Tome of Necromancy (Full)

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Judging__Eagle
Prince
Posts: 4671
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada

Post by Judging__Eagle »

They specifically target the body.

I think that the idea is to show that the Dominions 3 Method of power allocation between "flavours" and "schools" of magic is a good idea.

I've also run a Stranger through games (Wiz 9, Conduit 1 (got a Sphere that gave Magic Jar). The character basically casts their Magic Jar, and trapped the soul in their Trinket (a golden bracer studded with sapphires; souls trapped via the Magic Jar went into the gems).

The character used their Magic Jar fairly offensively; but had to be careful to not be too far from their last body. They were one of the only PCs to take a death in that campaign; rushing a boss who was opening a gate that summoned a bunch of wraiths.

Aside from that, the PC made a killing via soul-trapping; but never actually spent their resources, not sure what they should buy, and content with their ability to Magic Jar enemies "whenever".
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.

While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

One of the points we were making was that Necromancy can plausibly do anything if it has a sort of deathish feel to it. So for example while you might immediately think "enchantment" when people talk about controlling fools, you could just as easily think "necromancy" if that control happened to be done with bone manipulation (like Animate Dead) or soul manipulation (like Magic Jar).

-Username17
User avatar
fbmf
The Great Fence Builder
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by fbmf »

Tome of Necromancy wrote: The fact that undead don't have a Constitution score means that Ghouls can run for exactly zero rounds before they have to make a Con check (that they automatically fail) to continue (and also says it can "run on indefinitely", a base contradiction that makes us sad).
Emphasis mine.

Where does it say that? I can't find it in the 3.5 MM, and don' know where else to look.

Game On,
fbmf
CapnTthePirateG
Duke
Posts: 1545
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Post by CapnTthePirateG »

FrankTrollman wrote:One of the points we were making was that Necromancy can plausibly do anything if it has a sort of deathish feel to it. So for example while you might immediately think "enchantment" when people talk about controlling fools, you could just as easily think "necromancy" if that control happened to be done with bone manipulation (like Animate Dead) or soul manipulation (like Magic Jar).

-Username17
Or evil cancer tumors. Looking at you, book o' questionable latin.
OgreBattle wrote:"And thus the denizens learned that hating Shadzar was the only thing they had in common, and with him gone they turned their venom upon each other"
-Sarpadian Empires, vol. I
Image
Red_Rob
Prince
Posts: 2594
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:07 pm

Post by Red_Rob »

3.5 Monstrous Manual p.312 "Nonabilities" - "A creature with no constitution cannot tire and thus can run indefinitely without tiring (unless the creature's description says it cannot run)"
Simplified Tome Armor.

Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

Try our fantasy card game Clash of Nations! Available via Print on Demand.

“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” - Voltaire
fectin
Prince
Posts: 3760
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:54 am

Post by fectin »

It's not a contradiction; it's a special case. The most specific text takes precedence, and that's all that's happening with ghoul marathoners.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17340
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

Think someone can explain to me why the Alignment options didn't talk about Playing With Fire and Mummies? Seems to me like Mummies should be similar to Revanents in Alignment.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Endovior
Knight-Baron
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Endovior »

I think you've got it in one; rather like Revenants, Mummies, being magically bound to the eternal task of guarding a specific tomb, are Lawful Evil if negative energy is evil, and Lawful Neutral if it's not.

Why wasn't this mentioned explicitly? Most likely because:

1: Mummies aren't a special case; being similar enough to other under types that you could probably extrapolate their situation on your own (like you just did)
2: Mummies aren't a popular player option, being neither something your average player wants to be or to animate.

Hell, the only reason the Energons got a mention is because they're really weird, and thus fell under special case hard. They probably didn't deserve the mention, since there were only five, but there you go.
FrankTrollman wrote:We had a history and maps and fucking civilization, and there were countries and cities and kingdoms. But then the spell plague came and fucked up the landscape and now there are mountains where there didn't used to be and dragons with boobs and no one has the slightest idea of what's going on. And now there are like monsters everywhere and shit.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

Energons got called out because they shoot cure bolts at people and don't have any friends, putting them on the Lesser Planar Binding shortlist.

-Username17
Endovior
Knight-Baron
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Endovior »

Okay, so there actually was a player use for Energons. I stand corrected.

Still, they were certainly the most obscure things mentioned; and it was a valid question to ask why them and not Mummies. After all, when you say 'Mummy', everyone knows what you're talking about, and when you say 'Xag-Ya', they haven't a clue.
FrankTrollman wrote:We had a history and maps and fucking civilization, and there were countries and cities and kingdoms. But then the spell plague came and fucked up the landscape and now there are mountains where there didn't used to be and dragons with boobs and no one has the slightest idea of what's going on. And now there are like monsters everywhere and shit.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17340
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

On another note, I think I've found a happy medium between Playing With Fire and Crawling Darkness for people who want Negative Energy to be unaligned, but like the ravenous skeletons described in Tome. Basically it's just PWF, but with the caveat that certain variants do act that way and are thus evil.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
User avatar
virgil
King
Posts: 6339
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by virgil »

Are Tome vampires restricted to any creature types?
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

virgil wrote:Are Tome vampires restricted to any creature types?
No.

D&D has vampire dragons, vampire ixitxachitl, vampire yuan-ti abominations, and so on and so forth. Historically in 3e what they did was to make separate vampire templates for all the different types (vampire dragon template, monstrous vampire template, and so on). But that's dumb. Much better to just remove the restrictions from a single vampire template and walk slowly away.

-Username17
darkmaster
Knight-Baron
Posts: 913
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:24 am

Post by darkmaster »

Are there Vampire Cloakers? And do they have double alien minds that even they can't comprehend?
Kaelik wrote:
darkmaster wrote:Tgdmb.moe, like the gaming den, but we all yell at eachother about wich lucky star character is the cutest.
Fuck you Haruhi is clearly the best moe anime, and we will argue about how Haruhi and Nagato are OP and um... that girl with blond hair? is for shitters.

If you like Lucky Star then I will explain in great detail why Lucky Star is the a shitty shitty anime for shitty shitty people, and how the characters have no interesting abilities at all, and everything is poorly designed especially the skill challenges.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17340
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

I don't know, but I remember that Dragon magazine did a couple of articles that just described monster team ups, and each time they had a vampire teamed up with some random thing, including a cloaker in one for some damned reason.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
User avatar
virgil
King
Posts: 6339
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by virgil »

Even with the prerequisite of Constitution drain, that seems like it could get weird; I mean, vampire ooze? But now that I think about it...
Image
Double checking again...
Special Attacks: The character can drain blood from a helpless or willing victim, inflicting 2 points of Constitution Drain per round. The character heals 5 points for each point of Constitution drain in this way, and consuming 4 points of Constitution from intelligent creatures is considered enough "food" for one day (and the vampire gains no sustenance from any other food). Humanoids slain by this Constitution Drain may rise as vampires or vampire spawn
Underlined for emphasis. Blech on me and my casual attention span.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
User avatar
virgil
King
Posts: 6339
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by virgil »

Does the swordwraith have a minimum level before existing or taking levels in paragon? Could you conceivably take Whispers of the Otherworld, find a level 3 Warrior NPC mercenary corpse, then animate them into a level 3 paragon?
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

virgil wrote:Does the swordwraith have a minimum level before existing or taking levels in paragon? Could you conceivably take Whispers of the Otherworld, find a level 3 Warrior NPC mercenary corpse, then animate them into a level 3 paragon?
You could indeed. DR 10/Magic would be pretty boss for a 3rd level warrior, but it's not unprecedented.

-Username17
User avatar
virgil
King
Posts: 6339
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by virgil »

What's the motivation for making Tasha's Tomb Tainting so low level? I've got a couple players upset at the relative disparity of effort.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Username17 »

virgil wrote:What's the motivation for making Tasha's Tomb Tainting so low level? I've got a couple players upset at the relative disparity of effort.
Tomb Tainting is a 10 minute ritual that costs 500 gp. It's basically a plot device, since you won't ever be able to use it in a meaningfully contested area. The spell slot it takes up isn't a meaningful part of the cost. But since the "evil wizard defiles sacred altar" plot is something that can be played out at any level, there's no need to level gate the effect.

-Username17
Post Reply