Alternate Death rules

[SphereOfFeetMan]

Yo. The following was posted in another thread by K:

What does this mean for an RPG like DnD? I don't think you should be able to die involuntarily unless its wicked dramatic (swallowed by dinosaur, fell into lava, decapitated in a coup de grace, soul swallowed by cursed artifact, etc).

However, if someone beats you in combat, you do fall down into a coma. Maybe you wake up after a healing potion is forced down your throat and you have a never-healing chest wound that weeps blood or the potion didn't heal the lost eye the arrow went through.

And resurrection needs to be equally dramatic to match those dramatic deaths. If you got swallowed by a dinosaur, maybe you need to appease the Old Lizard King god so he'll let you be hatched from a lizard egg as a scaly version of yourself or be reborn in the Fires of the Phoenix's Aerie with eyes that burn forevermore.

Small deaths like "oops, I seem to have been on the wrong side of that Fireball" or "that gobbo just fucking shivved me" need small remedies like healing potions.

Seriously guys...this is DnD. If we can posit the existence of sex demons and planes of Elemental Vacuum, then I think we can figure out a narratively delicious mid-ground between skill-testing and death, and plot arcs and Pretty Princess Dress-up.

Goal: The point of this thread is to create alternate rules for character death. This is just brainstorming, so I have listed some terms/questions/ideas which people can respond to. Pick out any you like and state why you think the rules should go one way or another.

Heroic Destiny: The more powerful you are, the more destiny is intertwined with your fate. When you are capable of slaying Hezrou by yourself, your Destiny scoffs at being stopped by a stock Gobbo. Death does not have the same definition, the same ending. There are different levels of death and different levels of revivification required for death. Being killed by a Gobbo would require a healing potion, being killed by a commensurate opponent requires a ritual, and being killed by Mighty Demon requires a quest into hell to revive you.

Death Mark: When you are revived you receive a mark which manifests itself dependant upon the nature of your death.


How many degrees of death are there? 3? Small death, death, Great death? (Killing blow struck by an opponent more than 2 levels lower than you, an opponent up to +/- 2 levels different from you, an opponent 3 or more levels higher than you?)

How is degree of death decided? By opponent, by DM fiat, by situation?

How difficult is it for the party to revive you? Does it take an action, a few minutes, an hour, a day, an adventure, a quest, a campaign?

Is there a Final Death, which means that someone can’t be resurrected? Is there a ritual for Final Death? Is the difficulty of the Ritual of Final Death dependant upon your Heroic Destiny?

What is the level of your death when:
You are level 12, coup de graced in your sleep by level 1 gobbo and fed to his pigs? (body destroyed)
You are level 12, hit for 95% of your hp by a Pit Fiend, and then a gobbo gets the killing blow?
You are level 12, whittled for 95% of your hp by an army of gobbos, then a Pit Fiend gets the killing blow?

What happens when you are killed by a critical hit?

Are Death Marks you receive upon being revived always negative? Or sometimes positive, or both?

Are Death Marks just visual story fluff or a game mechanic?

If a game mechanic, are they +/- to your numbers? Or do they inhibit/add to your abilities?

Do multiple deaths reduce your effective Heroic Destiny?

Is there a chart for possible Death Marks, or by DM Fiat?

Other?

[Dean]

Hmmmm, while I think that permanent death should certainly be possible for a character I agree that the system as it stands needs a lot of work. And while I won't try to tackle the entire problem myself I will put forth some help in an area that I've already worked on quite a bit.

I was always unsatisfied with the "Die once, lose one level" garbage. It's boring and it's silly. So not long ago I created a system where upon a character's revivication they recieve 1 roll apiece on 2 "Death Effects" tables I've created. The first table gives them something I call a "nega-feat", which is functionally similar to the Unearthed Arcana flaws. So one character might roll a -6 to initiative and become very sluggish after their death while another may recieve a -4 to one of their maxed out skills and become unable to muster the same mastery of it they could before death. The other table has a list of 20 different side effects that are mostly for roleplaying benefit although they are all slightly negative in play. For instance one player might have their hair become entirely white, while another might get sudden uncontrolable nosebleeds, while yet another may be nearly perpetually thirsty. Regardless of the "Death Effects" rolled the character is rid of them next time they gain a level. The only time this is not true is if a character dies multiple times in a single level, wherein they have the option to remove any two (of the 4 or more depending on how many times they've died) of the effects plaguing them.

The end result was a death system that my players enjoy interacting with but still greatly want to avoid. I considered it one of my better houserules and if you felt any of it had merit then you may use it in whatever facet you like.

[ckafrica]

Well should we give character's a set amount of "avoid death by the skin of teeth" events they can automatically activate after a lapsed time after death?

After the fight you shake off the rubble of the collapsed building the dragon through you into and say "jeez that was a close one". Get patched up by the cleric and continue on. Say you get 10 in your character's carrier and when you're out, well you're out.

We could make it even a bit more fun and a have a minor permanent injury chart to roll on

[Surgo]

I think we can avoid the dumb AD&D style permanent injury charts that you're forced to roll on and just let the players do with it as they will.

[Dean]

I think we can avoid the dumb AD&D style permanent injury charts that you're forced to roll on and just let the players do with it as they will.

If that was to my post then I feel that you have either not read it fully or misunderstood it. In addition I don't understand "let the players do with it as they will": To what are you referring?

[Surgo]

There was that post directly above mine that said...

We could make it even a bit more fun and a have a minor permanent injury chart to roll on

[Fwib]

As far as death marks go, if you're doing a 'Good' campaign, coming back from death might give you access to powers of death or moral ambiguity - so people who exploit the death mark to acquire 'Grave Touch' or 'CantThinkOfANameEvilPower' are those whose character concept includes this sort of corruption of morals by the violation of the natural order of things (staying dead is normal, but players just won't stay down)