Battles of the Star Angels and Space Devils

[the_taken]

1196976625[/unixtime]]I was curious if they did or didn't. Yes it's useful, but since I don't watch Gundam anything, I was going by a tidbit someone mentioned years ago and not sure if it's true.

Okeedokee...

------- Weapon Madness

I've arbitrarily decided apon a leveling up method for Tps, E in the B, and Echarge.

Lvl E and Tps theory

Code: Select all

E+	Max E	 Tps	OC[br][br]2d6 (7)	20	   3	 5[br]2d6	22	   4	 6[br]2d6	24	   5	 6[br]3d6(11)	27	   6	 7[br]3d6	29	   7	 7[br]3d6	31	   8	 8[br][br]4d6(14)	33	  10	 8[br]4d6	35	  11	 9[br]4d6	37	  12	 9[br]5d6(18)	40	  13	10[br]5d6	42	  14	10[br]5d6	44	  15	11[br][br]6d6(21)	46	  17	11[br]6d6+1	48	  18	12[br]6d6+2	50	  19	12[br]6d6+3	53	  20	13[br]6d6+4	55	  21	13[br]6d6+5	57	  22	14[br][br]6d6+6	59	  24	14[br]6d6+7	61	  25	15[br]6d6+8	63	  26	15[br]6d6+9	66	  27	16[br]6d6+10	68	  28	16[br]6d6+11	72	  29	17

Let's see how Tps translates to weapons and damage.

29Tps gun idea 1
Base 1 Tps for a one handed gun (28Tps remaining)
-2Tps to make it two handed (30Tps)
shoots once for 31E (30x 1Tps for +4Dmg +1E consumption)
deals 124 damage per shot
recoil penalty of 6
limit of three shots per turn
optimal range of any 6 continuous hex
absolute range of 0 to 18 hex

F-f-fuck... That's too high for one attack, (imagine three)

Alright. Rule change: The "+4 damage, and consumes 1E more per shot" is line now "+2 damage, and consumes 1E more per shot" making the:

29Tps gun idea 1 revised
Base 1 Tps for a one handed gun (28Tps remaining)
-2Tps to make it two handed (30Tps)
shoots once for 31E (30x 1Tps for +4Dmg +1E consumption)
deals 64 damage per shot
recoil penalty of 6
limit of three shots per turn
optimal range of any 6 continuous hex
absolute range of 0 to 18 hex

Ok, that's fine. Now for:

29Tps gun idea 2
Base 1 Tps for a one handed gun (28Tps remaining)
-2Tps to make it two handed (30Tps)
shoots once for 1E
deals 22 damage per shot (18x +1 damage upgrade)
recoil penalty of 0 (6x -1 recoil penalty for 12 Tps)
limit of three shots per turn
optimal range of any 6 continuous hex
absolute range of 0 to 18 hex

making 3 attacks at zero recoil isn't too bad

29Tps gun idea 3
Base 1 Tps for a one handed gun (28Tps remaining)
-2Tps to make it two handed (30Tps)
shoots once for 1E
deals 4 damage per shot
recoil penalty of 0 (6x -1 recoil penalty for 12 Tps)
limit of 21 shots per turn (18x +1 shot per turn)
optimal range of any 6 continuous hex
absolute range of 0 to 18 hex

84 damage in one turn is a little excessive, but the sheer amount of E required, and the number of rolls, ugh. It's bad gameplay not meta. Limit of 10 shots on any gun, and get some other upgrades.

I'm not worried about range increases, since these weapons are not AoEs.

[the_taken]

------- In battle healing -------

Repair device:
It's like a gun, save for the fact that it has a range of 0-1 hex which can't be upgraded, and you don't need to roll to hit. Essentially giant roll of band-aids on a tape dispenser.

For 1tps you get an item that takes up a hand hard point.
By expending 1e, you can restore up to 6 armor points to any single hit location within 0-1 hex in the recharge phase, other than the side that's holding the device (RD in the left hand can't repair the left arm, or left torso hit-locations)
The device has enough material to restore up to 30 armor points.

Upgrades:
1tps:
+2 armor points are restored per use, +1E per use
+1 armor points are restored per use

3tps:
+30 to the number or armor points that can be restored by this device, but required the use of another hand hard point to be used.

4tps:
the device uses up the shoulder hard point and can repair any hit location


BFS:
Big Fvcking Shields, in case a regular armor upgrade is not good enough. Shields cover certain hit locations, taking damage instead of them.

When a hit location covered by a shield is hit by an attack, reduce the shield's armor points before the hit hit location's.

2tps: Small Shield: uses a hand hard point. covers the arm that holds it, the attached side torso and centre torso hit locations. Has a base of 6 armor points.

5tps: Large Shield: uses a hand and adjacent shoulder hard points. covers the arm that holds it, the leg on the same side, the head, and all of the torso hit locations. Has a base 10 armor points.

10tps: Star Wall: uses a hand and both shoulder hard points. Covers all of the hit locations. Has a base of 14 armor points

Upgrades:
is this necessary?

[the_taken]

Because shooting running around shooting at stuff, and rolling the same set of dice over and over again gets stale, I'm coming up with magical stunts you can perform.

Ideas:

You have a halo, which you set to a known mode during the Energy phase. As you gain levels, you can have more than one halo effect going on, and you'll learn more halo modes.
Then there's spells, which replace either the first, second or both shooting phases. They'll probably do something like teleport, or energy waves, or telekinesis.

I'm open to ideas.

[the_taken]

Halo concepts:
Low level mechs only get to have one halo effect running at a time, while the highest level mechs can have up to four.
One that will generate 1d6E at the end of the turn. This one can be activate multiple times.
One that increases the mech to-hit score by 4. Can only be used once.
One that increases the mechs attack bonus by 4. Can only be used once.
One that will boost the mechs initiative by 1d6 during the movement and shooting phases. Can only be used once.

Spell concepts:
Only available to team monster is psychic attacks. Instead of using their weapon, the mech expends energy to unleash a devastating attack that bypasses the material rules and forces a Russian Roulette style SoD.
For 10E, a space devil can targets a single hex, and every mech the space devila can target in that hex makes a sanity check. Missiles and starships don't.
For 30E, a space devil can affect everything it can target in a strait line of hexes outwards from itself.
For 60E, a space devil can affect everything it can target.

[JonSetanta]

By Roulette, do you mean that the monster has a risk of maiming their own brain with a single blow?

[the_taken]

No, the target. Psychic attacks are totally unfair and designed to screw the players if they try to put up with them.

"Ack! My brain is melting." "ZOMFG! Shoot the mage! Shoot the Mage!" "Oh NO! Ick! I r no smert no moar!"

[the_taken]

My think tank has produced goods:

Halos ideas
Add Stun to spells, costs extra E
Add slow to spells, costs extra E
Hardpoint - another hardpoint for a weapon
constant damaging aura
regen
add to stealth
decrease stealth to stuff in radius


Spell ideas
Slow spell
Stun spell
Engine Failure - fuel line freeze or something
Homing Laser - attack that auto-hits
Teleport up to 1hex per 2/levels (1E per hex traveled)
Radar Ghost - creates a blip on the radar "over there"
Vanish - when detected reset
Force Blink - teleport target
Baleful NOS - force enemy to move 8hex forward, in strait line.
Bullet Storm - AoE attack, auto hits
Force Jam - single target ranged weapon cannot fire in next two shooting phases. you may only cast this once per turn.
Self-destruct - character is now perma-dead, deals damage equal remaining E + OC in hex radius remaining E + OC.

[JonSetanta]

Don't forget a chaff-like effect, resembling a D&D Fog Cloud, to use with Radar Ghost. Spore Cloud? Gas?
Wow, would I ever so abuse that...

[CatharzGodfoot]

For healing, it seems that a small horde of repair-bots would work best flavor-wise (despite the fantastical nature of the game). In that case you might as well literally have 'repair guns' which you can fire at your allies or enemies (covering them in a small swarm of the 'bots, either for reconstruction or deconstruction).

[the_taken]

In flavour? Sure is!
Balanced? Hell if I know. I'm just gonna throw stuff around 'till the game is full, then play test it with a group.

[the_taken]

Looking back, the leveling up and power scale of E in the B and Tps and shit are totally arbitrary and seriously make no sense beyond "x+y=b" , "x-1+y=b^2" and "x+z+y-42= 2i "

Screw level ups. Instead, I'm I'm just going to have every player have points they can spend to create their character, kinda like having an army in table top wargames. They're will be different mechs with different power levels, but they'll be close enough that tactical superiority will allow somebody against a character that just has more points.

No more retardedly increasing E and B and Tps. As a player, you have points to build your mech, and usualy the space devils will have a team with mechs made from the same amount of points. This will also allow people to play the game for just the tactical part, and I'm cool with that. You can do that with D&D too.

[JonSetanta]

Yeah, now that you mention it, level-less would fit this concept better.

From what you propose, the options would instead be somewhere about...
- 1 massively powerful hero/"boss"
- a band of elites/ a tough to kill assault squadron
- a flight of loyal pilots/ a swarm of brain-eating monstrosity mooks

[the_taken]

Man, I could totally set this up like a Wargame, where there's a core rulebook with everything you need to play, bloated with dozens of pages of colourful pictures demonstrating paint schemes, hundreds of pages of flavour text, and even more pages of ink drawings. Then I'd print out a faction's specific rule book once a month and totally charge you money for it.

Star Angel Factions:
Eden Guard
Nimbus Enterprises
White Desert Raiders

Space Devil Faction:
Soul Hungry Aliens
Mutant Space Chickens

Plus Dark Star Pirates

But I really should focus on game mechanics first.

[the_taken]

Since I'm going with factions and abilities now, I'm going to come up with a list of abilities and give every faction the same set of basic abilities, and every faction certain extra abilities.

Swarms: Every faction has access to at least one type of swarm unit. Swarm units cost very few points, and have no upgrades, but come in very large numbers. For roleplaying games the PCs can't have them as their character since they lack the tactical depth to be any fun for long.
Example units from this category are Vampire Space Chicks of the Mutant Space Chickens and Marauder Class Fighters of the Dark Star Pirates.

Mechs and Cruisers: These are typically what we'll have the players use for their characters. Every faction has at least one type of mech and some type of starship that's the standard chassis for which upgrades are then purchased and added to make them a formidable tactical option. Mechs and Cruisers have specific locations for which a set list of upgrades can be selected, so the limit to how powerful a mech can be is not solely based on points.
A more expensive chassis is usualy going to be a more durable chassis that can be given more potent upgrades, like bigger guns.

Event Bosses: A really, really big mech or ship, most likely with it's own gravitational field. These things are bookkeeping nightmares, so regularly playing with these is going to tax your sanity, but they're fun to fight against and the perfect climax to a campaign due to their epic level. Think Unicron.

[the_taken]

I decree that the point value of a mech chassis is to be based apon its armor points, the amount of energy it generates, and it's battery size:

The first method: 2AP is worth 1Tps, making the sample mech from the first page worth 108 points.

A second method to determin Tps/AP is based apon the likely hood that a hit location is going to suffer damage. Meaning AP on the centre torso is worth seven times the Tps of a head AP due to the fact that the centre torso is 7 times likely to be hit. This means the sample mech is worth at least 248 Tps. Opinion?

2 (1) head 6ap
3 (2) L arm 6ap
4 (3) L arm 6ap
5 (4) L leg 7ap
6 (5) L torso 7ap
7 (6) C torso 8ap
8 (5) R torso 7ap
9 (4) R leg 7ap
10 (3) R arm 6ap
11 (2) R arm 6ap
12 (1) torso 8ap

C torso 7x8
L torso 5x7
R torso 5x7
L leg 4x7
R leg 4x7
L arm 5x6
R arm 5x6
head 1x6

----------

E generation and capacity should be based apon the power of the weapons. So we'll determine weapon power and cost before charging points for energy.

-------

Rocket Launcher tag is the base line for the game, but infinite shots with a slowly decreasing chance to hit with so many attacks is crazy, exciting, and easily leading to frequent character death. So weapon systems are to cost an arm and a leg. But should upgrading your mech's systems be able to escalate to costing more than the mech itself?

We do know that we don't want to have an over abundance of E to play with. Increasing E increases complexity and means more time is spent per individual mech.

-------

Instead of having an arbitrary limit on the number of shots per round a weapon can have as a baseline, infinite ammo is now the default.

Using the 4d6 attack roll , the minimum possible roll is 4, and the maximum is 24. The starting to-hit score of the average mech is 10. So the first shot has a ~10% miss chance.
The base recoil of weapons is 6, simulating a 16 to-hit score, so the second shot has a ~66% miss chance. (How's my math? 1-555-2phi arr)
Third shot has a ~99% miss chance.
So we can safely assume that people will only make 4 shots per round with a single gun, and the statistical average damage being ~43%
Having an average hit location AP of 7. Mechs should be taking out an equal's hit location in a one round barrage of fire. So sample weapon damage for the sample mech shall be 4.
With 4 shots, that becomes 16 damage, and at 43% efficiency it becomes a little less 7 damage, just enough to take out one hit location. But that's just the statistical average over 4 shots. The chance of hitting the same location twice is on average worse than one in six, and two shots only has an average efficiency of ~81% so the likely hood of taking out one hit location is about the same.

So we'll make the base damage of "one-handed guns" 4, and "two-handed" guns 8.

-------

All mecha get the basic energy shield ability for free. If the mech has 3E allocated to this ability, they may negate the first 2d6 damage that round.

Every mech has the ability to move 6hex for free. As a rule, 1Tps for a 1hex increase. This means that the 3h0ex teleport ability/upgrade costs 3Tps.
It now costs E to move, 2E for 1hex, so now moving and shooting for everything you've got is not the best option.

-------

Questions:
Which Tps for AP calculation be used to determine the cost of a mech chassis?

How much Tps should these weapons cost?

Second, how much E should firing a single 4dmg shot cost? 1E, making it more efficient to attack than use energy shields? 2E to make it about the same?

Should the 8dmg weapon be just as energy efficient as two 4dmg weapons?

How many rounds should a mech with only the cheapest weapon as an upgrade be able to maintain doing everything? That is, moving the full 6 hex for 3E, shields for another 3E and shooting 4 shots (4E or 8E)?

[the_taken]

You pose some difficult questions, Taken, but I'll give them a shot.

1203454871[/unixtime]]Questions:
Which Tps for AP calculation be used to determine the cost of a mech chassis?

The more complicated one. Not only is it more refined in calculating effectiveness, but it is also harder to reverse engineer.
This means that people who don't see this thread will have a hard time making stuff up and become more reliant on you. The pros and cons of this situation can take you in either direction.

Second, how much E should firing a single 4dmg shot cost? 1E, making it more efficient to attack than use energy shields? 2E to make it about the same?

You came up with a solid idea earlier. 1 energy for 4 damage to compensate for 1d6 DR from the shielding wings. You've reinstated the shield wings, so why not go back to that system.

Should the 8dmg weapon be just as energy efficient as two 4dmg weapons?

Yes.

How many rounds should a mech with only the cheapest weapon as an upgrade be able to maintain doing everything? That is, moving the full 6 hex for 3E, shields for another 3E and shooting 4 shots (4E or 8E)?

Maybe you should look at it another way. If two mechs with the simplest guns walk ten paces away from each other, then turn around and blast away, what is the average amount of time it takes for one to be taken out? That's should be the number of rounds you can sustain just shooting the one basic gun, assuming moving the maximum un-upgraded movement grants net-zero battery depletion.

That means 4e per turn for, ~5 rounds. So if a mech can move 6hex for 3e, that means the basic mech generates 3e per turn, then has a maximum battery of 5, so shooting 4 shots a round can be sustained for 5 rounds, before only pot shots can be taken, or the mechs start to overheat trying to out shoot their opponent.

How much Tps should these weapons cost?

This is the hardest one, so I'm answering it last. 1Tps times the average AP the weapon is expected to remove per round, times the difference between 10 and the average number of rounds that the weapon takes the sample opponent out in. So the basic example hand-gun deals an a average 7dmg per round, times (10 minus 5) 5 rounds of average mech kill time.
So the sample one-handed gun costs 35 Tps, and the two-handed riffle costs (14x(10-3)) 98 Tps, since it can down a mech in an average of three rounds. Remember that the riffle requires 2E per shot, so unloading all your energy into this to try and take out one opponent right now will 'cause you to explode.

[the_taken]

Replying to myself was weird. In fact, it's confusing me right now.

I don't think I'll do this again anytime soon.

--0---0--

While for a battle game factions would have preset mechs with X armor points and E gen and what not, from the role player's and designer's stand point a very fine tuned creation system has to be made for the game to be balanced and playable. Obviously.

As such, mech will use the very complicated formula for deterring how many points it is worth. 1 AP is worth 1 Tps times the likely hood that it's going to be hit out of 36. So a center torso AP is worth 7Tps.... I've explained this already.

This formula can then be used to determine how many points a shield is worth.

As explained in the previous post, a weapon costs 1 Tps times the average amount of damage it deals in one round, times the expected number of rounds the weapon is expected to take out the basic mech subtracted from ten.

Now Energy. 1 E has the potential to remove 4 AP from a hit location. So while this is only potential, the exact efficiency of a weapon is based apon it's many attributes.
On the basic mech, 3E also has the potential to reduce up to 12 points of damage, which literally translates to having 12AP that round. So while the shield ability on average will only produce an expected 6 extra AP, that half, which is close the basic gun's 47% efficiency. This means that 1E is worth an average of 2 AP.
1 AP is worth a single Tps on it's own, so 1E is worth 2 Tps.
So now a battery is worth two times it's maximum E in Tps.
Since I'm going with 10 rounds being the comparative combat time, energy generated is worth ten times the E in the B. Therefore the basic mech's Battery is worth 10 Tps, and it's generation ability is worth 30 Tps.
The shield ability is worth an average of 7 extra AP across all of the hit locations, and can be kept up for theoretically, say 10 rounds? So the basic shield ability is worth 70 Tps.

Since we determined that 1E is worth 2Tps, and that since 2E allows a mech to move 1hex...
Let's reverse that. 1E let's you move 2hex, so therefore 1hex move is worth 1Tps, again.
Since the basic mech can move six hex, and the comparable combat length is 10 rounds, 1hex of movement is worth 10 Tps.
Now the basic mech's movement is worth 60Tps.

Adding everything up, the basic mech is worth 418Tps before adding guns and stuff. And with two of those hand guns it comes to 488 Tps.

Actually, let's increase Egen by 2, and battery by 5.

So it's 458 Tps for the basic Mech, plus the cost of weapons Okay.

--0---0--

Swarm Units! The goblins of BotSASD.

We don't want them to be too simple, let's give them hit location like mechs. Say 3? Core, body, edge. And they have AP too. But how much? 4 across each. Following the mech creation rules, that means that they'll be worth 144 Tps right there. They'll move about 6hex, so there's another 60 points (204).

Now should these things have to worry about E? Nah... Discount units that have flawlessly balanced energy systems. Won't even charge money for them.
Shields? No.
Weapons... the basic hand gun? Sure.

So the sample swarm unit is worth 239 Tps, has three hit locations, and has the basic pee shooter. Can also move and shoot at the same time without exploding!

Hit location :: Die roll on 1d6 :: effect
Core :: 1 :: removing all AP from this location destroys the unit outright
Body :: 2-3 :: removing all AP from this location renders the unit immobile
Edge :: 4-5 :: removing all AP from this location prevents the unit from using it's weapons
Glance :: 6 :: remove AP evenly from other hit locations. the unit cannot perform any action 'till the recharge phase.

--0---0--

Thoughts?

[JonSetanta]

Was going to give this to Judging Eagle for his own angels project but can't find the thread. -__-;

So here you go, Taken.

http://www.havencomm.com/~wwin/who-choirs.html

I believe pieces of this ended up in the Wiki entry on angels (archangels? seraph only?), too.

Don't take it as truth, exactly, but more of an inspiration for the personalities (albeit warped) of the alien species and forms humans must fight.

[the_taken]

1204613781[/unixtime]]Was going to give this to Judging Eagle for his own angels project but can't find the thread. -__-;

So here you go, Taken.

http://www.havencomm.com/~wwin/who-choirs.html

I believe pieces of this ended up in the Wiki entry on angels (archangels? seraph only?), too.

Don't take it as truth, exactly, but more of an inspiration for the personalities (albeit warped) of the alien species and forms humans must fight.

Nice. Could be useful.

[the_taken]

Resistances, Special Abilities and Status Conditions
Some weapons will either have a different mechanics (missiles), or have special rule that triggers when they hit.

Obliterating- The weapon is so powerful that it has a chance to cripple anything it hits. A mech hit by a weapon with this property must resist obliteration or the affected hit location looses all of its AP.

Burning- The weapon's hits leave a dangerous residue that will continue to cause damage over time. A mech hit by a weapon with this property must resist DoTs or the affected hit location looses an additional AP during each subsequent recharge phase.

Stunning- The weapon's hits are particularity forceful. A mech hit by a weapon with this property must resist stun or looses function of the affected hit location (as if destroyed) until the recharge phase.

Draining- The weapon disrupts energy flow. A mech hit by a weapon with this property must resist drain or all of the energy in the subsystems of the affected hit location disappears.

Piercing- The weapon has magna-spiritual properties of psionic origin, or is crafted of a bullshitium alloy. Damage dealt by a weapon with this property is not reduced by energy shields.

are some examples. Any suggestions?

I'm thinking of having resistance work like armor does in warhammer. When subject to an attack, you must resist being wounded. Entities have a resistance score; a number between 3 and 12, or "-" representing no resistance. When at risk of a status condition, 2d6 is rolled and compared against the defender's resistance score. If it is equal to or greater than, the defender doesn't suffer the status condition.

Thoughts?

[the_taken]

Halo Options are chosen during the Energy Phase. Normally one per character.

Halo Option: Charismatic Leader: During the Regroup Phase, all allies' Ego Score lowers 1 point (to a minimum of 1)

Halo Option: Concentrated Firing: During the Regroup Phase, pick an enemy this character hit with a ranged weapon in the First Shooting Phase of this round. During the Second Shooting Phase, this character's allies gain a +2 bonus to their attack rolls to hit this enemy with a ranged attack.

[the_taken]

Character Abilities:
Halo Option: When you activate this halo, choose an ally. This ally has initiative 10 during both Shooting Phases.

Character's Mech Upgrades:

Fighting Cockpit: When this mech's centre torso has 0AP, during the next Initiative Phase a swarm fighter of the apropriate faction appears in the hex that this mech previously occupied.

Self-destructomatic: When this mech's centre torso has 0AP, everything withing 5hex must resist splash or loose 1AP from every hit location.

Weapon Abilities:

Immobilizing: When first hit by this weapon during the shooting phase, the target must resists Stun of be unable to use any form of movement during the next turn.