the power pretty much comes from the spell list. If I was designing D&D from scratch I would give people universal ability slots that were character level dependent and allow them to fill them with abilities that were class dependent and then I'd give each class a definable combat advantage every level that was non-numerical and have the character's numbers be character level generated - but that's beyond the scope of the ToF unfortunately.

-Username17

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1169369455[/unixtime]]
If I was designing D&D from scratch I would give people universal ability slots that were character level dependent and allow them to fill them with abilities that were class dependent and then I'd give each class a definable combat advantage every level that was non-numerical and have the character's numbers be character level generated - but that's beyond the scope of the ToF unfortunately.

What do you mean by this exactly with regard to universal ability slots?

Are you saying that every character would get slots organized by level and then fill them with stuff depending on what class they were. So wizards might fill it with spells and fighters would fill it with ToB style manuevers and so on?

RandomCasualty at [unixtime wrote:1169403448[/unixtime]]
What do you mean by this exactly with regard to universal ability slots?

I think he means he'd have a list of "abilities" for each class that get better and better as you advance in level, without having to put more resources into it. Like "Undead creation/control" or "Fire Magic". He had a whole list of them a while back.

Is there any chance of you actually writing such a system?

I've been looking hard at the Tome of Fiends classes lately, and I'm confused.

Firstly, what races are you supposed to make into these Fiendish types? All of them have a requirement "is an evil outsider or has evil outsider blood"... so what can you do with them (without taking a Level Adjustment, that is...) besides be a Tiefling?

Also, the BaB progressions they have don't make much sense. There is the Conduit, which is a primary caster, the Brute, an obvious melee grunt, and the True Fiend, which goes half and half. Trick is, the True Fiend gets full BaB, the Conduit gets 3/4, and the Brute gets 1/2! Why?

Endovior at [unixtime wrote:1170739443[/unixtime]]I've been looking hard at the Tome of Fiends classes lately, and I'm confused.

Firstly, what races are you supposed to make into these Fiendish types? All of them have a requirement "is an evil outsider or has evil outsider blood"... so what can you do with them (without taking a Level Adjustment, that is...) besides be a Tiefling?

Aasimar, or the feat which makes you fiend-blooded.

Endovior at [unixtime wrote:1170739443[/unixtime]]Also, the BaB progressions they have don't make much sense. There is the Conduit, which is a primary caster, the Brute, an obvious melee grunt, and the True Fiend, which goes half and half. Trick is, the True Fiend gets full BaB, the Conduit gets 3/4, and the Brute gets 1/2! Why?

The true fiend is the quintessential 'evil outsider' class. It is a fighter/mage, and gets outsider HD/BAB/saves/skills.

The conduit is a cleric-type caster. 3/4 BAB, armored, and uses domains. Theoreticaly slightly worse than a wizard in terms of casting versatility.

The brute uses natural weapons and gets strength boosts. It has no need for BAB beyond getting Edge, and is supposed to be a bruiser rather than a 'skilled fighter.' If it did get full BAB, it's attacks would quickly outpace a comprable tank's.

For the skill of War +1 permanently added to him at level 5 for a hellwalker, is this any different from the normal +1 BAB that he'd get?

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1173341548[/unixtime]]For the skill of War +1 permanently added to him at level 5 for a hellwalker, is this any different from the normal +1 BAB that he'd get?

Nope, your BaB goes up one point. That's it.

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1173341548[/unixtime]]For the skill of War +1 permanently added to him at level 5 for a hellwalker, is this any different from the normal +1 BAB that he'd get?

It is no different from gaining +1 BAB from taking a level in a class that provides it. However, the Hellwalker is a 3/4 BAB class so it wouldn't normally grant a BAB at level 5.

Essentially, the Hellwalker has a 4/5 BAB progression. The first level sacrifices a BAB, but the rest of the levels do not.

-Username17

Are the Summon Frost Beast spells on the Summoner's spell list just like Conjure Ice Beast from Frostburn except Conjuration(Summoning) instead of Conjuration(Creation)?

I'm guessing. Yes.

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1174000216[/unixtime]]Are the Summon Frost Beast spells on the Summoner's spell list just like Conjure Ice Beast from Frostburn except Conjuration(Summoning) instead of Conjuration(Creation)?

Absolutely. Making those creation effects was a bad idea for a number of reasons.

-Username17

Can a Summoner use his Summon Cohort abiltiy to extend a spell with a duration of concentration to 24 hours, like Storm of Vengeance?

What is the caster level and equivalent spell level of the Summoner's Summon ability?

If someone with the Greater Teleport(self) feat or ability had a portable hole or similar to transport heavy relatively large goods with how would it effect profit checks compared to controlling a portal?

In fact wouldn't any serious fiendish businessman dealing with heavier goods have a portable hole to transport such? It's only 20,000 gp which shouldn't be too big an investment for any of the higher ranked fiends who're actively garnering wealth.

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1174770205[/unixtime]]Can a Summoner use his Summon Cohort abiltiy to extend a spell with a duration of concentration to 24 hours, like Storm of Vengeance?

Refer to the following, and read the text next time.

Tome of Fiends wrote:Summoned Cohort: Once per day when a Summoner casts a Conjuration spell of the [Summoning] subschool, she may extend its duration to 24 hours. This ability is not cumulative with other effects that increase the duration of a spell.

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1175327695[/unixtime]]What is the caster level and equivalent spell level of the Summoner's Summon ability?

As with most spell-like abilities, the caster level is equal to hit dice. Equivalent spell level is trickier, but 'equal to the highest-level spell the Summoner can cast' works.

Calibron at [unixtime wrote:1175537133[/unixtime]]If someone with the Greater Teleport(self) feat or ability had a portable hole or similar to transport heavy relatively large goods with how would it effect profit checks compared to controlling a portal?

In fact wouldn't any serious fiendish businessman dealing with heavier goods have a portable hole to transport such? It's only 20,000 gp which shouldn't be too big an investment for any of the higher ranked fiends who're actively garnering wealth.

Not so much as you might think; it's not that "guys who can plane shift while carrying portable holes put me out of business" so much as "my competitors consist of a few enterprising self-employed traders while I run an empire of peons". Portals that are actively in use for commercial purposes move goods fast, all the time. Demons running around making money, less so. It's the difference between a guy offering boat rides over to an island, and a bridge to that same island. Sure, the guy with the boat can take you to any island you want; but if you're going to that island, the bridge is more convenient.

Endovior at [unixtime wrote:1175675802[/unixtime]]
Not so much as you might think; it's not that "guys who can plane shift while carrying portable holes put me out of business" so much as "my competitors consist of a few enterprising self-employed traders while I run an empire of peons".

Problem is that an empire of peons doesn't do you any good in D&D.