I'm trying to damndest to find actual information concerning 4th edition. Hell, I don't even know what races are going to be in the PHB. It sounds like they might have three different elves though...woodsy elf, wizardy elf (eladrin), and half-elf; but they might not. I think I found a rumour that there won't be half-orcs or gnomes.
Wait a minute, does this mean the races will be: human, dwarf, tiefling, halfing, elf, elf, and elf lite?
4E information
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4E information
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How do you confuse a barbarian?
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Re: 4E information
Have you listened to the podcast?
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Re: 4E information
Which one?
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
Re: 4E information
The ones after the announcement of 4th edition.
Koumei wrote:I'm just glad that Jill Stein stayed true to her homeopathic principles by trying to win with .2% of the vote. She just hasn't diluted it enough!
Koumei wrote:I am disappointed in Santorum: he should carry his dead election campaign to term!
Just a heads up... Your post is pregnant... When you miss that many periods it's just a given.
]I want him to tongue-punch my box.
The divine in me says the divine in you should go fuck itself.
Re: 4E information
No half-orcs or gnomes? That's an excellent decision.
Re: 4E information
No complaints here (about dropping those two). Shame about all the elves, but ah well. At least there's a net increase in prettiness in core, I suppose.
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Re: 4E information
Well, lets see. There is some fairly confirmed info. (ENworld is compiling pretty much all the random crap if you really want to know)
Races: Human, Dwarf, Tiefling, Halfling, Elf (wood elves) Eladrin (remade into high elves, with some sort of movement based power), and Half-elves. And possibly a MYSTARY! race.
30 levels, broken down into heroic (1-10), paragon (11-20), and epic? (21-30).
Every class has actual, honest to goodness abilities of some types. Number of classes is uncertain again (for a while they were saying 8), broken by 'role': Defender, Striker, Leader [healer], and Controller.
Pretty much confirmed classes (for PH1)-
Fighter, Paladin (Defenders)
Rogue, Ranger (Strikers)
Cleric, Warlord (Leaders)
Wizard (Controller)
and Warlock which was mentioned as a controller at one point, but the most recent podcast is saying Striker. But its clear that the warlock will be in the PH.
AC, Will, Reflex and Fortitude are all static, level-based defenses. Roll attacks (normal and magical) against a target number, rather than rolling saves.
Some spells are definitely going away, including Wish. There probably won't be 30 spell levels, but someone mentioned 25 or so at one point.
Monsters also have roles- brute, lurker, controller, etc.
Monsters also have levels rather than hit dice, apparently, and are broken into categories. Rather than the 4 on 1 conceit that 3 has, 4E is a 1 on 1 thing. So a 'normal', level appropriate encounter will be 5 monsters against 5 characters. However...
'minion' monsters are weaker and are 2 per normal slot. (So 10 minions vs. level appropriate PCs would be an enouncter). Elite monsters go the other way (so 2 would be an appropriate encounter for 4 PCs). And Solo monsters are just that. A single dragon or beholder is capable of taking on an entire party on their own.
Races: Human, Dwarf, Tiefling, Halfling, Elf (wood elves) Eladrin (remade into high elves, with some sort of movement based power), and Half-elves. And possibly a MYSTARY! race.
30 levels, broken down into heroic (1-10), paragon (11-20), and epic? (21-30).
Every class has actual, honest to goodness abilities of some types. Number of classes is uncertain again (for a while they were saying 8), broken by 'role': Defender, Striker, Leader [healer], and Controller.
Pretty much confirmed classes (for PH1)-
Fighter, Paladin (Defenders)
Rogue, Ranger (Strikers)
Cleric, Warlord (Leaders)
Wizard (Controller)
and Warlock which was mentioned as a controller at one point, but the most recent podcast is saying Striker. But its clear that the warlock will be in the PH.
AC, Will, Reflex and Fortitude are all static, level-based defenses. Roll attacks (normal and magical) against a target number, rather than rolling saves.
Some spells are definitely going away, including Wish. There probably won't be 30 spell levels, but someone mentioned 25 or so at one point.
Monsters also have roles- brute, lurker, controller, etc.
Monsters also have levels rather than hit dice, apparently, and are broken into categories. Rather than the 4 on 1 conceit that 3 has, 4E is a 1 on 1 thing. So a 'normal', level appropriate encounter will be 5 monsters against 5 characters. However...
'minion' monsters are weaker and are 2 per normal slot. (So 10 minions vs. level appropriate PCs would be an enouncter). Elite monsters go the other way (so 2 would be an appropriate encounter for 4 PCs). And Solo monsters are just that. A single dragon or beholder is capable of taking on an entire party on their own.
Re: 4E information
Voss wrote:Rather than the 4 on 1 conceit that 3 has, 4E is a 1 on 1 thing. So a 'normal', level appropriate encounter will be 5 monsters against 5 characters. However...
'minion' monsters are weaker and are 2 per normal slot. (So 10 minions vs. level appropriate PCs would be an enouncter). Elite monsters go the other way (so 2 would be an appropriate encounter for 4 PCs). And Solo monsters are just that. A single dragon or beholder is capable of taking on an entire party on their own.
Hey it's the CR system, but somehow even more convoluted.
Re: 4E information
Not really. Its basically one on one, but some monsters are too weak or strong for that, but have the bonuses and stats to be in the proper level range.
With the CR system you can throw an EL horde thats technically appropriate (when you start doubling shit for different CRs) but can't actually harm the party. With this, you can have minions that go down fairly easily, but still have the attack bonus and damage dealing capability that they're actually a credible threat.
Its just convoluted in trying to explain it without jargon. A normal (of the same level) monster = 1 PC. Minion = 1/2 a PC, and Elite = 2 PCs. Solo = 5 PCs. Simple math gives you a number = # of PCs. Simple.
In theory, the monsters are also appropriate across a small range of levels (So for a theoretical example, ogres might be appropriate for levels 4-6), but that I will have to see to believe.
With the CR system you can throw an EL horde thats technically appropriate (when you start doubling shit for different CRs) but can't actually harm the party. With this, you can have minions that go down fairly easily, but still have the attack bonus and damage dealing capability that they're actually a credible threat.
Its just convoluted in trying to explain it without jargon. A normal (of the same level) monster = 1 PC. Minion = 1/2 a PC, and Elite = 2 PCs. Solo = 5 PCs. Simple math gives you a number = # of PCs. Simple.
In theory, the monsters are also appropriate across a small range of levels (So for a theoretical example, ogres might be appropriate for levels 4-6), but that I will have to see to believe.
Re: 4E information
Yeah but having every monster be c*(a PC) AND giving them a level range within which they're supposed to be used is just the CR system.
But convoluted.
But convoluted.
Re: 4E information
The CR system seems far more convoluted to me. A CR 8 critter is a challenge (supposedly) for 4 8th level character. So are 2 CR 6 critters, in a way that makes no actual sense.
Plus, if you don't actually have 4 characters, the CR system just plain ain't right. Having a party of 6, or 3 or 7 gets damn hard to balance when a critter is supposed to work against 4.
Not that its balanced anyway, since the 'dog-pile on the monster' approach kills just about anything damn quick.
A 1 on 1 approach is a lot easier to balance against actual parties- it doesn't matter how big or small your group is, because the system isn't designed around an arbitrary number of characters . The different classifications allow for shaking it up a bit, and allows for some interesting encounters, assuming the elites and solo monsters are designed right. If the monsters are done right, a pair of owlbears (elites) and a small troop of bugbears can be a challenge for the same party at the same level. I don't think you can convincingly do that with the CR system. At least not with bending, breaking or out-right ignoring it.
Plus, if you don't actually have 4 characters, the CR system just plain ain't right. Having a party of 6, or 3 or 7 gets damn hard to balance when a critter is supposed to work against 4.
Not that its balanced anyway, since the 'dog-pile on the monster' approach kills just about anything damn quick.
A 1 on 1 approach is a lot easier to balance against actual parties- it doesn't matter how big or small your group is, because the system isn't designed around an arbitrary number of characters . The different classifications allow for shaking it up a bit, and allows for some interesting encounters, assuming the elites and solo monsters are designed right. If the monsters are done right, a pair of owlbears (elites) and a small troop of bugbears can be a challenge for the same party at the same level. I don't think you can convincingly do that with the CR system. At least not with bending, breaking or out-right ignoring it.
Re: 4E information
Oh I wasn't saying the CR system is good. I'll just wait and see how this new system will work, but I'm going to bet it will suffer from similar problems.
Re: 4E information
I'm actually betting on a different set of problems that didn't even occur to them to check. Particularly for the Solo monsters (which, if the dragon and tidbits on the beholder are any indication, will act like a group of monsters in one body, with extra actions and lots of immediate action gimmicks).
I just think that it will be a lot easier to handle a group of monsters that can actually provide a challenge to the party, without overwhelming them.
I just think that it will be a lot easier to handle a group of monsters that can actually provide a challenge to the party, without overwhelming them.
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TavishArtair
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Re: 4E information
It is generally better to design the system around the idea that 4 PCs should run into something approximating 4 monsters, and 7 PCs should run into something approximating 7, and so on, as this is much easier to alter on the fly.
From what I've seen so far, it seems like the levels are of the monsters, not so much as to what level the PC is supposed to be, although obviously a monster of 16th level and a PC of 16th level should be roughly comparable if both are of a similar specialty.
I haven't heard anything about eladrin having movement based powers. They're supposed to be the arcane dudes who happen to have pointed ears, and might also have green blood. Movement doesn't seem exceptionally suited there. Could you provide the source?
From what I've seen so far, it seems like the levels are of the monsters, not so much as to what level the PC is supposed to be, although obviously a monster of 16th level and a PC of 16th level should be roughly comparable if both are of a similar specialty.
I haven't heard anything about eladrin having movement based powers. They're supposed to be the arcane dudes who happen to have pointed ears, and might also have green blood. Movement doesn't seem exceptionally suited there. Could you provide the source?
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Username17
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Re: 4E information
Designing monsters from the standpoint of "this monster is roughly equivalent to one PC" is actually easier to extrapolate from than "this is a monster which if it shows up in a group of four is supposed to be a challenge for the PCs".
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Re: 4E information
From what I understand, levels are going to be universal. A level 10 monster and a level 10 PC are (in theory) equal. And possibly a level 10 spell is a spell you get at 10th level, though I'm unsure about that.
Source for eladrin? Some WotC person's blog.
Ripped from ENworld, since they're keeping track of everything. Just beware of the commentary, since its often... vapid.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t ... uote]using the eladrin movement ability to position myself for a flank[/quote]
Eladrin, in this edition, are high elves, who are slightly more fey than they used to be. But not necessarily fey enough to be fey. Not sure what kind of flavor this movement thing has. They just can.
'Elves' are wood elves.
I'm rather curious as to what the MYSTARY! race is. Because dwarves are going to feel awfully damn lonely with all the humans, part humans and a whole passle of elvish. Plus the halfling, which will probably be a slightly elvish-flavored human midget.
Source for eladrin? Some WotC person's blog.
Ripped from ENworld, since they're keeping track of everything. Just beware of the commentary, since its often... vapid.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t ... uote]using the eladrin movement ability to position myself for a flank[/quote]
Eladrin, in this edition, are high elves, who are slightly more fey than they used to be. But not necessarily fey enough to be fey. Not sure what kind of flavor this movement thing has. They just can.
'Elves' are wood elves.
I'm rather curious as to what the MYSTARY! race is. Because dwarves are going to feel awfully damn lonely with all the humans, part humans and a whole passle of elvish. Plus the halfling, which will probably be a slightly elvish-flavored human midget.
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Username17
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Re: 4E information
From what I understand, levels are going to be universal. A level 10 monster and a level 10 PC are (in theory) equal.
I can't imagine that even Hasbro would be that fvcking retarded. Or at least, their statement that 4 level X players are supposed to be fighting 4 level X enemies is not compatible with that statement. That's just like using the 3rd edition CR rules and telling the DM to throw them at the players 4 at a time. That'll kill the players almost half the time, barring DM fiat. And of course if the PCs lose almost half their games, there isn't a campaign. It's just a set piece.
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Re: 4E information
MYSTERY Drow?
or Catgirls?
or Catgirls?
Re: 4E information
Hopefully neither. Someone was gibbering a playtest report about them controlling an Empire, but it may or may not be normal for that race.
Drow, in particular would piss me off. Not only is the 'women and black people are scary' thing awfully tired and bigoted, but they're also far past the point where they're even vaguely interesting. Plus that'd be fully half the PH races as Elvish.
Drow, in particular would piss me off. Not only is the 'women and black people are scary' thing awfully tired and bigoted, but they're also far past the point where they're even vaguely interesting. Plus that'd be fully half the PH races as Elvish.
Re: 4E information
Oh for fuck's sake. The theme black = evil predates slavery by several centuries. Your stance is just another example of misplaced white guilt which makes talking about anything even remotely connected to the topic damn near impossible.
Re: 4E information
I've been commenting a lot about this over in Astrid's parlor, but here is my uncensred raw opinion. If you want to talk about EVIL, look at the drow, they have WHITE hair. Now pure white hair is always associated with albinos and albinos have always been associated with EVIL right?
The point is that pure white hair is exceptionally rare in humans. You know what so too is charcoal grey skin. So too is a european nose, oriental eyes and super vulcan pointed ears. (In Japan I believe long pointed noses are evil and no one naturally trusts Vulcans.)
No I'm sure I know the mystery race. That race we all know and hate from Ebberon.
"If they only had a brain; it they only had a heart; if they only had the nerve."
The point is that pure white hair is exceptionally rare in humans. You know what so too is charcoal grey skin. So too is a european nose, oriental eyes and super vulcan pointed ears. (In Japan I believe long pointed noses are evil and no one naturally trusts Vulcans.)
No I'm sure I know the mystery race. That race we all know and hate from Ebberon.
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Re: 4E information
FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1194544578[/unixtime]]
I can't imagine that even Hasbro would be that fvcking retarded. Or at least, their statement that 4 level X players are supposed to be fighting 4 level X enemies is not compatible with that statement.
DIdn't they say 4 CR X against 4 PCs of level X, as opposed to 4 monsters of level X. I think that the new CRs may not necessarily be the same as level.
Re: 4E information
Assume teh n00b is not very familiar with Eberron and explicitly say what race?
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
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--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
Re: 4E information
MrWaeseL at [unixtime wrote:1194550058[/unixtime]]Oh for fuck's sake. The theme black = evil predates slavery by several centuries.
Goshums, Wakko, really? Actually, you're absolutely and totally wrong. Slavery goes back to the beginning of recorded history and has nothing whatsoever to do with skin color.
Your stance is just another example of misplaced white guilt which makes talking about anything even remotely connected to the topic damn near impossible.
Actually my stance is that drow are lame and stupid, and I know throwing that line at them irritates the fanboys.
@random- CR is totally gone, as a game term. Monsters are described in terms of level as far as I know. This preview card for the spined Devil is a good example- top card is 4E, bottom is the 3.x card.
http://www.enworld.org/images/4e/monstestat.jpg
Note the Level 6 skirmisher in the upper right.
Oh... and the stat block has a lot of discussion around it. Its probably the stat bonus + 1/2 level (for skills), but some are suggesting more bizarre ideas.
Regarding Frank's concern, I simply misstated things a bit when I used the term 'equal' (no one at WotC has actually said that). What I should have said was a level 6 critter is an appropriate encounter for a level 6 character
Maxus- he's referring to Warforged, though the reference is more the Wizard of Oz than Eberron. Its possible, too, sadly. Its been tossed around before. I'd rather see Orcs or Gnolls, really, since there is complete lack of a 'strong guy' race. Though Wizard's has been very bad at figuring out what the hell to do with balance for any race that dares to have a bonus to strength...
Actually... I'd like to see Hobgoblins. Some seriously untapped potential there, that goes far beyond faux-japanese.