Races of War

[User3]

1156972931[/unixtime]]A couple of other notes from my recent experience building a samurai:

Or, rather, whatever 1-handed x4 pick you can find.

- Why use a one-handed weapon?

Because if the samurai isn't using a 2-handed weapon, it's pointless to even mention the bastard sword. Unless, of course, the said samurai is also an Exotic Weapon Master (as you say).
If the samurai is an EWM, he is encouraged to use the exotic one-handed crit x4 pick.

[Iaimeki]

Because if the samurai isn't using a 2-handed weapon, it's pointless to even mention the bastard sword. Unless, of course, the said samurai is also an Exotic Weapon Master (as you say).
If the samurai is an EWM, he is encouraged to use the exotic one-handed crit x4 pick.

That's true. In WotC's rules, the big advantage of the bastard sword is that it's an exotic weapon (so it qualifies for EWM) that can be used with only martial proficiencies provided you use it with two hands (why WotC thought that was a disadvantage I will never know). Under RoW, there's no reason ever to use one, AFAICT.

[josephbt]

could somebody please explain mass combat to me, if it weren't too much trouble.
like, which dice to roll and stuff like that. i tried to figure out combat between an unit of elven archers and human swordsmen and it always looked to me like the elves won.

[Essence]

Quick question - when using Combat School to daze someone, do you also deal normal damage on that strike? Similarly, when using Subtle Cut?

The only way I can see these two being balanced appropriately for their BAB requirements is if Combat School is just a daze, while Subtle Cut dazes and damages, letting you juggle an opponent to death if it will consistently fail the save.

Even then, Subtle Cut seems really weak at +1, +6, and +16. But then, I haven't really tried to abuse it...yet.

[RandomCasualty]

1157496369[/unixtime]]
Even then, Subtle Cut seems really weak at +1, +6, and +16. But then, I haven't really tried to abuse it...yet.

Well the dex damage can be crazy good. A lot of big monsters, like dragons have around 10 dex. Get a couple of guys doing subtle cut on it and you're doing 4d4 dex damage (Average of 10). Meaning on average you immobilize the thing, which is pretty good. Even if you don't your third strike surely wil take it out.

The daze ability seems very weak for a capstone ability, I find that the 2d4 dex is much more useful. Also looking it over, the daze ability needs to mention which type of save it is. Personally I think the daze should just work on the first attack you make on your turn and should allow full attacks. Otherwise it sorta just sucks.

The reduced movement rate also has some nice applications in certain circumstances. Wounding is kinda nice too. Except for the dazing ability and the initial +1 to damage, it looks like a pretty good feat.

[Iaimeki]

One thing's been bothering me: there's no equivalent for Spring Attack in the Races of War feats. Is this intentional? While it's way overcosted in the core, I don't think the concept is bad, and I think it offers interesting tactical possibilities.

[RandomCasualty]

1158207340[/unixtime]]One thing's been bothering me: there's no equivalent for Spring Attack in the Races of War feats. Is this intentional? While it's way overcosted in the core, I don't think the concept is bad, and I think it offers interesting tactical possibilities.

Actually Spring attack would be very powerful with improved delay for a fighter. You simply ready an action every round to attack the guy and spriing attack away (which you can do as a standard action). Effectively, it makes you immune to charges.

[Shokatsuryou]

For the most part, Spring Attack seems to have been folded into the Whirlwind feat:

+6: As a full round action, you may take a regular move action and make a single attack against each opponent you can reach at any point during your movement. Roll one attack roll and compare to each available opponent's AC individually.

This can totally be the move-attack-move portion of Spring Attack if you want. Even better, you can attack more than one guy if you can reach them. It does lack the AoO immunity granted by Spring Attack though... (although most likely a character with Whirlwind would invest in Tumble).

On the other hand, there are several combat feats in the PHB that do not exist in Races of War. Endurance, Improved Sunder, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, and the entire Improved Unarmed Strike feat tree all come to mind.

I suspect some of these might be made into parts of the future Skill feats (like Quick Draw as part of Sleight of Hand, for example).

[Iaimeki]

1158243238[/unixtime]]For the most part, Spring Attack seems to have been folded into the Whirlwind feat:

+6: As a full round action, you may take a regular move action and make a single attack against each opponent you can reach at any point during your movement. Roll one attack roll and compare to each available opponent's AC individually.

This can totally be the move-attack-move portion of Spring Attack if you want. Even better, you can attack more than one guy if you can reach them. It does lack the AoO immunity granted by Spring Attack though... (although most likely a character with Whirlwind would invest in Tumble).

On the other hand, there are several combat feats in the PHB that do not exist in Races of War. Endurance, Improved Sunder, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, and the entire Improved Unarmed Strike feat tree all come to mind.

I suspect some of these might be made into parts of the future Skill feats (like Quick Draw as part of Sleight of Hand, for example).

Oh, yes. I was reading the feat wrong for some reason.

I think some of the IUS tree was folded into the monk class abilities. Juggernaut is a replacement for Improved Grapple. I don't think there's any equivalent for Deflect/Snatch Arrows, though.

K noted on the WotC Races of War thread that as written (and yes, this is really stupid) Sleight of Hand lets you draw weapons as a free action as long as you have it trained, because it has no DC; the DC given is for opponents' Spot checks, to see if they notice you drawing your weapon. Of course, as famously observed by SnowSavant on the WotC boards, a literal interpretation of the Sleight of Hand rules lets you strip your opponents naked in the middle of battle: you take a -20 your Sleight of Hand check to take your opponents' stuff as a free action, but you don't care because all that does is let your enemy see that you're taking their stuff, it doesn't actually stop you from taking it. The only thing that might limit it is the "small object" verbiage in the table, but even then that doesn't stop you from palming their rings, amulets, wands, etc. at will.

[Crissa]

The pickpocketing rules don't have a point that lets them stop you? O-o

-Crissa

[User3]

So here's the deal: Aasimar are the great grandchildren of beautiful outsiders. They aren't just for being dudes with Devas as ancestors, the same game stats represent characters who come from Erinyes or Marilith stalk.

You want stock. Unless, of course, you're trying to be funny in a way I don't understand.

[Crissa]

The stalk market is closed on Sundays.

[erik]

I suppose a disguised Erinyes could be a plant.



[edit: doh, got distracted from my main point.

I've always ruled that when the pickpocket attempt is spotted that it also fails (unless the spotter for some reason allows it to proceed, maybe they had an explosive rune left in their pocket as a cute surprise for filchers... something my homegame wizard is going to do to dissuade our stupid rogue... once he gets some frickin levels that is). I never realized that that was my own little house rule. Whoops.]

[User3]

but it will take a while to include it into my games, as it is in no book format I can buy, and I can't prepare stuff when I just stare at my PC. Gives me a headache.

Now to my question:

Why wasn't "Having the Edge" restricted with a higher difference between the two BABs, like the rogues sneak attack (can only sneak a rogue that is 4 lvls lower then yourself, if he has uncanny dodge or something).
As a player you encounter many enemies with higher BABs then yourself (I know, it's DM dependent, but you usually fight a Monster that has a higher CR, then a single character of your group). Something like a BAB difference of 2-3 would be something I would think ok.

-CJ-

[Username17]

Why wasn't "Having the Edge" restricted with a higher difference between the two BABs, like the rogues sneak attack (can only sneak a rogue that is 4 lvls lower then yourself, if he has uncanny dodge or something).

Because low levels exist, and Full BAB progression is supposed to mean something. The difference between a Fighter and a Wizard at 2nd level is only 1 BAB. The difference between a Fighter and a Rogue at 4th level is only 1 BAB. For many games, 1 BAB is the mightist difference that they will ever see.

That being said, there are a number of monsters out there that have absurdly high BABs. The Giant Crab has a CR of 3 and it has a BAB of +6 or so - that means that any possible setup is going to have the Giant Crab having the Edge, so worrying about it from that perspective is pointless.

The Edge exists to make characters with combat classes feel special. And that means that it has to provide genuine benefits for really small bonuses - that's all a player is apt to have over an NPC.

-Username17

[Sir Neil]

A Hobgoblin [anything] is a viable character, but if you want your mouth to taste like velveeta you'd make your Rogue a Deep Halfling, you'd make your Wizard a Gray Elf, and you'd make your Fighter a Dwarf.

What advantages do deep halfling rogues offer over the basic halfling?

[Iaimeki]

1159229197[/unixtime]]What advantages do deep halfling rogues offer over the basic halfling?

• 
  
• Darkvision. If you want to sneak around underground, a lightsource is a dead giveaway of intruders for anything with darkvision, which is practically everything that's not humanoid and many things which are.
  
• Stonecunning lets you make Search checks to find stonework traps without having to spend ridiculous amounts of time actively searching. That you also get a bonus on these checks is only icing on the cake.
  
• You don't give up anything you care about. Bonuses on Climb and Jump are forgettable, and the only thing you might care about, the Move Silently bonus, you can easily make up for by just buying a slightly more expensive Move Silently item than you do a Hide item.
  

[Sir Neil]

Now that you mention it, those are pretty much the same advantages my dwarf ninja had in the all-elf party. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Crissa]

...Why can't underground races only have darkvision and not regular vision?

Why would they even know what regular light was?

-Crissa

[Fwib]

1159251451[/unixtime]]...Why can't underground races only have darkvision and not regular vision?

Why would they even know what regular light was?

-Crissa

Because regular light is long-distance and lets you see colour and read books etc (or can you read books with 3.5 darkvision?) these are all very useful things.

[Crissa]

1159297510[/unixtime]]Because regular light is long-distance and lets you see colour and read books etc (or can you read books with 3.5 darkvision?) these are all very useful things.

...But there's no light in the underdark. So 'very useful' becomes 'only useful once in a long, long time'.

You don't need to read to do any of the things which involves procreation.

Or do colorblind Deep Halflings not get a chance to get it on with other Deep Halflings?

-Crissa

[erik]

Would you want to live in a black and white world when you knew colors existed? That's likely a creature comfort that halflings wouldn't want to give up. Color is often an indicator of ripeness, health, etc. I can totally see deep halflings using lights. I could even see drow and other races of the under dark using lights in daily life.

Besides, being able to see only 60' all the time would certainly suck.

I bet there is tons of light in the underdark (glowing moss and continual flames mostly). Just a lot less of it where there's potential for adventurers to be about.

[Crissa]

Then why don't unintelligent creatures not have regular sight?

Where's the darn blind fish?

And how often do you see 60' inside a warren?

-Crissa

[erik]

1159376566[/unixtime]]Then why don't unintelligent creatures not have regular sight?

Where's the darn blind fish?

And how often do you see 60' inside a warren?

-Crissa

I'm sorry, I don't know if you're referring to reality or RPGs at this point. In reality there are plenty of blind cave critters (fish among them) who don't even have darkvision.

As for the RPGs, probably because the writers didn't care enough to mimmick that aspect of nature.

As for the warrens, how often am I inside a warren for that matter?

When I think of under-dark dwelling, yes there are cramped caves and passages, but there are also the huge expanses like in Moria.

[User3]

Blitz [Combat]
You go all out and try to achieve goals in a proactive manner.
Benefits: While charging, you may opt to lose your Dexterity Bonus to AC for one round, but inflicting an extra d6 of damage if you hit.
+1: You may go all out when attacking, adding your Base Attack Bonus to your damage, but provoking an Attack of Opportunity.
+6: Bonus attacks made in a Full Attack for having a high BAB are made with a -2 penalty instead of a -5 penalty.
+11: Every time you inflict damage upon an opponent with your melee attacks, you may immediately use an Intimidate attempt against that opponent as a bonus action.
+16: You may make a Full Attack action as a Standard Action.

Just a question: can this feat be used in conjunction with ranged attacks? A literal reading says yes unless I've missed something. If the answer is "yes," was it meant to be?

Just checkin'