The Gaming Den

Yea, but if you're a PC you don't particularly care what happens after you die.

SunTzuWarmaster at [unixtime wrote:1201479782[/unixtime]]Yea, but if you're a PC you don't particularly care what happens after you die.

Is that some kind of a joke? PCs should have goals too!

SunTzuWarmaster at [unixtime wrote:1201479782[/unixtime]]Yea, but if you're a PC you don't particularly care what happens after you die.

My, how nihilistic and/or solipsist.

PC = NPC, IMO. The only difference is that when you're a PC, you are also not every NPC.
The person behind an NPC is every NPC, and none of the PCs.
Regardless, they should be equals.
Encounters should not be valued by the assumption that "NPCs will have a short lifespan anyway, with an endpoint of whenever they encounter the PC party."

Edit: Oh, and yeah I do know you're joking... but I'm serious.

FrankTrollman wrote:Revenants
"Fear me first before all other evils under the heavens. Before even Death, for I am hatred and do not die."

A revenant is the victim of a murder driven to avenge their own death. A game master might allow a character to return from the dead as a revenant if their character died in a particularly unfair fashion or if their character had a lot left to do.

Character Modifications:

Type: The character's type changes to Undead and the character's former type becomes a subtype with the "augmented" modifier. The character also gains the Dark Minded subtype.

Hit Dice: The character's BAB, Saves, and skills are all unaffected. The character must reroll his Hit Points, but every hit die is a d12.

Ability Scoress: The character loses his Constitution score.

Alignment: The character's alignment changes to Lawful.

Special Qualities: The character cannot be turned, but may be rebuked. The character heals completely at the setting of the sun, unless he is in a Tomb or hallowed area. This healing can even bring him back from destruction, but if his body is nailed to the ground (or in a Tomb or hallowed area), he can never come back from the dead by any means.

Level Adjustment: +0

So, uh, do Revanants get a paragon class? Someone in that upcoming game is deadset on playing an undead, and I'm trying to do some damage control.

Eh, I ended up scraping something out. He wants to play as a Revenant killed by one of the antagonists. So I ended up stealing some features of that old Ghostwalker PrC into something that's hopefully appropriate for the character.

Revenant Paragon
HD: d12 BAB: Good (as Fighter) Fort: Good Reflex: Bad, Will: Good
Skills: (I'll slap these in when I have time)
Skill points: 4 + Int

1. Painful Reckoning, Can't Run Far Enough
2. Tone of Steel, Bad Choice of Friends
3. Liberation, New Purpose

Painful Reckoning (Ex): The Revenant Paragon's very existance is driven by the burning desire for revenge against one person, who is unaware of his peril. Starting at first level, The Revenant Paragon receives double his class level to all attack rolls, damage rolls, armor class, Bluff, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, and Spot checks made against the target of his painful reckoning.

The Revenant Paragon may only have the Painful Reckoning bonuses against one person at a time, but there may be multiple candidates who have wronged the Revenant Paragon enough to qualify (For example, if you were tortured and murdered by group of four people, they would all qualify, but only one could be targeted at a time.)
Generally, a Revenant Paragon hunts people responsible for his murder, but other people--such as trusted friends who profoundly betrayed him or someone who murders the Revenant's friends or family may also qualify.

Can't Run Far Enough (Ex): The Revenant Paragon receives a silent blessing from the gods of revenge and wrath, and afterwards, receives the certain knowledge of his target's passage, should he cross ground passed over by his enemy, and the Revenant Paragon is even aware of which direction his enemy was traveling. This functions even against flight and travel across water, but the trail stops abruptly if the target has teleported or left this plane of existance (Such as by Dimension Door, Teleport, or Plane Shift, or similar spells). A lost trail may be found again, if the Revenant finds it later on, when the subject is again traveling normally.

Similarly, if the Revenant Paragon hears of any event with which the target of his painful reckoning was involved, whether or not the target is mentioned, he receives certain knowledge that it is associated somehow with his enemy.

Steel Tone (Ex): The Revenant Paragon brooks no foolishness in pursuit of his enemy, and it shows in his voice. At 2nd level, anyone he questions about his enemy finds him or herself affected by a strong desire to be very, very truthful, as per the Zone of Truth effect. Save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 the Revenant Paragon's ranks in Intimidate.

Bad Choice of Friends (Ex): The target of a Revenant Paragon's painful reckoning is not a good person to get attached to. Beginning at 2nd level, the Revenant Paragon receives half his Painful Reckoning bonus against the immediate allies and underlings of his enemy, should he be aware of the connection.

Liberation (Ex): After fulfilling his dark desire for revenge, the Revenant Paragon is free. After 3rd level, should the target of his painful reckoning die or receive an appropriately horrendous punishment, the Revenant Paragon's purpose is fulfilled, he loses his Painful Reckoning ability (but see below) and he is allowed to truly die at a time of his decision.

New Purpose (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, if there is some personal reason to stay in the material would, then the Revenant Paragon may choose to stay. A new purpose can be guarding a person, place, object, or family line, or finding someone or something, or helping allies with their own tasks, or accomplishing some other goal, or even exacting revenge on someone else. Should anyone (or any group of people) ever strike against the Revenant Paragon's new purpose (For example, if someone murders a friend the Revenant Paragon swore to guard, or performing some other heinous act that affects the Revenant Paragon or his purpose directly), that person or group now qualifies as the target(s) of a Painful Reckoning.)

Revenant Paragon wrote:Painful Reckoning (Ex): The Revenant Paragon's very existance is driven by the burning desire for revenge against one person, who is unaware of his peril should.

Not sure how this line should end.

How many targets of later Painful Reckonings can there be at once? New Purpose does not make it clear. (One or Many?)

Fwib at [unixtime wrote:1203520894[/unixtime]]

Revenant Paragon wrote:Painful Reckoning (Ex): The Revenant Paragon's very existance is driven by the burning desire for revenge against one person, who is unaware of his peril should.

Not sure how this line should end.

How many targets of later Painful Reckonings can there be at once? New Purpose does not make it clear. (One or Many?)

That messed up line was probably from where I was trying find the right wording and left the 'should' in.

Painful Reckoning is supposed to be in response to a major transgression--betrayal, rape, murder--that was an extremely important event. Given that this is a Revenant, it's practically a certainty that the character's death was involved. But it could be something like, "The man with the axe slew my six-year-old son in front of me, the woman drowned my wife in the river, and their leader's pleasure was tangible as they all took turns in breaking and mutilating my body until he finally let me bleed me to death." In which case, the Revenant Paragon would have three possible targets from which to choose.

Probably the best way to put it would be to copy the blurb off the back of the novel Ghostwalker (which is much, much cooler than the actual novel. The actual story was, oh, a five-pound bag filled to capacity with crap.)

"This scar on my arm is the mark of the thin man's sword.

These on my chest, the barbarian's gyrspike.

This, on my shoulder, the woodman's axe.

And this rasping whisper, all that is left of my voice, it is the scar of the Lord Singer's jealousy.

They took my voice and my life and left my body for the crows. But not all who die rest in peace."

I'll try to clarify as I can. And, since I might be turning slightly OCD, I'll fixing errors as I find them.

Where can I find the rules for Lifesight? I'm trying to build an NPC who has the Ghost Cut Technique feat, and the feat looks about right, but a quick trawl through my books doesn't give me anything about rules/limitations for Lifesight.

A pointer (or an outright explanation) would be greatly appreciated.

Maxus wrote:Where can I find the rules for Lifesight? I'm trying to build an NPC who has the Ghost Cut Technique feat, and the feat looks about right, but a quick trawl through my books doesn't give me anything about rules/limitations for Lifesight.

A pointer (or an outright explanation) would be greatly appreciated.

I believe it can be found in the Libris Mortis. Unless I'm mistaken, it's like normal vision with the following modifications:

• Normal light sources do not provide illumination.
• Living creatures provide illumination as fires of their size.

At any rate, that's how it should work..

CatharzGodfoot wrote:

Maxus wrote:Where can I find the rules for Lifesight? I'm trying to build an NPC who has the Ghost Cut Technique feat, and the feat looks about right, but a quick trawl through my books doesn't give me anything about rules/limitations for Lifesight.

A pointer (or an outright explanation) would be greatly appreciated.

I believe it can be found in the Libris Mortis. Unless I'm mistaken, it's like normal vision with the following modifications:

• Normal light sources do not provide illumination.
• Living creatures provide illumination as fires of their size.

At any rate, that's how it should work..

Ergh. I just went through every monster entry in Libris Mortis and didn't see Lifesight.

But some work on Google turned up this:

Lifesight (Su): A negative fundamental swarm can detect living creatures within 100 feet. Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The creature usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures within range of its lifesight ability.

Interestingly, searching for Lifesight "Special Quality" is a good way to find many places where the Tome of Necromancy was posted.

'most kinds of concealment'?

-Crissa

Libris Mortis p.28 has the Lifesense feat.

Thanks for the pointer.

Hm. Yeah, that's pretty weird. I'll think whether it fits the character or not...

Equally weird is wondering how a character's supposed to get 9 ranks in Move Silently when he has three levels of Monk and three levels of Wizard.

I mean, I've whipped up a Raised By Fightan Monks background (A few Monk skills as class skills, and getting a half-fighting style (one ability instead of two)), but it still comes down to neither the Wizard nor Sorceror having Move Silently as a class skill.

Also, I have three feats to fill. One at level three, and then the level 12 and 15 feats if I don't pick the Whispers of the Otherworld/Ghost Cut Technique feat chain.

Maxus wrote:Thanks for the pointer.

Hm. Yeah, that's pretty weird. I'll think whether it fits the character or not...

Equally weird is wondering how a character's supposed to get 9 ranks in Move Silently when he has three levels of Monk and three levels of Wizard.

I mean, I've whipped up a Raised By Fightan Monks background (A few Monk skills as class skills, and getting a half-fighting style (one ability instead of two)), but it still comes down to neither the Wizard nor Sorceror having Move Silently as a class skill.

Only one class needs to have a skill in class to be able to cross-class up to character level +3 in ranks. Three levels of Monk is still 6 ranks in class, so you only have to cross-class for 3 more.

But then you need to spend at the cross-class rate, which absolutely blows

zeruslord wrote:But then you need to spend at the cross-class rate, which absolutely blows

....for three extra skill points. Heck, I sneeze and lose three skill points.

If you take a level of Monk last, you can drop down an entire level's worth of skill points into Move Silently and not cross-class anything.

-Username17

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

A first-time DM's trying to make a setting for a Tome of Necromancy-based campaign, and I'm trying to help by working out some NPCs for him, of varying levels.

So far, it looks like...

Haran the Boneblade Reaper (whom I was asking about earlier. Still need to sort his feats out.)

A Paladin/Bone Rider, as someone to see around.

A Lurker in the Swarm, or a Widow Queen, or both, as antagonists.

A Master of the Seven Mysteries, as someone to send them running around on missions and hand out appropriate rewards...

Some kind of mummy high cleric. I haven't decided too much about him yet.

And a big subplot might concern the revival of a Death King, although I'm looking for an appropriate base class to start him on, because of the spellcasting. I might pitch the idea of using Iaimeki's Eldritch Knight, since that'll only lose one caster level.

I'll put up any further questions or concerns as they come up.

'Consume' and 'Token' are in the wrong place on the level-table for Stranger with the Burning Eyes; they should be swapped.

Also, "Explosive Reaction" calls the PrC "Stranger with a Burning Soul" instead of "Stranger with the Burning Eyes"

Typo on Hellfire, it should read: "Should the Stranger with the Burning Eyes ever be killed"

The Death King doesn't have a hit die, and neither does the Skindancer.

Level 3 natural armor ability of the Death King isn't properly capitalized.

Surgo wrote:'Consume' and 'Token' are in the wrong place on the level-table for Stranger with the Burning Eyes; they should be swapped.

Also, "Explosive Reaction" calls the PrC "Stranger with a Burning Soul" instead of "Stranger with the Burning Eyes"

Typo on Hellfire, it should read: "Should the Stranger with the Burning Eyes ever be killed"

The Death King doesn't have a hit die, and neither does the Skindancer.

Level 3 natural armor ability of the Death King isn't properly capitalized.

Death King could have d12 HD, and the Skindancer d6.

Edit: As a side note, I'm working on a Bladesinging Assassin in the level 10-12. It's coming along nicely, but anyone have any ideas on what half-elves should be doing as a race? The best I can come up with is letting them pick and choose features from both elves and humans.

For the Widow Queen prerequisites, the spell "vampire touch" is probably referring to "vampiric touch".

Okay, character development time.

What're some interesting combinations of Frank and K feats for Assassins? I'm thinking in the level 10-12 range, possibly for three characters.

-There's all the Assassin-y skill feats possible--Alertness, Ghost Step, Stealthy, etc. These are interesting exploit points, because of the huge number of Skill Mastery skills Assassins get--I counted nine.

-There's always the good old Combat feats like Sniper and Point Blank Shot.

-There's also the Bladesong feat. Which works out for Assassins, because they have a caster level equal to class level and all those interesting Necromantic touch spells. It may even be able to give them a Divine-Power-like boost in BAB to help fuel Combat Feats to greater effect, depending on how you interpret the language on that "Sacrifice a spell slot to get BAB equal to caster level"

-There's also some Necromantic feats, specifically Whispers of the Otherworld and Ghost Cut Technique. Which would fit in, since this particular campaign is going to have necromancy all over the place, some of it relatively benign, some morally ambivalent, and some outright nasty. Being able to raise and control incorporeal creatures could be useful for the character who can do it. Free scouts/minions, if nothing else.

-That damn Exotic Weapon Assassins get proficiency in. Ideally, it'd be chosen for whether the Assassin operates in ranged or melee combat.

I'm throwing myself at Den mercy because I haven't ever had occasion to play Assassins, so I'm not sure if I'm seeing any of the interesting tricks.

Having never played an Assassin before either, I can't really help you. However, here are more Tome of Necromancy fixes:

- Bone Rider doesn't have a hit die.

Surgo wrote:Having never played an Assassin before either, I can't really help you. However, here are more Tome of Necromancy fixes:

- Bone Rider doesn't have a hit die.

d10 HD seems appropriate.

- Soul Merchant is missing its hit die (probably d4).
- Lurker in the Swarm, Harvest of the Bitter Nectar ability: "caught in by" -- weird grammar.
- Heartless Mage is missing # of skills/level.