Making the Warlock from Scratch

[Username17]

Okay, here's the deal: I think that magic in D&D is too powerful. Not just that magic *users* are too powerful, but magic itself.

That's understandable. Magic in D&D is about as powerful as in any game. Characters in Shadowrun, or World of Darkness, or even Champions pale in comparison to what even a mid-level Magician can do in D&D.

But that's because a character in D&D is supposed to be very powerful. The standard Orc Warrior is supposed to pose no meaningful threat to an 8th level character. Seriously, a character is supposed to be able to chop their way through essentially limitless armies of armed low-morale humanoids before they hit 10th level. And the game is supposed to go to 20th - where characters are supposed to be able to wade through essentially limitless armies of the guys who could wade through essentially limitless armies of normals.

---

Really, if you want to play D&D and you don't want a crazy power curve, you'r essentially stuck playing at levels 1-6. After that, things are supposed to go over-he-top bat shit crazy.

So I want a magical class that is less game-breaking (in terms of effects like teleport, fabricate, and wish) while still being good at fighting monsters. And one that a new player can quickly learn.

That's a really tall order. The spell list in the Player's handbook is 107 pages long, and more space is devoted to spells in new supplements than any other aspect of the game. Just being a "spellcaster" essentially is an intractable problem for any new player.

As I see it, you're really looking at the following list of real design criteria:

• Character must "feel like" a Wizard in the sense that if you saw him doing his stuff in a movie you'd describe him as a Wizard.
  
• Character must be able to take on opponents of his level drawn from Team Monster in a reasonable manner.
  
• Character must be able to be explained to a new player in a reasonable amount of time even starting at a high level.
  
• Character should have a defined battlefield role.
  
• Character should be able to exist at high level simultaneously with the 6th-level Knight centered feudalism that a lot of people think exists in D&D.
  
• Character should be forced to play with the wealth-by-level system.

The last two demands I don't think are practical. However, just off the top of my head, let's make a character that can sort of do that at least for a while:

Fire Mage
"Yes, fire is cool."

A Fire Mage is someone who burns their own soul out to burn the bodies of others. Tactically, they shine against groups of enemies, because fires spread across the battlefield like a plague.

Alignment: Fire is a destructive force, and a lot of Fire Mages are Chaotic. But they don't have to be.

Races: Fire Mages appear in all races, though significant portions of many races live in areas where being a Fire Mage is illegal.

Starting Gold: 6d6x10 gp (210 gold)

Starting Age: As Rogue.

Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: The Fire Mage's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (-), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus
BAB: Medium (as Cleric), Saves: Fort: Good; Reflex: Good; Will: Good

Level, Benefit
1 Fire Resistance, Fire Burst, Fire Bolts, Impress Flames, Fire Magic
2 Ignite
3 Piercing Flames, Hand of Fire
4 Fire Immunity, Smokeless Flame
5 Fireballs
6 Mindfire
7 Visions of Flame
8 Soul of Cinders
9 Sculpt Flames
10 Conflagration
11 Beacon, Firewalk
12 Bonds of Fire
13 Fire Clouds
14 Searing Light, Ray of Light
15 Sending, Rain of Fire

All of the following are Class Features of the Fire Mage class:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fire Mages are proficient with all simple weapons, as well as the whip, all martial axes, and all sizes and varieties of scimitar (including falchions). Fire Mages are proficient with light armor but not with shields of any kind.

Fire Resistance (Ex): A Fire Mage has a Resistance to Fire equal to twice his level.

Fire Burst (Sp): As a standard action, a Fire Mage can emit a burst of flame from his body, striking all creatures and objects within 10' of his position except himself. This burst of flames inflicts 1d6 of fire damage, with an allowed Reflex Save for half (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier).

Fire Bolts (Sp): A Fire Mage can throw bolts of fire as an attack action. A Fire Bolt tavels out to short range, and inflicts 1d6 of Fire damage per level. A Fire Bolt strikes its target with a ranged touch attack.

Impress Flames (Ex): Every time a Fire Mage inflicts Fire damage on any target, whether with his class abilities or another source of fire, he inflicts an amount of extra Fire Damage equal to his class level or his Charisma modifier, whichever is less.

Fire Magic (Ex): A Fire Mage is considered to have every spell with the Fire Descriptor on his spell list for the purpose of activating magic items.

Ignite (Sp): As a standard action, a 2nd level Fire Mage can cause any creature or object to burst into flame. A creature on fire suffers 1d6 of Fire damage per round (the Mage's Impress Flames ability applies to each round of course), and the creature can attempt to put itself out with a DC 15 Reflex save (see the DMG, p. 303). This ability can be used out to Medium range, and it always hits.

Piercing Flames (Ex): From 3rd level on, a Fire Mage's Fire cuts through Fire Resistance, hardness, and Immunity. No more than ½ of the damage inflicted by his fire damage can be negated by hardness or immunity or resistance to Fire. In addition, the Fire Mage ignores the first 5 points of Fire Resistance that a target has.

Hand of Fire (Su): A 3rd level Fire Mage can set fire to their own body, causing them to count as armed at all times, even with unarmed attacks. The Fire Mage also causes an extra 1d6 of Fire damage with all melee attacks.

Fire Immunity (Ex): A 4th level Fire Mage is immune to Fire.

Smokeless Flame (Sp): A 4th level Fire Mage can create fires that produce no heat and do not burn. These fires can be anything from the size of a torch to a bonfire, and produce light accordingly. Each lasts until the next time the sun rises. Smokeless Flame can be created anywhere within Medium range.

Fireballs (Sp): A 5th level Fire Mage can hurl explosive fire anywhere within Long Range as a Full Round Action. This Fire explodes into a 20' radius burst and inflicts 1d6 of Fire Damage per level. All creatures within the area are entitled to a Reflex save to halve damage (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier).

Mindfire (Sp): A 6th level Fire Mage can start a Fire in a creature's mind, duplicating the effects of rage or confusion for a number of minutes equal to his Level. The victim must be within Medium Range, and is entitled to a Will Save to negate this effect (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier). This is a Mind influencing Compulsion effect.

Visions of Flame (Sp): A 7th level Fire Mage can contact other plane to communicate with the denizens of the Elemental Plane of Fire. A Fire Mage is in no danger of becoming insane or damaged by this experience.

Soul of Cinders (Sp): An 8th level Fire Mage has burnt his soul to ash, and is no longer susceptible to Energy Drain or Fear.

Sculpt Flames (Sp): A 9th level Fire Mage can create delicate shapes and walls made of fire. The Fire is fully shapeable, but cannot pass through more than 2 squares per level. Any creature passing through a square with fire in it suffers 1d6 of fire damage per level. A creature which is in a square that is being filled with fire is entitled to a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier) to move to the nearest non-flaming square as an immediate action. These fires persist for 1 round per level. Alternately, the Fire Mage can replicate a wall of fire which persists for 1 minute per level.

Conflagration (Sp): At 10th level, a Fire Mage can surround himself with a nimbus of flames that extends for 10' in all directions from his person. All other targets in this area suffer a d10 of Fire Damage per level, but are entitled to a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier). In addition, a Fire Mage can cast fireshield at will (Hot Shield only).

Beacon (Sp): An 11th level Fire Mage can create a magically permanent bonfire as a standard action. He always knows exactly where each Beacon he has created is and will know if it is put out by any means.

Firewalk (Sp): At 11th level a Fire Mae can walk into any fire large enough to fit his person and appear in any other fire that is likewise of sufficient size anywhere on any plane of existence. The Fire Mage must know where the target fire is. The Fire Mage can take any number of willing creatures or carried objects that are also able to fit in both flames.

Bonds of Fire (Sp): A 12th level Fire Mage can craft solid fire and entrap a victim in it. The bonds will immobilize a creature which fails a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier), and will entangle the creature unless it succeeds in its save by more than 5. A creature can attempt to escape by taking a Full round action to make a Strength or Escape Artist test with a DC equal to the Use Rope Skill Result of the Fire Mage. The victim suffers 20 points of Fire Damage per round, and the bonds of fire last until the victim escapes or the Fire Mage dismisses them.

Fire Clouds (Sp): As a Full Round Action, a 13th level Fire Mage can create huge billowing clouds of Fire. The Fire Clouds must be created within Long range, and persist for 3 rounds whether they are still in range or not. The cloud is shapeable, and covers at most 3 10' cubes per Level. Each round, everyone and everything inside the cloud suffers 1d6 of Fire damage per level, but is entitled to a Reflex save for half damage (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier).

Searing Light (Sp): A 14th level Fire Mage can call levels of illumination that are painful and destructive as the unmitigated baleful glare of the sun itself. All darkness within 5 miles is dispelled, and everything is illuminated. All undead suffer a 10 points of damage per round. All creatures specifically vulnerable to light suffer 10 damage per round (thus, vampires suffer 20 damage per round). All creatures are dazzled. Creatures must pass a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Charisma Modifier) every minute or become blind for the remainder of the effect. Creatures that are blinded when the effect ends are entitled to another Fort save to get their vision back, but if they fail this save the blinding is permanent. This effect lasts until the Fire Mage dismisses it or he is incapacitated.

Ray of Light (Sp): As an attack action, a 14th level Fire Mage can fire a ray of Light at any target within Short Range. It inflicts 1d6 of Light Damage per level if it hits with a Ranged Tuuch Attack. Undead take 10 extra damage. Creatures specifically vulnerable to Light suffer an additional 10 damage.

Sending (Sp): A 15th level Fire Mage can send a message, as the sending spell to any creature on any plane of existence with a standard action and receive a reply even if they are on different planes of existence.

Rain of Fire (Sp): At 15th level, the Fire Mage can open the skies and dump raw inferno upon all who would oppose him. The fires inflict 1d6 of Fire Damage per level, and victims are permitted a Reflex save (DC 10 + ½ level + Charisma Modifier). The Fire Mage chooses which squares are struck with fire, and the only limits to how many squares can burn is how many squares the Fire Mage can see. There are no range limits to this power save line of sight.

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That's a basic artillery piece character that should be fairly easy to explain tactically. And it has a couple of neat schticks, and a reason to exist at high level if you intend to fight the occassional army.

-Username17

[Crissa]

1169934202[/unixtime]]

1169769205[/unixtime]]

How do you manage all of these ideas at the same time?

He sits on the toilet a lot.

Are you spying on Frank's washroom?

He doesn't close the door.

[OrionAnderson]

Yes, the Fire Mage there is very much the kind of thing I had in mind.

As for your assertion that D&D is meant to be high-powered: Yes, that's true, but only to a certain point. The CR system holds that low-level opponenet sbecome irrelevant, and that's fine. Fantasy literature is full of guys who are so hardcore they can singlehandedly stab armies in the force and/or call down extreme burning on them.

I really have no problem with mid to high level magicians being invulnerable to normal attack, able to sweep away hoards of mooks, etc.

What bothers me is not so much the immunity to mundane observation as the immunity to the world itself.

Spells like Teleport, Fabricate, and Magic Jar and so on give magicians ridiculous world-altering powers that have absolutely no bearing on the CR system. Sometime's I'm cool with that-- for every powerful spell, it destorys many stories and make others possible. Each spell comes from the literature, so there's no particular one I want to ban.

But occasionally I wish for a magic class without access to an inifinite number of powers, without the ability to make limitless wealth, to gate in solars, to polymorph/shapechange cheese, to create hurricanes and earthquakes, and generally reshape the world as they see fit.

I see D&D characters as superheroes-- incredibly hardcore with a couple of over-the-top powers, but preferably still forced to interact with the world around them.

[Cielingcat]

To preserve the flavor of the Warlock as some crazy guy who bargains away his soul for power (or gets power from his blood), I've made a composite of the True Fiend and Fire Mage.

Warlock
“I have all the powers of Hell at my disposal. Who are you to question me?”

Some people want power, and are crazy enough to offer their soul to various not nice people to get it. Others are simply (un)lucky enough to be descendants of those same people. However they managed to get their abilities, Warlocks wield the powers of the lower planes, which include powerful magic spells and the ability to shoot hellfire out of their hands.

Alignment: Warlocks who bargain away their souls for power tend to be Evil, though nothing requires them to be. In fact, demons and devils will jump on the chance to corrupt someone Good to Team Evil, but such instances are rare. People whose power comes from their blood can be any alignment.

Races: Warlocks can be any non-Outsider. Actual Outsiders don’t bargain away their souls because they already have the ability to use the powers they would get, and that is represented by them having access to classes like True Fiend or Conduit of the Lower Planes. However, a Warlock who later becomes an Outsider can still be a Warlock.

Starting Gold: 4d4*10 gp (100 gold)

Starting Age: As Rogue.

Hit Die: d6
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skills/Level: 4+ Int modifier, x4 at first level.
BAB: Medium, as Rogue.
Saves: Fort: Poor, Reflex: Good, Will: Good.

Level, Benefit
1: Sphere, Eldritch Blast
2: Fiendish Similarities
3: Sphere
4: Call Fiends
5: Hellfire Blast
6: Sphere
7: Damage Reduction
8: Bonus feat
9: Sphere
10: Dark Blast
11: Fiendish Servant
12: Sphere
13: Energy resistance
14: Fear Aura
15: Sphere, Fiendish Apotheosis

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Warlocks are proficient in light armor, shields (but not tower shield), and simple weapons.

Sphere: A Warlock gains basic access to a sphere at every third level. If the Warlock selects a sphere that he already has basic access to, he upgrades it to advanced access. If he already had advanced access, he gains expert access.

Eldritch Blast (Su): As an attack action, a Warlock may fire a blast of fire at his foes. This has a range of Close (25 feet +5 ft./2 levels), does 1d6 damage per level of Warlock, and requires a ranged touch attack to hit.

Fiendish Similarities: A 2nd level Warlock may qualify for and take feats with the [Fiend] or [Necromantic] tag, as long as he meets the other requirements. For [Necromantic] feats, he may use his character level as his caster level.

Call Fiends (Sp): At 4th level, a Warlock can Summon an Outsider with the [Evil] subtype once per day, as long as the Outsider’s Challenge Rating is 3 less than his character level or lower. He can also choose to double the number of creatures summoned by reducing the max CR of the creatures by 2 per doubling (a 9th level Warlock could summon one CR 6 fiend, two CR 4 fiends, 4 CR 2 fiends, or 8 CR 1 fiends). This is treated as a spell of one half the Warlock’s level, rounded down, with a caster level equal to his levels in Warlock.

Hellfire Blast (Su): At 5th level, a Warlock may choose to fire a blast of hellfire instead of normal fire, at the cost of 2d6 points of damage (i.e. a 5th level Warlock could use a 5d6 fire blast or a 3d6 hellfire blast). This blast bypasses fire resistance and deals half damage to creatures with fire immunity.

Damage Reduction (Ex): At 7th level, a Warlock gains damage reduction equal to one half his class level, rounded up. This damage reduction is bypasses by whatever material is baneful to the Warlock’s fiendish patron or ancestor (silver for Baatezu, wood for Yugoloths, stone for Demodands, and iron for Tanar’ri) or Good aligned weapons. At 13th level, it is bypassed only by one of those, which the Warlock chooses upon taking the level. If a Warlock later takes levels in True Fiend, the damage reduction stacks and, at the third level of True Fiend, is bypassed only by weapons that are both Good and made of a baneful substance.

Bonus Feat: At 8th level, a Warlock gains one bonus feat, which can be any [Fiend] feat he qualifies for.

Dark Blast (Su): At 10th level, a Warlock may choose to change the damage of his Eldritch Blast to Unholy damage by reducing the damage it deals by 4d6 (a 10th level Warlock could opt to fire a 10d6 fire blast, 8d6 hellfire blast, or 6d6 unholy blast).

Fiendish Servant: An 11th level Warlock is followed by a cohort whose CR is 2 less than his level, but the cohort can only have levels in True Fiend, Fiendish Brute, or Conduit of the Lower Planes (they can also have racial hit dice).

Energy Resistance: At 13th level, a Warlock gains resistance 10 to two energy types of his choice, and resistance 5 to a third.

Fear Aura (Su): At 14th level, a Warlock can radiate a 20 foot aura of Fear as per the spell at will with a caster level equal to his character level. Save DC is 10+1/2 HD+Cha modifier.

Fiendish Apotheosis: A 15th level Warlock becomes an Outsider with the [Evil] subtype, even if his own alignment is not evil. He is immortal and does not age. This allows him to qualify for the Fiend classes, which can be used to fill out his last 5 levels.

[Bigode]

Shouldn't this be at "It's My Own Invention"?

However, that's still less abilities at-will than a Druid has at the same level. Remember Shapechange? Every round you can become a new creature out of any monster book and use any of their Supernatural Abilities. That means that a Druid at 20th level almost certainly has hundreds of At-will abilities, including free wishes (Zodar), hastes (Gambol), flesh to stone cloud (gorgon), and healing (Energon).

Just to clarify, is that because limited-use abilities are reset with each form? If that's the case, is there a basis for saying that it actually is (not that I think it's un-break shapechange, of course, as it'd just be a matter of finding multiple wishing monsters to get multiple wishes out of a single spell that is supposed to be as powerful as one wish)?

Also, I was curious on the "orthodox" warlock fix: what'd people say about a warlock that got 1 invocation/level, where all scale continuously in a fashion related to the base effect, and hideous blow was a class feature that applied to ranged attacks and was an attack action allowable as many times per round as the now-full BAB allowed?

[fbmf]

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Yes, Bigode, it should.
[/TGFBS]

[Neeek]

1186606571[/unixtime]]
Also, I was curious on the "orthodox" warlock fix: what'd people say about a warlock that got 1 invocation/level, where all scale continuously in a fashion related to the base effect, and hideous blow was a class feature that applied to ranged attacks and was an attack action allowable as many times per round as the now-full BAB allowed?

Well, the main problem with the Warlock as I see it is their Invocations are generally gained too late. I'd do everything you did, but move the categories forward a level each (lesser at 5th, whatever the third level whose name I can't remember at 9th, dark at 13th, and another level that doesn't exist yet at 17th.)

I assume you are including a rewrite of hideous blow that removes that AoO from using it.

[Bigode]

Well, the main problem with the Warlock as I see it is their Invocations are generally gained too late. I'd do everything you did, but move the categories forward a level each (lesser at 5th, whatever the third level whose name I can't remember at 9th, dark at 13th, and another level that doesn't exist yet at 17th.)

I assume you are including a rewrite of hideous blow that removes that AoO from using it.

Hideous blow: yep. And: good idea, thanks; that means one'd have to make the highest-level invocations, though.

[Username17]

1186606571[/unixtime]]Just to clarify, is that because limited-use abilities are reset with each form? If that's the case, is there a basis for saying that it actually is (not that I think it's un-break shapechange, of course, as it'd just be a matter of finding multiple wishing monsters to get multiple wishes out of a single spell that is supposed to be as powerful as one wish)?

The problem is that there's no basis for comparison of monster abilities. Every set of abilities is ideally internally balanced, but Cornugons cast persistent image at will and only have 3 fireballs and 3 lightning bolts each day. There's no rhyme or reason for that, they just do. So using up the limited spells from Cornugon form isn't really meaningful contrasted with say the 3/day earthquake or mass charm that a Solar gets.

Worse, while some Supernatural Abilities are continuous buffs (like the Chronotyrin double action bullshit), other Supernatural Abilities are fire-and-forget (like a Phoenix's "win D&D" or a Zodar's Rush of Strength or Alter Reality). It doesn't even matter if you force the player to keep a memory of which bullshit abilities he has cranked through when the monster book pile has gotten thick enough.

If a Druid has made his 1 wish as an Air Element Pit Fiend this year he'll just use his Fire Element Pit Fiend wish today.

-Username17

[JonSetanta]

I laugh when I think of how 3.0, and by relation 3.5e, were passed off as fixed and balanced compared to AD&D, yet are so chock full of Sacred Cows that I swear only THAC0 and ability scores have changed.
It's like decking a house cat out like a horse, giving it a horse-appropriate name, and bit n bridle, riding it, then wondering why it buckled under the weight of such expectations.

Did the designers really think that by reworking every 'classic' monster they would somehow lose the essence of what makes D&D? pssshh

Well, as a new class with absolutely no previous history in all of D&D, I really expected it's debut to start fresh like a spring bud out of a pile o manure, but instead we got more shit.
Hideous Blow disappoints me the most out of all Warlock capabilities, since I really wanted to make a melee-style "I may look weak, but I will kick you so hard your ancestors' crotches will ache" without doing so once per round for sucky damage and really poorly at that.
The Invocations were a bad idea, and should have been more related to Arcane magic, alterable by metamagic feats in a unique but similar way, and even after all that useable at-will.
No reason other than taking more space in splatbooks and pumping out more Invocation-feats in Warlock-only sections/supplements as far as I can see.

I'd like more variable class options like the Dungeonomicon Monk, some elemental options however few, and some degree of crossover with actual Arcane spellcasting rather than Invocations. The latter could still be SLAs but I'd like a balanced, sane way to apply some of the abundant slot-based metamagic feats to them in some way.

[Bigode]

If a Druid has made his 1 wish as an Air Element Pit Fiend this year he'll just use his Fire Element Pit Fiend wish today.

True - I was thinking more along the lines of changing from pit fiend to zodar, completely forgetting to change from pit fiend to pseudonatural pit fiend, or something of the like.

BTW, what're the exploits you can imagine coming from a guy with Su abilities from aberrations (preferentially of CR up 15) - not that I'm thinking about giving access to it: another guy is, and I'd like to have some (objective) proof against the idea.

[Captain_Bleach]

1186708566[/unixtime]]

1186606571[/unixtime]]Just to clarify, is that because limited-use abilities are reset with each form? If that's the case, is there a basis for saying that it actually is (not that I think it's un-break shapechange, of course, as it'd just be a matter of finding multiple wishing monsters to get multiple wishes out of a single spell that is supposed to be as powerful as one wish)?

The problem is that there's no basis for comparison of monster abilities. Every set of abilities is ideally internally balanced, but Cornugons cast persistent image at will and only have 3 fireballs and 3 lightning bolts each day. There's no rhyme or reason for that, they just do. So using up the limited spells from Cornugon form isn't really meaningful contrasted with say the 3/day earthquake or mass charm that a Solar gets.

Worse, while some Supernatural Abilities are continuous buffs (like the Chronotyrin double action bullshit), other Supernatural Abilities are fire-and-forget (like a Phoenix's "win D&D" or a Zodar's Rush of Strength or Alter Reality). It doesn't even matter if you force the player to keep a memory of which bullshit abilities he has cranked through when the monster book pile has gotten thick enough.

If a Druid has made his 1 wish as an Air Element Pit Fiend this year he'll just use his Fire Element Pit Fiend wish today.

-Username17

Apparently, the monsters at higher levels are more kick-ass than the characters, what with all their at-wills, wishing, and other souped up stuff.

[Neeek]

1186692480[/unixtime]] that means one'd have to make the highest-level invocations, though.

Only if you get that high. If the game ends before the Warlock hits 17th level, which is likely in most games, then there would be no need to make anything.

[JonSetanta]

Neeek: Yep. The best stuff should mostly arrive or begin to become availible as valid, frequent tactics around level 5 and up IMO.

[Bigode]

Frank, do you have any ideas for finishing the fire mage when you have the time?

[JonSetanta]

Wish these were in Tomes, as I've stated elsewhere. Forgot they existed until just a few minutes ago.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

I prefer the "get a Sphere" system of eventually gaining some 20 unlimited use (well, 5x/day for the Gate-styles) SLAs versus the idea of getting 110. Just for shear bookkeeping.

Also, Frank, I feel like no one would ever actually use the Eldritch Bolt for your warlock. They have so many other better options that they don't have to bother. One of the reasons I like the flavor of the Sphere-Warlock (even if it's underpowered for a Tome game) is because it keeps the "throw fire" action as a half-decent backup ability that gets used every once in a while. Also the MAD of your bolts makes them even more undesirable:

Also, if you are playing a Fire Mage or Sphere-lock, you have a reasonable suggestion for feats to take. Sniper, Point Blank Shot, and the Hiding skill feat are all solid character-shaping choices. Your 110-SLA Warlock seems to have ultimate power without adding in any feat choices. DMM Clerics clerics still have to make that choice, Druids still take Fast Wildshape or Natural Spell or whatever, but I can't come up with anything to augment your Warlock.

I think I would be happier if your warlock got something like 10 paths where only 1-2 of them got to be highest level at level 20, not that you are out to please me. At least then you could steal the abilities straight from the Sor/Wiz list and keep track of them better.

[JonSetanta]

Spherelock.. heheh.

True tho, not all of them should have Eldritch Blast or similar. Would be easy to make a "Witch" adaptation out of this simply by changing the name.

[Surgo]

Bump up for reference and...

I'm putting the Spherelock into the Tome pdf as we speak. What about the "pathlock", though? Anyone have ideas on what sort of spells we can add to the various paths to complete them? There are so many spells in D&D, even the more obscure ideas should be able to have a full path progression.

[JonSetanta]

In retrospect, Ceilingcat's 'lock is more of a Spherelock.
This thing is a Pathlock, since the Paths operate differently (and incompletely, how sad)
I also prefer Ceilingcat's version. The Paths here work strangely, ilke with the Enhance Paths interaction (needs to be simpler) although it is nice to have invocations at will rather than x/day.

My suggestion is to make each Path diverse, with fewer lists to acquire but more options in each. Not everything needs to operate on the Domain/Sphere limited scale.
And no more Enhance Paths; the Paths will advance on their own with caster level.

[Bigode]

I was always fairly sure one could TWF fire bursts and normal one-handed weaponry, but now I come across TWFing fire bursts and rays of light. That happens to invent a new brand of awesome (if actually valid - something I wonder about as well), but might be too much. Thoughts?

[CatharzGodfoot]

The Spherelock is a great addition to TToA (The Tome of Awesome), but I think it could use a bit of a face lift. For one, the second level gives nothing except +1d6 eldritch blast to a straight spherelock. A bit of fire resistance could be useful at that point. A bonus feat would probably be going too far.

You could throw in some honest blast invocations, in the form of a selectable list. This would either include or augment the existing ones. Alternate energy types, setting people on fire, lowering SR...

I was always fairly sure one could TWF fire bursts and normal one-handed weaponry, but now I come across TWFing fire bursts and rays of light. That happens to invent a new brand of awesome (if actually valid - something I wonder about as well), but might be too much. Thoughts?

I don't think there's an 'offhand' ray of fire or eyebeam. If it worked, however, it would be very powerful.

[Bigode]

TToA (The Tome of Awesome)

Bad name.

The Spherelock is a great addition to TToA (The Tome of Awesome), but I think it could use a bit of a face lift. For one, the second level gives nothing except +1d6 eldritch blast to a straight spherelock. A bit of fire resistance could be useful at that point. A bonus feat would probably be going too far.

If you do manage to get revision from Cielingcat, please try with Koumei next. Though I'm ... not actually seeing the problem with starting fiendish similarities off with one such feat - mind explaining?

You could throw in some honest blast invocations, in the form of a selectable list. This would either include or augment the existing ones. Alternate energy types, setting people on fire, lowering SR...

Hm, one could say in its favor that it's simple. Not my personal preference as far things I wanna play, but might be valuable given some players, for various reasons (note also that "magical" characters tend to be on the high end of complexity, so simplicity in one of them might be especially valuable). Though I'm not saying I'm sure it's a bad idea, and I'd definitely love it if any class could be converted from simple to complex without changing the concept represented much, but I guess that's a pipe dream ...

I don't think there's an 'offhand' ray of fire or eyebeam. If it worked, however, it would be very powerful.

Hm, you have 2 weapons. Do you think the fact that none's allocated to a literal hand means you can't TWF? Possibly right and surely better for balance, of course ...

[CatharzGodfoot]

I don't think there's an 'offhand' ray of fire or eyebeam. If it worked, however, it would be very powerful.

Hm, you have 2 weapons. Do you think the fact that none's allocated to a literal hand means you can't TWF? Possibly right and surely better for balance, of course ...

You also get into the realm of 'attack action abilities' vs. 'weapons', which is fuzzy in the rules. Remember that Weapon Focus apparently requires a special exception to apply to 'touch attacks'. A supernatural ability that allows you to make ranged touch attacks is by no means a 'weapon' in any normal sense.

The most RAW ruling I can come up with is that when you make an attack or full attack action (possibly using your supernatural attack), you can make the appropriate number of off-hand attacks using an actual off-hand weapon as well.

[Bigode]

I think there's no reason for "Weaponlike Spells" in Complete Shit not apply to Sp and Su abilties as well, if it's assumed it worked decently with spells in the first place. Not to say we necessarily disagree. And your reading of TWF seems to be the most defensible for many reasons. What about the spherelock, though?