The Gaming Den

I saw a version of this suggested on WotC a long time ago and I think it might be an interesting system, but I want to see what you guys think before I put it into motion.

I would like to remove the outliers from the current HD mechanic D&D uses for its core classes. This means ditching the d4 and the d12. This ups the survability of arcane casters and gets rid of the outlier Barbarian (I have a mechanic for his extra toughness I'll share in a minute.)

So here is how HD would then break down:

d6: Bard, Rogue, Sorceror, Wizard

d8: Cleric, Druid, Monk, Ranger

d10: Barbarian*, Fighter, Paladin

*The Barbarian would gain a new 1st level class ability called Wild Vitality or something similar.

Wild Vitality: At 1st level and every subsequent Barbarian level taken there after, whenever you roll your hit points for that level also roll a d6. On a roll of 1 add 0 HP's to your d10 roll, on a roll of 2-5 add 1 HP to your d10 roll, and on a 6 add 2 HP's to your d10 roll. This ability can only be used when you increase your Barbarian level.

This allows barbarian HP's to still range from 1-12, but 2-11 will be more common.

What do you guys think?

That seems reasonable. Remember the following when monkeying with the hit die mechanics (or any mechanic):

* While many people claim otherwise - the classes are not balanced in the first place. So tread carefully before you adjust any of them up or down.

* In 3rd edition, hit die size actually makes little difference after first level. A d4 at second level averages 2.5 hit points, a d12 averages 6.5 - a difference of 4. The lowest Con score you're likely to see at second level is 8, the highest you are likely to see is 20 - which is -1 and +5 - a difference of 6. Con bonuses are half again larger than hit die differences at 2nd level, and continue to rise in difference (at 12th level you can easily have a character with Con of 28 or 30 - and equally easily have a character with a Con of 8 - a difference in modifiers of 11), while the maximum average difference in hit points off of the hit die is still only 4 under any circumstances.

In short, you don't have to worry that giving arcane casters a d6 hit die will unbalance them. And you don't especially have to worry that giving Barbarians a d10 hit die will make them unplayable. As it turns out, with a d10 hit die the first two levels of Barbarian, where you get 4 skill points a level, Rage, Fast Movement, and Uncanny Dodge, are still better than any two levels of Fighter - even the first two. After that though, Barbarian was essentially a crappy class when it got a d12 - and giving it a d10 hit die doesn't make it any better.

So unless and until Barbarians start getting something cool in the 3rd-20th levels to make it worth taking the extra levels - it doesn't make any difference at all whether they get d12s or d10s. You'll note that in Final Fantasy d20, no core class gets a d4 or a d12 hit die (although some monstrous or prestige classes get d12 hit dice). That's not an accident.

-Username17

Thanks Frank, I figured you would feel the same way from the little bit of stuff I've seen you do.

I just think that having funky outlier classes in what's supposed to be a toolkit system is poor design. Even in the name of tradition.

Huh? The thread says 2 replies, but I only see one, and I don't see the original post...

...fbmf?

I see the whole thread, dude. Can't help you. Maybe it's a browser issue.

Game On,
fbmf

The Amazing Garden Weasel wrote:Huh? The thread says 2 replies, but I only see one, and I don't see the original post...

Whose do you see? Is it Frank's? In that case, you may have accidentally blocked Tae Kwon Dan.

I changed the HD for PC classes a bit for my DLCS campaign:

d4 --> d4 (average: 2.5)
d6 --> d5+1 (4)
d8 --> d6+2 (5.5)
d10 --> d7+3 (7)
d12 --> d8+4 (8.5)

I saw this posted on WotC a long time ago and I liked it. It increases the averages for the combat classes especially, and makes them less dependent on the Con modifier.

EDIT: Math is hard

A d8 + 4 averages 8.5, not 9.5

And while a d7 + 3 does average 7, what the hell is a d7?

-Username17

Oops, I'll edit the post.

A d7 is a d8 where you reroll an eight. Or a one, if you're superstitious.

Boulie and TKD, you've got systems where I get to roll twice as many die sometimes. I like dice.